Con rods breaking on turbo motors...

[maierch]

I have discussed this with aero and from their findings they have not heard or seen much of con rods breaking... So maybe it just a Cdn thing

I'm sure if you call any turbo manufacturer they would say they haven't heard of rods going out.

I had good luck with my 2013 2200mi and no problems. We'll see how things go with the 2015.

 

[maxwell]

wot rod bust. that must have made a hell of a noise

 

[mctrailboss]

I have taken one out on a 2013 etec. also have a friend that did the same thing. I did it right after turning up the boost but I did have signs of detonation on the piston. My theory is not of torque but that the piston got tight on the cylinder wall. Anyway I replaced the motor and put the boost back to 9lbs which is where it should have stayed with av gas and haven't had an issue since. I had about 5500kms when the motor went.

 

[maxwell]

i have to ask this question. 15,000$ on a sled, 10,000$ on a turbo. is there nothing aftermarket you could throw in for rods before doing all this work and destroying a 4500$ engine.

 

[Bnorth]

i have to ask this question. 15,000$ on a sled, 10,000$ on a turbo. is there nothing aftermarket you could throw in for rods before doing all this work and destroying a 4500$ engine.

there's the sno-x rods but i don't know if they're any tougher.

 

[1100]

Mountain magic has cranks with different rods. Way beefier looking. I can't remember the name of them.

 

[ABMax24]

With any of these turbo kits is there a module that reduces spark advance, particularly in the mid range? My guess is the spark is advanced enough that when on boost the air/fuel charge is pre-ignited putting immense strain on the rods. I would image that ski-doo builds the etec motor with a fair amount of advance to increase mid range power and torque, but with the added energy from boost it puts far more load on the rods than they were designed for.

 

[fredw]

Anyone know who sells or could machine titanuim rods... Drop weight and offer the extra strength we need..

Contacted crower today, to see if they make them for the the doo... Sounds like a few sets were made....

http://www.crower.com/connecting-rods.html?cat=2586

 

[fredw]

Ordered a welded up crank and snowx rods from Jj machinery, he said he had lots of positive results so far from snow x rods, none broke, they also have two slits on bottom for oiling and two holes up top... Said he has seen many failures with the stock Oem rod on boosted etecs

stock rod weight is .65kg, snow x is .60kg

good video on the comparison http://youtu.be/jBTBOpbekdM

 

[Highfly]

So builders are modifying a stock engine which is designed for its current HP and wondering why stock parts are failing???? I can't believe that someone would even attempt to keep stock rods in a Turbo motor..... Or the aftermarket hasn't created a proper kit to eliminate weak points.... I guess they make too much money selling new cases and rods.....

 

[fredw]

Picture of the two compared

 

[maierch]

Anyone know who sells or could machine titanuim rods... Drop weight and offer the extra strength we need..

Contacted crower today, to see if they make them for the the doo... Sounds like a few sets were made....

http://www.crower.com/connecting-rods.html?cat=2586

At least they're reasonably priced!

 

[allrevsrule]

You could get titanium rods made and match same weight maybe of steel rod to keep crank balanced. the rod does not look too technical. I run titanium rods never broke one and under severe power all I do every season is get them checked at Crower. But does turbo work with titanium rod. Nitrous uses aluminum rods only.

 

[fredw]

Thanks allrev, you would have some good inside on this, be nice if I could get a answer from crower on the rods, would like to give it a try on the n/a motor

don't understand why turbo would not work with ti.. If nitrous is using aluminum witch is less strength... Am I missing something here?

have a few other priveta messages that got sent to me On this hot topic, they cocour that they had similar issues of rods breaking but don't want to discuss it in open fourm for kit builders rep and possible warranty status..Starting to think it's not a kit builders issue as much of a weak oem rod that surfaced, maybe doo will upgrade rod with a few warranty claims comming threw system

You could get titanium rods made and match same weight maybe of steel rod to keep crank balanced. the rod does not look too technical. I run titanium rods never broke one and under severe power all I do every season is get them checked at Crower. But does turbo work with titanium rod. Nitrous uses aluminum rods only.

