Caribou closures

[snopro]

Are you even a snowmobiler? That doesn't make any sense to me? Why would you want to increase fines for some boundaries and closures that are BS anyways. It is not just sledders that go into closed areas that ruin it for the rest of us, it is the government and the greenies that will find whatever reason to keep expanding the area that the public is locked out of. In my opinion, it is going to get to a point where they will close down so much, everyone is just going to have to say screw the closures and ride it like its our land, because it is.

Yes he is a snowmobiler and please do not come riding to Revelstoke with that attitude. Thankyou.

 

[Sask Sledder]

Im leaning a litte toward braapin. I think Caribou closures are misguided. Nevertheless we should follow rules TO THE LETTER and present ourselves as good citizens, but the effort should also be made to make them prove the closures serve a purpose. Remember the same people convinced the public Grizzly bears were going extinct in Alberta and that the black bears in Ontario needed protection in the spring. The same people also think the Moose crawling all over prairie highways somehow need protection too.

 

[snopro]

Im leaning a litte toward braapin. I think Caribou closures are misguided. Nevertheless we should follow rules TO THE LETTER and present ourselves as good citizens, but the effort should also be made to make them prove the closures serve a purpose. Remember the same people convinced the public Grizzly bears were going extinct in Alberta and that the black bears in Ontario needed protection in the spring. The same people also think the Moose crawling all over prairie highways somehow need protection too.

Hey I am no fan of closures. My point is a cowboy attitude like this guy is spieling is not going to make this problem go away. Until as a unified group we show we are good stewards of the land and can organize and present a reasonable case to these groups that are highly funded and organized then we will continue to lose more area's.

 

[ferniesnow]

.......... these groups that are highly funded and organized then we will continue to lose more area's.

Full time jobs on grant money from our governments and donations from south of the border. It kind of sucks to be us and to have people who totally ignore the rules because it is all about me, me, me....

 

[Sofa King much pow]

I see they where doing compliance check on Frisby today.
Don't think it was very good.
Guess when We lose that area We can blame someone else.

 

[tex78]

I'm thinking a guy needs to go there a catch them and tune them up.

It's funny cause its been the worst year for non compliance I've see.

The guy at the booth tells everyone

It's either some locals that don't care or some outa towners that don't care and Mabe...... Don't know better.



from my HTC

 

[Roop Doggy Dog]

The boys I work with just got back from a flight to Silvercup Ridge..to put back the caribou closure sign some dumbass sledders decided to tear down..oh- and then proceeded to chase a herd of caribou?! Seriously? The herd was spotted from the heli today, in an adjacent valley where caribou had never been seen before.
Nice work boys..now that valley will probably be included in the closure as well?! It's this type of mentality that makes me embarrassed to admit I'm a sledder..please just stay home..cuz I'm sure you're not a local!!!!!!

 

[Modman]

The boys I work with just got back from a flight to Silvercup Ridge..to put back the caribou closure sign some dumbass sledders decided to tear down..oh- and then proceeded to chase a herd of caribou?! Seriously? The herd was spotted from the heli today, in an adjacent valley where caribou had never been seen before.
Nice work boys..now that valley will probably be included in the closure as well?! It's this type of mentality that makes me embarrassed to admit I'm a sledder..please just stay home..cuz I'm sure you're not a local!!!!!!

Easy......there are lots of locals who colour way outside the lines in many areas, i live in Cowtown now, only ride BC and grew up and spent my whole life in the West Koots, been personally involved in many situations where locals are the only ones ripping up closed terrain, talked with them and they just don't care ("been doing it for years" etc) and many times I am home and riding I still run into this attitude. PM if you want specific examples...

As a guest in any area, I do my homework and diligence on riding areas, and treat that area with the same respect I would like people to give me if roles were reversed and it was my local area, and I know all my riding buddies are the same. Sometimes in an unsigned area or unmarked area I could see there being some lieniency for lack of information if there was unclear or no markings, but riding right past the closure sign and into the terrain or reading the clearly marked locations on the board at the parking lot and choosing to ignore them is BS and those responsible should have their sleds confiscated.

No excuse from out-of-towners for ignorance or bad attitudes either, piss poor representation all around on our sport from anyone who rides to the sign and right past it, it shows a lack of respect to all other sledders when they do this, no matter where they are from. One of the problems with being a sled mecca is that the more people that come, the more idiots that come as well, its the law of averages unfortunately.

This isn't as hard to police as most people think, and the word would soon get out.

 

[white6]

Seen 2 caribou up on the ridge of frisbee last weekend. I think thats only the 2nd time I have ever seen caribou on the mtn, and i've only ever seen them back around the green tower. As soon as we saw them we stopped. When we could no longer see them we proceeded slowly. We repeated this two more times. After the third stop they dropped down to the side a bit and we were able to carry on past up higher to the right slowly without causing them any more disturbance or fear. Did see some tracks down the right side of the ridge in the closures.. and had a heli been out the day they were made, wouldn't of been hard to tell in the parking lot who did it bc it was snowbike tracks :/ Sure the untouched snow looks glorious and there really fun places to play, but gotta respect the rules and the areas we do have to ride. There is plenty of other riding outside of the caribou closures, but it's not going to last if people keep this up

Oh and big thanks to the revy volunteers for the updated signage in frisbee, It is much better signed and visible than in the past IMO. Was really happy to see it.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Easy......there are lots of locals who colour way outside the lines in many areas,

Gotta agree. Locals are our biggest problem as far as non-compliance goes!

 

[deep blue]

I can see by most comments on this thread that compliance is believed to be the only way to getting expanded sledding terrain. And this may very well be true in the current framework. But we have to look at actually changing the framework, not just by playing by someone else's rules. Our opponents are better funded and organized, this is true. But it doesn't have to be that way. Has the sled industry/organizations/clubs ever commissioned there own Cariboo studies on the effects of snowmobiles?? It seems that most of this legislation is based on guesses and theories and very little on actual hard evidence. The Heli and Cat skiing industry were successful in lobbying their cases and kept most of there tenures intact. Why can't we do the same? Its obvious that most think the closures are bs, we have to find a better way to translate that majority into lobbying efforts and laws. Like it or not, riding in closed areas is a form of protest by those offending. Let's find a more effective way of harnessing it.

One the other hand, if the offenses keep getting worse and worse we might eventually have a Prohibition situation. Where the majority does not support the law. And the government will give up on enforcement due to lack of funding for compliance enforcement.

 

[catinthehat]

I can see by most comments on this thread that compliance is believed to be the only way to getting expanded sledding terrain. And this may very well be true in the current framework. But we have to look at actually changing the framework, not just by playing by someone else's rules. Our opponents are better funded and organized, this is true. But it doesn't have to be that way. Has the sled industry/organizations/clubs ever commissioned there own Cariboo studies on the effects of snowmobiles?? It seems that most of this legislation is based on guesses and theories and very little on actual hard evidence. The Heli and Cat skiing industry were successful in lobbying their cases and kept most of there tenures intact. Why can't we do the same? Its obvious that most think the closures are bs, we have to find a better way to translate that majority into lobbying efforts and laws. Like it or not, riding in closed areas is a form of protest by those offending. Let's find a more effective way of harnessing it.

One the other hand, if the offenses keep getting worse and worse we might eventually have a Prohibition situation. Where the majority does not support the law. And the government will give up on enforcement due to lack of funding for compliance enforcement.

The government will never give up on enforcement, they will simply close bigger areas so it is easier to police access.
The idea of sled organizations funding a study has been promoted but the funding is never there, hell, try getting $20 bucks out of some people for riding on groomed trails.
The number of sledders that belong to a club or organization is estimated at only 10-15 % of the total sledding population so our voice at lobbying government is no where near as loud as it should be. If only we could figure a way to convince everybody it is in their best interests to join and support the sport we all would gain.
My rant for today.

 

[lilduke]

Its not steve the skier from okatoks lobbying the government... Its the Heli/Cat Ski companys that do this.

Most the Heli skiing clientele is European and from the USA and out East. I talk to these ski clowns all the time,, they have

NO CLUE about what back country sledding is all about...


Maybe BRP,polaris and Cat should fund some lobbyist to keep our back country open to sledding???

They are the ones thats buisnesses will hurt the most long term, from land clouseres for Snowmobiles...

 

[moyiesledhead]

I can see by most comments on this thread that compliance is believed to be the only way to getting expanded sledding terrain. And this may very well be true in the current framework. But we have to look at actually changing the framework, not just by playing by someone else's rules. Our opponents are better funded and organized, this is true. But it doesn't have to be that way. Has the sled industry/organizations/clubs ever commissioned there own Cariboo studies on the effects of snowmobiles?? It seems that most of this legislation is based on guesses and theories and very little on actual hard evidence. The Heli and Cat skiing industry were successful in lobbying their cases and kept most of there tenures intact. Why can't we do the same? Its obvious that most think the closures are bs, we have to find a better way to translate that majority into lobbying efforts and laws. Like it or not, riding in closed areas is a form of protest by those offending. Let's find a more effective way of harnessing it.

One the other hand, if the offenses keep getting worse and worse we might eventually have a Prohibition situation. Where the majority does not support the law. And the government will give up on enforcement due to lack of funding for compliance enforcement.

As someone who'se been in this fight a LONG time...........here's some harsh reality. Compliance isn't going to EXPAND sledding terrain. Any hope for that is dillusional. The best it can do is maintain what we have, which is what we're desperately trying to achieve. I will guarantee that non-compliance will, and has, cost us sledding terrain.

We didn't just accept the "current framework". We fought long and hard to change it, and lost. It was never about the science. For Government it's about getting re-elected. For environmental groups it isn't even about Caribou. It's about closing the back country to motorized recreation. Caribou are just a "species of convenience". Grizzly bears are the latest one we're fighting, Lynx will be next, who knows what after that. Yellowstone to Yukon.....they pick away at us a little at a time.

As far as studies on sleds versus Caribou...waste of time, they've already been done, and completely ignored by Government. A law suit on the way the science has been applied would be a great idea though. It's happening in the US right now. Not sure it's supported by Canadian law though.

The reason the Heli/Cat ski industry was basically un-affected is nothing more than simple economics, and focusing our attention on trying to shut them out is another waste of time. They PAYED for their tenures. Legal compensation to remove those tenures and the resulting law suits would be huge, and Government's not gonna go there.....this one or the one we get in May.

Now.....to mass civil disobedience. That "might" work for a short time.....but it's a last resort to be used when all else fails. In my opinion we're not there yet......and there's no going back once you do it.......and we'll lose all public support forever. It will be basically a small scale war, and benefit no one in the end, and we will lose.

To be blunt.......if we fail it will be the fault of snowmobilers. The way we're going right now the leaf lickers are sitting back and laughing at us while we self destruct!

 

[YNOT]

Does anybody know when they are opening the caribou closures in revelstoke ( Frisbee)

 

[RevyG]

As always, the 16th

 

[glengine]

One thing alot of ppl do not know is it is the SLEDDERS responsibility to what area's are open and what isnt. Just like hunting. Also fines and penalties can be made as high as ones for hunting out of season. Where they could take a persons sled, truck, trailer and everything and just leave yah with a wallet and say figure out how your gettin home. Compliance has helped get some area's re-opend under special managment agreements but mainly and biggest is compliance helps keep exsisting area's open.

 

[tater]

Will be there Tuesday morning!!! Always one of best days of year!!!!!

 

[d8grandpa]

Will be there Tuesday morning!!! Always one of best days of year!!!!!

Where are you going to be?

 

[tater]

Where are you going to be?

Depends who's asking?? At work!!