Could this be the beginning of a meaningful discussion on assault weapons in the USA?

[DRD]

I am not going to agree/disagree with the US gun laws. Too many opinions out there. However, if an idiot decides to shoot a bunch of people, I personally don't think a lot can stop he/she from doing so in the 5-10 min they execute their desire. Look at Ft Hood lunatic. He manages to kill 13 people on a military base with probably the most qualified individuals to fend him off. So, arming teachers or having a couple security offices at schools may "help" but won't deter someone getting their shots in. Need to bring back the musket

Military bases on home ground are pretty much gun free zones.

 

[snopro]

Good points. Some folks believe its better/more socially acceptable/progressive to cower in fear when evil comes calling than to defend themselves. And get ready for more name calling.

I am wired one way. Force must be met with equal or greater force. I puke in my mouth everytime I hear the left say we need to re program these people and read them poetry crap. You wanna shoot kids? Prepare to meet your maker. No one will ever change my mind so on with the name calling.

 

[eclipse1966]

years ago I visited a friend at the San Diego naval base and seen a lot of guns at the entrance and other places. But I did a quick google and yes they are gun free zones except for qualified individuals such as military policy and guards.

Military bases on home ground are pretty much gun free zones.

 

[ATV Rancher]

I apologize if I missed something already posted.

First off, Stephen Colbert has no credibility. I won't watch that pos.

Secondly. The sick in the head dipfawk shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase any weapon, but the back ground check system failed. The FBI, and in other cases, the military, are not reporting and sharing information properly. Probably too busy looking for some gotcha Russian collusion. The FBI had completely gone to hell under Obama, Cumey, etal, and guaranteed there is a new vitalization going on at this moment. Thank you Donald Trump.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ip-parkland-school-shooter-suspect/345571002/

Personally, in light of all of this, I support school choice/vouchers more than ever. It would be great to take a kid out of some half-assed gun free zone public school, and enroll them somewhere where some punk ass killer would get their brains blown out by a trained veteran, or someone at least capable and willing to protect them with their life. Not the joke of a circle jerk that we saw with this last murder spree.

https://youtu.be/Nj03yEwF0HA

 

[S.W.A.T.]

Fair enough on the mall cop comment. Just going by what was posted by others. Your argument on stopping a bad guy with a gun with a good guy with a gun being unacceptable confuses me? How do you stop him? Give him a hug and read poetry to him? He needs to be taken down and if someone trained can get to him before the cops get there and wait for backup then that's what it needs to be. I'm not saying this is you but I get a kick out of people that say ban semi auto guns and only have bolt action and it will save lives as people will escape while he reloads? Fair enough but heaven help us if a trained gun response is used to save lives while the cops are in the parking lot huddling up to make a plan while kids are getting mowed down?

The whole idea is that the bad guys don't get the gun.

I honestly believe we have a pretty good system here in Canada with regards to firearm legislation. For those who want to legally own guns we have some requirements. First is a course then background checks and references. A system designed to potentially weed out the wrong doers.

Criminals will always have their way and I'm pretty sure most of us here can agree honest gun owners aren't killers. So much could have been done beforehand with what happened in Florida and I would say it was a breakdown of what little system they have. He was clearly a guy that should not have a gun. After colombine "they" painted a picture for use what a mass shooter/shooters would look like. Obviously "they" aren't good profilers. Las Vegas put a different spin in things and I'm sure we will never know what really happened there.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

I am wired one way. Force must be met with equal or greater force. I puke in my mouth everytime I hear the left say we need to re program these people and read them poetry crap. You wanna shoot kids? Prepare to meet your maker. No one will ever change my mind so on with the name calling.

Not really with the poetry and hugs either but perhaps neither is force. If they keep doing the samething over and over and expect different results it's just insane.

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind

 

[SicLoco]

It's pretty simple really, It relies on mental health! If those Yanks had a decent healthcare system then maybe some of these physcopaths would be diagnosed and treated. You're not gonna change the gun situation in the U.S. IMO

 

[ATV Rancher]

It's pretty simple really, It relies on mental health! If those Yanks had a decent healthcare system then maybe some of these physcopaths would be diagnosed and treated. You're not gonna change the gun situation in the U.S. IMO

Yeah, Obamacare is proving damn hard to get rid of...and also most all of them didn't have a dad in their life. Take that into consideration, and take out the nutcases intent on committing jihad, and violent gang bangers (still with no dads) like MS-13 and the problem almost disappears. To be fair, this last killer's adopted father died when he was 5 years old, and his adopted mother couldn't handle him, and all hell broke loose after she died of the flu. There were so many reports against him that it's an unfathomable failure of the system and laws already in place that this actually happened.