 

[deaner]

I just talked to Linderman and he says that there has been a problem with this. Thinks it is maybe a metal problem more than anything so it may be fixed for 2015. He has just had a beefed up rod made for this application though. Hes not 100% sure on pricing yet but sounds like it is made to solve this issue. He also does head work to change the squish and slightly reduce compression for 150 I believe, and porting work specifically for turbos for another 650 I think (didnt write it down).

 

[Ol' Sarge]

..Starting to think it's not a kit builders issue as much of a weak oem rod that surfaced, maybe doo will upgrade rod with a few warranty claims comming threw system

Fred. The 3 or 4 like this that I have seen all had blue bottom journals. Even tho the rod broke the same as yours I am not convinced the problem is a weak design or materials, but no doubt the stronger sno-x rods would be an improvement. If you watch the video you posted from JJ Machinery again you will see the same thing I saw…overheated bottom bearings. A connecting rod is designed to be able to take a massive load in the vertical or near vertical direction. Higher cylinder pressures (8-12lbs boost) normally are not enough to cause this kind of catastrophic failure. But what a rod is not designed to handle is more force in the horizontal direction, like what a hot or seizing bottom bearing would cause. But that's only my opinion. When the e-tecs were introduced the case lost the ability to have the fuel help move the oil around. It's splash only now and as little oil as possible to meet emissions. Not a good scenario for the extra load that boost introduces. The new cranks that I have seen going into these engines on boost not only have stronger rods but a lot more relief and notches around the bearing for lube. It's great to hear that at least a couple of shops are aware of the problem and offering an upgrade.

 

[go green]

With any of these turbo kits is there a module that reduces spark advance, particularly in the mid range? My guess is the spark is advanced enough that when on boost the air/fuel charge is pre-ignited putting immense strain on the rods. I would image that ski-doo builds the etec motor with a fair amount of advance to increase mid range power and torque, but with the added energy from boost it puts far more load on the rods than they were designed for.

^^^^^^ This

If you don't have access to change your spark map you will kill a engine nine times out of ten . In a boosted engine you must change your spark in relationship with boost , RPM and AFR . Some times you can throw a bunch of fuel at it to make up for to much timing but if you are still compromising performance and power . Its like tuning a sound system with just the treble nob .

 

[rsaint]

Thanks allrev, you would have some good inside on this, be nice if I could get a answer from crower on the rods, would like to give it a try on the n/a motor

don't understand why turbo would not work with ti.. If nitrous is using aluminum witch is less strength... Am I missing something here?

have a few other priveta messages that got sent to me On this hot topic, they cocour that they had similar issues of rods breaking but don't want to discuss it in open fourm for kit builders rep and possible warranty status..Starting to think it's not a kit builders issue as much of a weak oem rod that surfaced, maybe doo will upgrade rod with a few warranty claims comming threw system

I kinda chuckel at this if you guys think with all r&d brp does they cannnot figure out what casued the failure expecially with the race team running turbos but they still warrenty some failures and the balls of people that put warrenty claims after a failure with a turbo installed.

 

[fredw]

As you you can see this is not that wide spread with all the turbo kits athat are out there, so chances of racers having this is fairly low..

As for warrenty claims, brp is in the perfect spot, they are not endorsing the turbo kits, but yet their motor does very well under boost... not a big deal if they need to throw in a few motors for our r&d.. Maybe next year we see a strong better lubed rod

I kinda chuckel at this if you guys think with all r&d brp does they cannnot figure out what casued the failure expecially with the race team running turbos but they still warrenty some failures and the balls of people that put warrenty claims after a failure with a turbo installed.

 

[1100]

I haven't seen an Etec engine apart yet. Hope I don't. Ditched the skidud thing after the 800r and skidoo 1000 thing. I realize the pain in the ass premixing fuel is, and I'm sure the injectors and whatever else wouldn't appreciate it. If a guy were to delete the oil injection would this not solve most of this problem from what I'm reading? I keep thinking about another doo as I feel they always have had a superior chassis. Was always hoping the the 1200 would be offered in the mountain chassis. An engine that could take 200 plus horse all day long with out an worry. It would still be lighter then every sled we rode 15 years ago.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk