Canada Post Strike - 2018

[skegpro]

Prob not enough for you to go get job, yes was a good place 25 30 yrs ago but is the ****s now, but most are stuck waiting to retire on the great pension

What kind of education would I need?

 

[LennyR]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globaln...anada-post-back-to-work-legislation-vote/amp/

 

[gunner3006]

Good.

 

[Cableguy]

and now more chaos

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/243141/Unions-block-postal-trucks

 

[Mach1]

All bs about the back log of trucks, I'm happy for over price labour for gm, now that Canada post is ordered to go back to work people can bitch about how sad workers at gm is out of work......not

 

[takethebounce]

All unions striking is BS, unions serve zero positive purpose today. Only protect chit employees. If they are on strike my business will go elsewhere, and not come back. As a business owner i'm fawking sick of useless employees and one's who don't give a chit about anything. If you're a chitty employee you deserve the same in compensation. There is VERY few good employees around no matter what industry you're in.

What makes a union electrician better paid than a non-union paid electrician. Tell me. I’ll wait. A union protects the weak. It always has and it always will. I’ve worked both so I feel that i can voice my opinion. It’s still electrical work. I have no sympathy here. Nor will I. So because your “canada post” you can strike when your upset or unhappy. That’s cute. Get outta here. I’d send a hurt feelings report to ya but it’s not gonna get there till maybe January cause your fighting the good union fight. Your like a fax machine. Your days are numbered.

As a Union employee Im thankful for the things like pay, benefits and pension that our Exec team negotiate for me and my family. For the most part they work fairly well with management and haven't done anything that negatively affect me. What drives me bonkers though is the protection that they provide the weak. People that are useless, made it through their probation and put their feet up for the next 29 years. At a certain point the union should be protecting the larger body and not the individual. I love hearing guys at work complain about the job and their wages, just so I can point out how much a lump they are and they're not worth close to what they're making. Pretty easy to tell those that have worked a manual job before they took a cushy union job

What I dislike is a system that rewards or defends the lazy and entitled , even after its clear to all who they are, by putting them on the same level as the workers with good work ethics , ambition , pride in their work, and a feeling of responsibility to the employer. Jealousy , hardly , had my experience with a union at a young age, realized it wasn't for me. But , now that you've stated you were a union executive, clears up a lot , I actually should have guessed that.

Since the mid 90's I have been in unions, IAM, CAW, Teamsters, and PSAC to name a few, and I have also been in management overseeing both unionized and non unionized workforce's. I have been on the union exec, both in bargaining and management side for countless disciplinary actions. Unions do not defend bad employees, as already mentioned they are required to provide representation. That representation is to ensure there are no unfair labor practices being conducted by the company. Bad management protects bad employees, its as simple as that. Federal and Provincial labour laws differ slightly especially for wages and other benefits but disciplinary action, specifically progressive discipline when followed properly ensures consistent and through follow up with the employee. If the management group doesn't follow the articles of discipline as stated in their CBA or by labour code that is not the fault of the union.

People do not believe unions are needed in this day and age because of labour laws. Where do you think those laws came from? Maybe look hard at what benefits non Union workforces and public sector employees get today and then the why they get it. Some people believe Union's are full of propaganda and misinformation but the truth is the work place you have today is better because of Unions and the battles they won. Shorter work weeks, UI, bargaining rights, workplace safety and so on.

I haven't looked up all the the Postal Workers issues but I highly doubt they are stuck on %.9 of an increase. One of the larger issues are the pay structures for rural and urban routes are a large issue and more and more CanadaPost is contracting out their rural deliveries to contractors willing to undercut costs for a reduction in service. Truth be told I don't feel CanadaPost offers a competitive advantage in terms of all the products they offer but I can chose other shipping methods, and it is true Amazon is keeping CanadaPost afloat and six 767's full of Amazon parcels in Calgary each day alone provides proof of that, but 60,000+ employees are affected by this current bargaining and its in the Governments best interest to resolve it sooner than later as there are two other major groups currently without a contract and going into an election year, both Revenue Canada Tax employees, (2 years without a contract) and CBSA also without a contract are scheduled for bargaining.

 

[800HMX]

With the Oct 16 legalization of cannibus and the requirement to use Canada Post as the only method to move product to the retailers, the Union finally has leverage. Just another gift from the Liberal govt to the people.

 

[LUCKY 7]

thanks for your input

Since the mid 90's I have been in unions, IAM, CAW, Teamsters, and PSAC to name a few, and I have also been in management overseeing both unionized and non unionized workforce's. I have been on the union exec, both in bargaining and management side for countless disciplinary actions. Unions do not defend bad employees, as already mentioned they are required to provide representation. That representation is to ensure there are no unfair labor practices being conducted by the company. Bad management protects bad employees, its as simple as that. Federal and Provincial labour laws differ slightly especially for wages and other benefits but disciplinary action, specifically progressive discipline when followed properly ensures consistent and through follow up with the employee. If the management group doesn't follow the articles of discipline as stated in their CBA or by labour code that is not the fault of the union.

People do not believe unions are needed in this day and age because of labour laws. Where do you think those laws came from? Maybe look hard at what benefits non Union workforces and public sector employees get today and then the why they get it. Some people believe Union's are full of propaganda and misinformation but the truth is the work place you have today is better because of Unions and the battles they won. Shorter work weeks, UI, bargaining rights, workplace safety and so on.

I haven't looked up all the the Postal Workers issues but I highly doubt they are stuck on %.9 of an increase. One of the larger issues are the pay structures for rural and urban routes are a large issue and more and more CanadaPost is contracting out their rural deliveries to contractors willing to undercut costs for a reduction in service. Truth be told I don't feel CanadaPost offers a competitive advantage in terms of all the products they offer but I can chose other shipping methods, and it is true Amazon is keeping CanadaPost afloat and six 767's full of Amazon parcels in Calgary each day alone provides proof of that, but 60,000+ employees are affected by this current bargaining and its in the Governments best interest to resolve it sooner than later as there are two other major groups currently without a contract and going into an election year, both Revenue Canada Tax employees, (2 years without a contract) and CBSA also without a contract are scheduled for bargaining.

 

[Cyle]

Since the mid 90's I have been in unions, IAM, CAW, Teamsters, and PSAC to name a few, and I have also been in management overseeing both unionized and non unionized workforce's. I have been on the union exec, both in bargaining and management side for countless disciplinary actions. Unions do not defend bad employees, as already mentioned they are required to provide representation. That representation is to ensure there are no unfair labor practices being conducted by the company. Bad management protects bad employees, its as simple as that. Federal and Provincial labour laws differ slightly especially for wages and other benefits but disciplinary action, specifically progressive discipline when followed properly ensures consistent and through follow up with the employee. If the management group doesn't follow the articles of discipline as stated in their CBA or by labour code that is not the fault of the union.

People do not believe unions are needed in this day and age because of labour laws. Where do you think those laws came from? Maybe look hard at what benefits non Union workforces and public sector employees get today and then the why they get it. Some people believe Union's are full of propaganda and misinformation but the truth is the work place you have today is better because of Unions and the battles they won. Shorter work weeks, UI, bargaining rights, workplace safety and so on.

I haven't looked up all the the Postal Workers issues but I highly doubt they are stuck on %.9 of an increase. One of the larger issues are the pay structures for rural and urban routes are a large issue and more and more CanadaPost is contracting out their rural deliveries to contractors willing to undercut costs for a reduction in service. Truth be told I don't feel CanadaPost offers a competitive advantage in terms of all the products they offer but I can chose other shipping methods, and it is true Amazon is keeping CanadaPost afloat and six 767's full of Amazon parcels in Calgary each day alone provides proof of that, but 60,000+ employees are affected by this current bargaining and its in the Governments best interest to resolve it sooner than later as there are two other major groups currently without a contract and going into an election year, both Revenue Canada Tax employees, (2 years without a contract) and CBSA also without a contract are scheduled for bargaining.

My personal experience with unions is briefly working at 2 big companies many years ago, of which I was already sick of the way they do things. I absolutely refuse to work for a company in which advancement is based on length of time with company, not performance. On top of that partly union partly big company BS that makes things cost 10x what a common sense private company would take. Good quality employees don't need protection of a union.

But at this point I don't really care either way, I run my own company and will never work for someone again. Unions or not, I really couldn't careless. I do find it funny when people whine about working a lot, by working 45 hours a week. I'd be happy to have such a short week. But then again they wonder why they are working paycheck to paycheck.

 

[skid]

Grade 10 so your fawked

 

[LennyR]

Since the mid 90's I have been in unions, IAM, CAW, Teamsters, and PSAC to name a few, and I have also been in management overseeing both unionized and non unionized workforce's. I have been on the union exec, both in bargaining and management side for countless disciplinary actions. Unions do not defend bad employees, as already mentioned they are required to provide representation. That representation is to ensure there are no unfair labor practices being conducted by the company. Bad management protects bad employees, its as simple as that. Federal and Provincial labour laws differ slightly especially for wages and other benefits but disciplinary action, specifically progressive discipline when followed properly ensures consistent and through follow up with the employee. If the management group doesn't follow the articles of discipline as stated in their CBA or by labour code that is not the fault of the union.

People do not believe unions are needed in this day and age because of labour laws. Where do you think those laws came from? Maybe look hard at what benefits non Union workforces and public sector employees get today and then the why they get it. Some people believe Union's are full of propaganda and misinformation but the truth is the work place you have today is better because of Unions and the battles they won. Shorter work weeks, UI, bargaining rights, workplace safety and so on.

I haven't looked up all the the Postal Workers issues but I highly doubt they are stuck on %.9 of an increase. One of the larger issues are the pay structures for rural and urban routes are a large issue and more and more CanadaPost is contracting out their rural deliveries to contractors willing to undercut costs for a reduction in service. Truth be told I don't feel CanadaPost offers a competitive advantage in terms of all the products they offer but I can chose other shipping methods, and it is true Amazon is keeping CanadaPost afloat and six 767's full of Amazon parcels in Calgary each day alone provides proof of that, but 60,000+ employees are affected by this current bargaining and its in the Governments best interest to resolve it sooner than later as there are two other major groups currently without a contract and going into an election year, both Revenue Canada Tax employees, (2 years without a contract) and CBSA also without a contract are scheduled for bargaining.[/QU

Certainly some of your comments have merit , but saying unions don't defend and protect the lazy is definetly not one of them. One example , the ATA. anyone ever notice that some teachers get moved around schools a lot, sometimes because of controversy over teaching methods or staff relationships or very often a pattern of unreasonably low class marks, or an inability to relate to parents or administration . I'm not a teacher but have some knowledge through family , and it's well known in that circle that you can't get rid of a bad/lazy/ineffective/uncooperative teacher , what they do do is move them around , a lot. The principals of schools and the district offices realize battling with the Ata is pointless, so they pawn them off on schools with newer principals or in areas where teachers are hard to get , to the detriment of the recipient school staff and kids, cause it's easier. So many teachers who should have been skidded years ago , spend their years till retirement doing the minimum, cause they will get protection from the union. Everyone I the system knows who they are. So many awesome people with a real desire to teach kids, get involved in extra curricular activities at lunch time and after school , sports teams on weekends , and then the others, do the absolute minimum , get to school 5 minutes before class, standing tee time at 3:30 everyday. But the union says they get paid the same , based on tenure or seniority. Now I think that teachers are one of the most underpaid professions in our country, the good ones are invaluable to the mental and physical growth of our kids and their future, but most people base their opinions on teachers remuneration on the crappy lazy ones that are so glaringly evident. Now it's even getting worse with the nutty ones coming into the system with their dumbass personal agendas regarding gender and sexual orientation, , and these oddballs will get protected and paid fully the same as the ones who have been nothing but true to their goal of bettering kids futures.
Thats one example, and there are many more in so many other industries. Other things you gloss over when giving the unions total credit for workplace improvements is the advances in technology, communication, education, transportation , computers, and so many more. Unions had a place and maybe still do , but society has grown past their socialist type mindset I believe. Reality, we are all not equal,at all things, no matter what your mom told you.

 

[takethebounce]

Since the mid 90's I have been in unions, IAM, CAW, Teamsters, and PSAC to name a few, and I have also been in management overseeing both unionized and non unionized workforce's. I have been on the union exec, both in bargaining and management side for countless disciplinary actions. Unions do not defend bad employees, as already mentioned they are required to provide representation. That representation is to ensure there are no unfair labor practices being conducted by the company. Bad management protects bad employees, its as simple as that. Federal and Provincial labour laws differ slightly especially for wages and other benefits but disciplinary action, specifically progressive discipline when followed properly ensures consistent and through follow up with the employee. If the management group doesn't follow the articles of discipline as stated in their CBA or by labour code that is not the fault of the union.

People do not believe unions are needed in this day and age because of labour laws. Where do you think those laws came from? Maybe look hard at what benefits non Union workforces and public sector employees get today and then the why they get it. Some people believe Union's are full of propaganda and misinformation but the truth is the work place you have today is better because of Unions and the battles they won. Shorter work weeks, UI, bargaining rights, workplace safety and so on.

I haven't looked up all the the Postal Workers issues but I highly doubt they are stuck on %.9 of an increase. One of the larger issues are the pay structures for rural and urban routes are a large issue and more and more CanadaPost is contracting out their rural deliveries to contractors willing to undercut costs for a reduction in service. Truth be told I don't feel CanadaPost offers a competitive advantage in terms of all the products they offer but I can chose other shipping methods, and it is true Amazon is keeping CanadaPost afloat and six 767's full of Amazon parcels in Calgary each day alone provides proof of that, but 60,000+ employees are affected by this current bargaining and its in the Governments best interest to resolve it sooner than later as there are two other major groups currently without a contract and going into an election year, both Revenue Canada Tax employees, (2 years without a contract) and CBSA also without a contract are scheduled for bargaining.[/QU

Certainly some of your comments have merit , but saying unions don't defend and protect the lazy is definetly not one of them. One example , the ATA. anyone ever notice that some teachers get moved around schools a lot, sometimes because of controversy over teaching methods or staff relationships or very often a pattern of unreasonably low class marks, or an inability to relate to parents or administration . I'm not a teacher but have some knowledge through family , and it's well known in that circle that you can't get rid of a bad/lazy/ineffective/uncooperative teacher , what they do do is move them around , a lot. The principals of schools and the district offices realize battling with the Ata is pointless, so they pawn them off on schools with newer principals or in areas where teachers are hard to get , to the detriment of the recipient school staff and kids, cause it's easier. So many teachers who should have been skidded years ago , spend their years till retirement doing the minimum, cause they will get protection from the union. Everyone I the system knows who they are. So many awesome people with a real desire to teach kids, get involved in extra curricular activities at lunch time and after school , sports teams on weekends , and then the others, do the absolute minimum , get to school 5 minutes before class, standing tee time at 3:30 everyday. But the union says they get paid the same , based on tenure or seniority. Now I think that teachers are one of the most underpaid professions in our country, the good ones are invaluable to the mental and physical growth of our kids and their future, but most people base their opinions on teachers remuneration on the crappy lazy ones that are so glaringly evident. Now it's even getting worse with the nutty ones coming into the system with their dumbass personal agendas regarding gender and sexual orientation, , and these oddballs will get protected and paid fully the same as the ones who have been nothing but true to their goal of bettering kids futures.
Thats one example, and there are many more in so many other industries. Other things you gloss over when giving the unions total credit for workplace improvements is the advances in technology, communication, education, transportation , computers, and so many more. Unions had a place and maybe still do , but society has grown past their socialist type mindset I believe. Reality, we are all not equal,at all things, no matter what your mom told you.

I will still disagree. A teacher getting moved around because they are bad teacher and the corporation responsible for discipline or corrective action against that teacher is at fault, not the union. If the union exploits weaknesses in the management(principle in this case)because they are inconsistent in their actions or not willing to “battle” then they should fire the principle lol

That’s like a parent letting their kid steal. Johnny comes home and someone calls and says Johnny stole someone’s lunch money, so the parent says don’t do that again and Johnny throws a tantrum, then Johnny does it the next day and the parent says hey I told you don’t do that and Johnny again throws a tantrum. Next day same thing so instead of having Johnny throwing a tantrum the parent just gives Johnny more lunch money because they don’t know how to correct his behaviour. The practice of condoning someone’s actions because it’s the easier thing to do is just bad management.


I haven’t ever been a part of an Association though. I may when I am bored look up what rights in the eyes of the labour law an Association has compared to a Union. They operate in a similar manner but they are not a Union per-say.

 

[LennyR]

I will still disagree. A teacher getting moved around because they are bad teacher and the corporation responsible for discipline or corrective action against that teacher is at fault, not the union. If the union exploits weaknesses in the management(principle in this case)because they are inconsistent in their actions or not willing to “battle” then they should fire the principle lol

That’s like a parent letting their kid steal. Johnny comes home and someone calls and says Johnny stole someone’s lunch money, so the parent says don’t do that again and Johnny throws a tantrum, then Johnny does it the next day and the parent says hey I told you don’t do that and Johnny again throws a tantrum. Next day same thing so instead of having Johnny throwing a tantrum the parent just gives Johnny more lunch money because they don’t know how to correct his behaviour. The practice of condoning someone’s actions because it’s the easier thing to do is just bad management.


I haven’t ever been a part of an Association though. I may when I am bored look up what rights in the eyes of the labour law an Association has compared to a Union. They operate in a similar manner but they are not a Union per-say.

I get what you mean , but that's really not the same at all , sorry. I've sat through a couple "unfair labour practice " hearings, which happen quite often, and in both cases , it was blatantly obvious the employee was a habitual complainer and least productive member of the team , even in the eyes of the rest of the team (also union members) , and when the management demanded that employee keep up or measure up to the standard expected and achieved by most other team members, he whined and bitched about his hangnail and his sore eye and sore bum and unsafe work place and short coffee breaks and bad lighting etc etc. anything to not work. But every time the "shop steward " who on most union sites is not held in high regard in the first place , ( except by the lazy and unmotivated) and is usually one of the employees who should have been skidded , would step forward in defence. So in your example , if the parents at some point do try to cause the kid to do what's expected, but end up in court and receive a monetary fine or some other penalty , then it would be same. Now I don't condone unsafe work sites or abusive type management or any unreasonable negative behaviour by any employers, but in so many cases , the rights of the union members are so often defended to the disadvantage or detriment to the employers future, and that's wrong. And striking, especially government funded essential service jobs, that's really bull$hit. Funded services , paid for by taxpayer dollars, workers demand more whatever, and they have a right to withhold those services from the taxpayer who funds them ! That's not labour relations , that's hostage taking. As I've said , there were probably good things done by unions in the past , but labour laws need a rewrite.

 

[takethebounce]

So you are saying Unions are no good but labour laws need a rewrite?

So if labour laws are also lacking then isn’t it beneficial to have a collective agreement that is beneficial for all the employees?

I think your distaste for unions even though you have felt no hardship because of a union other than someone may or may not have worked as hard as you at some point which is the case in all work places regardless of the public or unionized environment has just given you something to argue about.

Nothing has changed in your examples either. Management isn’t willing to actually build a case on the bad employee. I have been on that management end time and time again. It may take sometimes years of constant documentation and corrective action but I enjoyed sending grown men home to tell their families they were stupid and got fired. Most of that comes down to training, most managers or direct supervisors are never trained in how to handle unionized employees where as the union execs and stewards are at least given the basics. I have seen HR reps, directors and VP’s break down in meetings and leave because they didn’t want to deal with the union reps.

You just don’t want to believe that it is a failure of the management system that allows the majority of dead weight union members to keep their jobs. You are also butt hurt because you feel it’s money coming out of your pocket to provide a quality of living to Postal workings that you do not believe they are entitled to fight for.

You should likely stop paying taxes all together as everything and just about everyone around you is doing just what you are arguing against. Government funded Police, Fire, Nurses and other health care providers, City workers, educators, and then private organizations with Pilots and the guys who load bags on your planes when you take off for fancy trips, and of course skilled labourers and trades making sure your heat is on, your internet works, your vehicles are new and shiny, your fridge is full of beer and so on. Lol

 

[lilduke]

If you don't like your working conditions or pay or want more coffe breaks ext you could always go find something else to do. Guess it easier to just go on strike and cry until you get your way.

 

[Bnorth]

So you are saying Unions are no good but labour laws need a rewrite?

So if labour laws are also lacking then isn’t it beneficial to have a collective agreement that is beneficial for all the employees?

I think your distaste for unions even though you have felt no hardship because of a union other than someone may or may not have worked as hard as you at some point which is the case in all work places regardless of the public or unionized environment has just given you something to argue about.

Nothing has changed in your examples either. Management isn’t willing to actually build a case on the bad employee. I have been on that management end time and time again. It may take sometimes years of constant documentation and corrective action but I enjoyed sending grown men home to tell their families they were stupid and got fired. Most of that comes down to training, most managers or direct supervisors are never trained in how to handle unionized employees where as the union execs and stewards are at least given the basics. I have seen HR reps, directors and VP’s break down in meetings and leave because they didn’t want to deal with the union reps.

You just don’t want to believe that it is a failure of the management system that allows the majority of dead weight union members to keep their jobs. You are also butt hurt because you feel it’s money coming out of your pocket to provide a quality of living to Postal workings that you do not believe they are entitled to fight for.

You should likely stop paying taxes all together as everything and just about everyone around you is doing just what you are arguing against. Government funded Police, Fire, Nurses and other health care providers, City workers, educators, and then private organizations with Pilots and the guys who load bags on your planes when you take off for fancy trips, and of course skilled labourers and trades making sure your heat is on, your internet works, your vehicles are new and shiny, your fridge is full of beer and so on. Lol

Years to document a non-performing employee to get any action? Say 10-15% fall below the acceptable threshold you're using up too much of a manager's time to deal with problem employees. A manager may have time to deal with the 1-3% of the worst but there will still be a bunch that aren't quite bad enough to warrant that much attention that skid on through. Unions have their place but the time has come to be more collaborative with employers rather than adversarial.

 

[Stg2Suby]

Interesting the normally well run Amazon shipping/tracking service is in total disarray, doubtless Amazon is getting thousands of complaints.

Think CP could be doing this on purpose, levering Amazon to urge the government to give them what they want?

Case in point I ordered a printer last Thursday, Amazon after 20 updates still doesn't know where it and estimating sometime next week, now I see a delivery notice in my mailbox saying its been available for pickup since Tuesday.

 

[craggar2011]

I've been on both sides of the fence and what I saw unions do the most was protect the people that most employers wouldn't want working for them. As far as I'm concerned the labor laws and health and safety which the unions of the past had a big part in getting created should be all you need to get a fair pay and safe place to work. If you don't like it, then do what "lilduke" says and find something else to do.

"Nothing has changed in your examples either. Management isn’t willing to actually build a case on the bad employee. I have been on that management end time and time again. It may take sometimes years of constant documentation and corrective action but I enjoyed sending grown men home to tell their families they were stupid and got fired. Most of that comes down to training, most managers or direct supervisors are never trained in how to handle unionized employees where as the union execs and stewards are at least given the basics. I have seen HR reps, directors and VP’s break down in meetings and leave because they didn’t want to deal with the union reps."

It should never takes years to get rid of someone but probably did because he had the union backing him. I have terminated a few employees over the years and no matter how much they screwed up or I just disliked them I "never" enjoyed thinking about how he was going to tell his family that he lost his job. Anyone who enjoys that has their own issues.

 

[skegpro]

Interesting the normally well run Amazon shipping/tracking service is in total disarray, doubtless Amazon is getting thousands of complaints.

Think CP could be doing this on purpose, levering Amazon to urge the government to give them what they want?

Case in point I ordered a printer last Thursday, Amazon after 20 updates still doesn't know where it and estimating sometime next week, now I see a delivery notice in my mailbox saying its been available for pickup since Tuesday.

I would agree.
Amazon has threatened to start their own delivery.
If they pulled out Canada Post would crumble.

 

[Bnorth]

I would agree.
Amazon has threatened to start their own delivery.
If they pulled out Canada Post would crumble.

totally agree, If Canada Post screws Amazon's holiday season Amazon will move away from CP. Another example of why unions are employees and not employers, no business sense.