 

[collin]

years ago I visited a friend at the San Diego naval base and seen a lot of guns at the entrance and other places. But I did a quick google and yes they are gun free zones except for qualified individuals such as military policy and guards.

Reminds me of the movie Dr. Strangelove, where the President says " Gentlemen, you can't fight in here....this is the War Room".

 

[carguy]

...... the pigs hide outside .......

Wow, classy (as I see Cdnfireman also pointed out). So very uncouth of you Merc63, perhaps you need to go around the block again.

 

[CUSO]

I think, a lot of times that....America's cancer is within.

No terrorist will determine the U.S's demise anymore, They will destroy their own self eventually.

If you fight fire with fire, that's great, but the root of the problem hasn't been solved/addressed.

Some say.. "our children are getting shot"... Well children are shooting children esentially in some cases.

Freedom as one say's it.. Is it really freedom, or is the U.S. a prison within itself? ( in some states)

As for the armed shooters end to their lives... Some are hoping someone ends it for them... Lots do it themselves, Food for thought.

Mental health will play a key, as well as prevention....from the root of all sources.

 

[ATV Rancher]

It is a disgrace........

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968336474818142209

Broward County Sheriff Deputies were reportedly told NOT to enter the school during the shooting unless they had body cameras on, which they did not have.

 

[52weekbreak]

Wonder if they will get this on the agenda come election time?

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisPolitics/videos/1937699876261493/

 

[snopro]

It is a disgrace........

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968336474818142209

Broward County Sheriff Deputies were reportedly told NOT to enter the school during the shooting unless they had body cameras on, which they did not have.

Wow! Pathetic.

 

[Beels]

We can talk about a so-called gun problem in the US, how our laws are supposedly better, then seem to have forgotten about the school shooting in La Loche, SK that took 4 people's lives. People are too focused on the guns. IMO, our biggest problem in society is mental health and the complete lack of attention it gets from ground level and all the way up. Almost every one of these situations, there's red flags that got ignored or the perp slipped through the cracks at one point. I'm not going to pretend to have the answers, but until people quit pretending mental health isn't a huge problem, this is going to continue. You hear stories from people that go looking for help and there's so few professionals available that it's impossible to handle the caseload that's out there.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

We can talk about a so-called gun problem in the US, how our laws are supposedly better, then seem to have forgotten about the school shooting in La Loche, SK that took 4 people's lives. People are too focused on the guns. IMO, our biggest problem in society is mental health and the complete lack of attention it gets from ground level and all the way up. Almost every one of these situations, there's red flags that got ignored or the perp slipped through the cracks at one point. I'm not going to pretend to have the answers, but until people quit pretending mental health isn't a huge problem, this is going to continue. You hear stories from people that go looking for help and there's so few professionals available that it's impossible to handle the caseload that's out there.

Don't think anyone has forgotten the SK shooting but I will say yes that our laws our better. Not only that I truly believe our entire outlook towards each Other is better and the respect we have towards the fellow man vs what takes place south of the line

 

[Mike270412]

Good thing the leadership in this country is so awesome.

I think, a lot of times that....America's cancer is within.

No terrorist will determine the U.S's demise anymore, They will destroy their own self eventually.

If you fight fire with fire, that's great, but the root of the problem hasn't been solved/addressed.

Some say.. "our children are getting shot"... Well children are shooting children esentially in some cases.

Freedom as one say's it.. Is it really freedom, or is the U.S. a prison within itself? ( in some states)

As for the armed shooters end to their lives... Some are hoping someone ends it for them... Lots do it themselves, Food for thought.

Mental health will play a key, as well as prevention....from the root of all sources.

 

[ATV Rancher]

Nikolas Cruz's psychosis ended in a bloody massacre not only because of the stunning incompetence of the Broward County Sheriff's Department. It was also the result of liberal insanity working exactly as it was intended to.

School and law enforcement officials knew Cruz was a ticking time bomb. They did nothing because of a deliberate, willful, bragged-about policy to end the "school-to-prison pipeline." This is the feature part of the story, not the bug part.

If Cruz had taken out full-page ads in the local newspapers, he could not have demonstrated more clearly that he was a dangerous psychotic. He assaulted students, cursed out teachers, kicked in classroom doors, started fist fights, threw chairs, threatened to kill other students, mutilated small animals, pulled a rifle on his mother, drank gasoline and cut himself, among other "red flags."

Over and over again, students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School reported Cruz's terrifying behavior to school administrators, including Kelvin Greenleaf, "security specialist," and Peter Mahmood, head of JROTC.

At least three students showed school administrators Cruz's near-constant messages threatening to kill them -- e.g., "I am going to enjoy seeing you down on the grass," "Im going to watch ypu bleed," "iam going to shoot you dead” — including one that came with a photo of Cruz’s guns. They warned school authorities that he was bringing weapons to school. They filed written reports.

Threatening to kill someone is a felony. In addition to locking Cruz away for a while, having a felony record would have prevented him from purchasing a gun.

All the school had to do was risk Cruz not going to college, and depriving Yale University of a Latino class member, by reporting a few of his felonies -- and there would have been no mass shooting.

But Cruz was never arrested. He wasn't referred to law enforcement. He wasn't even expelled.

Instead, Cruz was just moved around from school to school -- six transfers in three years. But he was always sent back to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in order to mainstream him, so that he could get a good job someday!

The moronic idea behind the "school-to-prison pipeline" is that the only reason so many "black and brown bodies" are in prison is because they were disciplined in high school, diminishing their opportunities. End the discipline and ... problem solved!

It's like "The Wizard of Oz" in reverse. The Wizard told the Scarecrow: You don't need an education, you just need a diploma! The school-to-prison pipeline idiocy tells students: You don't need to behave in high school, you just need to leave with no criminal record!

Of course, killjoys will say that removing the consequences of bad behavior only encourages more bad behavior. But that's not the view of Learned Professionals, who took summer courses at Michigan State Ed School.

In a stroke of genius, they realized that the only problem criminals have is that people keep lists of their criminal activities. It's the list that prevents them from getting into M.I.T. and designing space stations on Mars. Where they will cure cancer.

This primitive, stone-age thinking was made official Broward County policy in a Nov. 5, 2013, agreement titled "Collaborative Agreement on School Discipline."

The first "whereas" clause of the agreement states that "the use of arrests and referrals to the criminal justice system may decrease a student's chance of graduation, entering higher education, joining the military and getting a job."

Get it? It's the arrest -- not the behavior that led to the arrest -- that reduces a student's chance at a successful life. (For example, just look at how much the district's refusal to arrest Nikolas Cruz helped him!)

The agreement's third "whereas” clause specifically cites "students of color" as victims of the old, racist policy of treating criminal behavior criminally.

Say, in the middle of a drive to cut back on the arrest or expulsion of "students of color," how do you suppose the school dealt with a kid named "Nikolas Cruz"? Might there be some connection between his Hispanic last name and the school's abject refusal to do anything about Cruz's repeated criminal behavior?

Just a few months ago, the superintendent of Broward County Public Schools, Robert W. Runcie, was actually bragging about how student arrests had plummeted under his bold leadership.

When he took over in 2011, the district had "the highest number of school-related arrests in the state." But today, he boasted, Broward has "one of the lowest rates of arrest in the state." By the simple expedient of ignoring criminal behavior, student arrests had declined by a whopping 78 percent.

FOOTBALL COACH: "When I took over this team a year ago, we were last in the league in pass defense. Today, we no longer keep that statistic!"

When it comes to spectacular crimes, it's usually hard to say how it could have been prevented. But in this case, we have a paper trail. In the pursuit of a demented ideology, specific people agreed not to report, arrest or prosecute dangerous students like Nikolas Cruz.

These were the parties to the Nov. 5, 2013, agreement that ensured Cruz would be out on the street with full access to firearms:

Robert W. Runcie, Superintendent of Schools

Peter M. Weinstein, Chief Judge of the 17th Judicial Circuit

Michael J. Satz, State Attorney

Howard Finkelstein, Public Defender

Scott Israel, Broward County Sheriff

Franklin Adderley, Chief of the Fort Lauderdale Police Department

Wansley Walters, Secretary of the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice

Marsha Ellison, President of the Fort Lauderdale Branch of the NAACP and Chair of the Juvenile Justice Advisory Board

Nikolas Cruz may be crazy, but the parties to that agreement are crazy, too. They decided to make high school students their guinea pigs for an experiment based on a noxious ideology. The blood of 17 people is on their hands.

 

[morerpmfred]

Isreal has not had a school
Shooting in 20+ years. Terrorists attacks either.
Ever since they armed the teachers.

 

[DaveB]

I think, a lot of times that....America's cancer is within.

No terrorist will determine the U.S's demise anymore, They will destroy their own self eventually.

If you fight fire with fire, that's great, but the root of the problem hasn't been solved/addressed.

Some say.. "our children are getting shot"... Well children are shooting children esentially in some cases.

Freedom as one say's it.. Is it really freedom, or is the U.S. a prison within itself? ( in some states)

As for the armed shooters end to their lives... Some are hoping someone ends it for them... Lots do it themselves, Food for thought.

Mental health will play a key, as well as prevention....from the root of all sources.

It’s the “rats in a cage” syndrome. Nothing to do with laws. Too many people (rats) in a small area (cage) and they kill (eat) each other.
In Canadia we have the same land mass with 1/10th the population....good for a while...but the big urban centers: careful.