Clutching ramps and weight questions.

[Swapdonkeys]

Okay I have got my primary back to a working situation. I ended up getting some used parts that are slightly diffrent, and it works but diffrent then I expected I ended up getting some used ramps that are a 419 ramp I had 433 anyway the 419 ramps have a little lip at the begining that acts as a stall converter it dose not allow my sled to enguage till 5K plus instead of the 3200 RPM that I used to have. I am worried that this is going to dig holes when I am in the powder or any time I am parked uphill. Also the wights I had were approx 1 gram lighter or so the shop I bought them at said. The clutch was very dirty I cleaned everything and now it seems to make a click sound when it enguages kind of like the sound your secondary makes when you turn the to halfs and release when you checking the preload. Next when I am running down the road at a constant speed approx 25-30 kms/hr, the sled backshifts just like if you drop a gear in a car. The sled never used to do this I did pull apart the secondary and clean it as well it was also dirty a had some rust on the washer. So its diffrent than before I am not sure its bad just diffrent. I was thinking of putting back in my 433 after I clean them up there is a couple of flat spots / marks in them. What is the factory ramps and weights that would be in the sled? Any thoughts out there.

 

[my mod]

What is year and make of sled?
You DO NOT want that high an engagement in snow, maybe for racing
Sounds like you have lots wrong,
If you have changed the ramps, you also effect the pin weights and spring
All must work together to run right.

 

[Swapdonkeys]

sorry its a 07 rev 800r motor do they make a 419 with out that little ridge?

 

[maxwell]

why not try the 415. super smooth engagement and a good mountain ramp. stock in most summits

 

[Swapdonkeys]

Well I got some 415 weights and they are much better than the 419 that I just tried they engaged at 3600 rpm pulled hard but only reached a rpm of 7600 with my clickers set on 4. So I through back in my 433 ramps and they engaged at 3500rpm and with a clicker setting of 2 I am reaching 8000 rpm I don't think they pulled quite as hard but sitll pick the skis off the ground for 3/4 or better the time 415's did. So I guess I am torn do I spend money tring to get the right weight to work with the 415 or just keep the 433 and get my money back on the 415's

Dose anyone have any pros or cons of the two weights?

 

[maxwell]

Your problem is not the ramps. Ramps are not weights they serve a totally different function. Throw in the 415 ramps and then you need to remove pin weight to acheive the desired rpm. The pin weights are located in the pins that hold the rollers in place on the tra arm. You may need to buy an adjustable set for 30$

 

[finndoo]

Weight is easy to tune with set screws, but what spring is in it?

 

[my mod]

Put the 415 ramps back in
1st put a new spring in, if this is the original spring, they do get tired and start to sag. This will pull the revs down a couple hundred RPM's A person should replace the springs every year or so anyways.
If with a new spring you still are reving a little low then remove some pin weight. I would try a couple of times with just a new spring and play with the clickers first as snow conditions do change and chances are the pin weight that is in there used to work

 

[DaveB]

415's were stock with that sled and worked great.

 

[finndoo]

433 ramps are from a 1000, never heard of them being used on an 800r except for big bore or with different arms. Not sure what the 419 are from. The 415 with a purple/green 160/290 spring, small set screw(maybe 4-6mm) 800r will hold 8200 all day. If it is not working for you then something else wrong, binding on bushings, arms in upside down, and sometimes very tight sliders. If you are using used parts like the sliding sheave double check to see that it is the correct one and not off a 1000.

 

[Swapdonkeys]

I will recheck the clutch tonight after we get back from ridding but I am pretty sure I got the arms in correct the arms have a cerved in them and I put the curve so it curves up into the spider I put on a used spring cap but it looked the same as mine and did not bind on the fixed half shaft. I was ables to repair my sliding shive portion of the clutch I put a new bushing and retainer clip. I marked wich hole the spring came out of on the sliding half but I don't believe it makes a difference due to the fact it dose not have anywhere it would lock into in the spring cap. There was a piece I was not sure where it went it was like a carbon fibre type material that was approx 1" wide fit
Nicky on the fixed half shaft for am inner demenshion I put it inside the spring when it slides on to the fixed half not sure about that piece

For the secondary I cleaned it and put back together I never applied a preloX on this spring either as it never had holes on both sides of the spring one side went into a hole and the other side had a Teflon cap that went onto it
I have a 2004 manual and I never read in that manual to pre load either

I will look what spring I have thanks guys

 

[Swapdonkeys]

I found the bushing on a parts list breakdown on a website it is piece #33 and I put it in the correct spot. There is not a clear direction of which direction the curve in the leavers is to face. But I am pretty sure it came out the way I put the in

The weights I put in were new but they were 1 gram heavier than what was in the which is a little tough to say for sure due to the fact 2 of them were missing material

 

[my mod]

one gram hevier weights is enough to bring your RPM's down
Try it with 3 equal weights one gram less.

 

[Swapdonkeys]

Well here's the update I went a rode on cut block yesterday no mountains and I found that I was not able to maintain rpm's with my clickers set on 6 I was only getting 7600rpm and I was getting alot of belt slip on my primary i turned down my rid height on my belt to 3 and much less belt slip only really noticed it upon sitting for a while letting the clutch cool and then I would have belt slip formthe first couple of mins till everything warmed up I have always had belt slip in powder but not like this usually if I through some duct tape over then vents I am good to go not yesterday.

As for the primary spring the marks are green and blue

I will take a couple of pics of the primary and the belt slippage it's noticeable on the sliding shive part it's 1/2 to 3/4 covered in black from the belt

 

[Radical Rider]

Try running a 160-350 primary spring with your 415 ramps and 15.4 grams of pin weight,i run this in mt 07,rpm's hold steady around 8300 rpm climbing or just playing,sled likes to run on clicker five and i have tried alot of differnt clutch set ups, and for some reason the my sled likes clicker five with all set ups.All sleds are differnt for some reason what works on one sled doesn't always work on another sled even thow they are both the same.

 

[Swapdonkeys]

Hey Pat thanks for the advice I know your sled pulls hard. I will give it a try. Dose anyone know what a stock weight is how much can these be adjusted? They are a threded type correct or are the a solid weight?
The weights I have now are 16.6 grams.

Also any ideas of why I would have the belt slippage? The sled has always slipped here and there but when ever I carve to the clutch side of the sled in powder I put frog skins on the hood vents and it improved a bunch. Anyway with the slipping I had this weekend was really bad, one of the guys suggested turning down my ride hight on the belt to 3 from 5 and it helped out lots. Unless I carved to the clutch side.

Also I guess my spring is green and violet not blue took a women to figure that out all looks blue to me Is there a chart that I can figure out spring rates or what colors I need.

 

[Swapdonkeys]

Can anyone tell me what this is for I had two of them in my clutch, they were in the track that the slides slide up and down in almost like a shim, so the governer cap did not sit down as far on that side. I looked on the parts list from Ski doo and its not in the parts list. I have a 04 shop manual and did not see a ref to this part either.

Also I have a questiion as well about the torque bolt, what dose this do exactly is is for alignment of the clutch, for adjusting belt defection, or just as a motor mount?



I am tiring to adjust belt defelection. I am hoping that this will help with the belt slipage.

 

[maxwell]

those plates are balance weights. some clutches have 1 some have 2 some have none. dont lose those because there is no part number for them.

as for that bolt.

thats the engine torque stop all it does is stop the engine from torquing under throttle and changing the belt alignment. usually you set the alignment and then snug the engine stopper up so the engine moves 1mm out of alignment that way it will torque back to straight.

but all that is explained int he shop manual.

its not used for alignment specifically

 

[Swapdonkeys]

Is there a certain track those "plates or balance weights" are to be in there are three choices right. The tree tracks the sliders slide in. I dont recal wich track they were in.

 

[maxwell]

if you took them out and put them back in but possibly in the wrong spot i would seriously suggest having your clutch professionally balanced.