Canada Post Strike - 2018

[Cdnfireman]

Somewhere back a few posts the comment came up that a non union company came in and contracted some work for what was normally was taken care of by union workers. The job was done in the same fashion and The company charge full rate and even went as far as saying if he charged more it would be a crime. On the other side the union said they can’t compete with this and cost would be much higher.
My question is why? Perhaps I already know the answer but have a question for you...where the Fock dose the money come from when unions cost twice as much and are half as productive.
its all fun and games till the well runs dry. Like shiny pony, keep taxing and taking till there’s nothing left. Going to be real fun when the music stops and there isn’t enough chairs.

Id love to see the data on union companies being twice as much and half as productive. When I worked as an electrician on industrial jobs, the oil companies would hire union companies because they knew most of the guys had industrial experience and weren’t a bunch of house wirers. There’s a big difference between an industrial electrician and someone who’s spent their career wiring garages. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Any business owner can relate to that axiom.
And we all better be careful about getting into a race to the bottom. There’s lots of complaints here about immigrants taking the trucking jobs and driving the prices down so low that everyone is starving. Take everyone’s benefits and pensions away and lowering the wages to minimum wage benefits nobody. That’s what is destroying the middle class. Union pay scales even if not exactly followed set a benchmark for wages in their respective industries. Someone somewhere has to determine a reasonable wage for the middle class.
40 hour work week, benefits, pensions and safe workplace rules are all things won from employers by union contracts. Unions aren’t perfect, but they’ve made everyone’s working life better.

 

[LennyR]

Maybe check out the Real Estate owned by the various large labour unions , millions of dollars invested cause they care for you and want to make your life better , and the salaries paid to the to CEO's and the hundreds of underlings and the floor after floor of offices in many hi-rise towers in many cities, maybe take a look at the bonuses paid to the most successful "organizers" , maybe ask yourself why it takes 85-90% to decertify a company but only 51 % to gain certification. Yeah there probably used to be a place for unions,and they've done some good for lots of people , but now , IMO, they are just giant asset collecting , executive job creating machines with a main purpose of growing larger. And to do that , they need the dues from a lot of people. Take a look back , if you could add up all the dues paid into the different unions, and then also what's been actually tangibly paid back to benefit the members, you'll be very surprised I'm sure. I guess if you want or feel the need to work for a wage that's in some way calculated to reflect all the non productive members, and in most cases , everyone knows who they are , but they can't be skidded cause they are protected, then that's great. But personally I'd rather run their asses off the job , and in a lot of cases you'd be also doing them a favour , they would then have to move to a job or industry or training that they may excel at or be more suited for. Reality, all tradespeople, workers , teachers , nurses , ain't the same , there's good and average and bad, and to base remuneration for the best , with consideration to the worst is gonna eventually frustrate and de motivate the best workers while allowing the worst to continue being the worst. Unions are totally self serving , and every once in a while they have to make a big public show out of giving back to the members, to insure they continue their main goal , collecting membership dues.

 

[LUCKY 7]

thank you. what you said is so TRUE!!!!!!!! look at who was driving the truck that hit the bus full of hockey kids

Id love to see the data on union companies being twice as much and half as productive. When I worked as an electrician on industrial jobs, the oil companies would hire union companies because they knew most of the guys had industrial experience and weren’t a bunch of house wirers. There’s a big difference between an industrial electrician and someone who’s spent their career wiring garages. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Any business owner can relate to that axiom.
And we all better be careful about getting into a race to the bottom. There’s lots of complaints here about immigrants taking the trucking jobs and driving the prices down so low that everyone is starving. Take everyone’s benefits and pensions away and lowering the wages to minimum wage benefits nobody. That’s what is destroying the middle class. Union pay scales even if not exactly followed set a benchmark for wages in their respective industries. Someone somewhere has to determine a reasonable wage for the middle class.
40 hour work week, benefits, pensions and safe workplace rules are all things won from employers by union contracts. Unions aren’t perfect, but they’ve made everyone’s working life better.

 

[Mach1]

Yes I make a lot more, because I hustle and earn it. I don’t force anyone to pay me that much. I have to bid jobs competitively or I will have no work. Yea I probably make 6-8 times more then the postal workers, but guess what? It’s a free country they are more then welcome to come do what I do.

Yes true, but no one is bitching at what you do or get paid, you are bitching at what they do and get paid, and ffff you my wife works her ass off for what she makes....fff babies

 

[Tchetek]

When I worked as an electrician on industrial jobs, the oil companies would hire union companies because they knew most of the guys had industrial experience and weren’t a bunch of house wirers. There’s a big difference between an industrial electrician and someone who’s spent their career wiring garages.

Hahaha. Oh buddy. There are many union electricians that would have a hard time wiring very simply things. Being union does not mean they are skilled!

Minimum wage is now $15 an hour. How often is your order incorrect at the drive thru?

 

[Mach1]

We have a way bigger problems with imagrints driving the price down in all areas of Canadian work force, you fff guys who think your better and deserve what you make get your head out of your asses. Look at the real work force in edm/Calg and tell me who is really there,

 

[Mach1]

Hahaha. Oh buddy. There are many union electricians that would have a hard time wiring very simply things. Being union does not mean they are skilled!

Minimum wage is now $15 an hour. How often is your order incorrect at the drive thru?

ok so what you saying, they will do better if pd more, or go get trained to do drive through and it will be better, we'll have had many labours on job last 2 weeks no skill and can't pay under 20 and can't even do demo, it's all ffff up in all areas.

 

[LennyR]

Yes true, but no one is bitching at what you do or get paid, you are bitching at what they do and get paid, and ffff you my wife works her ass off for what she makes....fff babies

Very likely true, and sounds like she deserves it. But ask yourself how many of her workmates don't work as hard, don't care as much, aren't as skilled , or who are cruising thru benefitting from her extra work ethic. Are they getting paid the same ??

 

[X-it]

What I would like to see is the guys bitching about the postal workers spend one day doing it, sort that route probably take you 5 hrs, then go out and walk that 15 k route in snow packing 30lbs load. Bring a flash light so you can read the numbers in the dark.

 

[Tchetek]

ok so what you saying, they will do better if pd more, or go get trained to do drive through and it will be better, we'll have had many labours on job last 2 weeks no skill and can't pay under 20 and can't even do demo, it's all ffff up in all areas.

What I’m saying is pay should be based on effort level, not based on entitlement.

Work hard and be productive get rewarded with higher wages, work half ass get half ass wage.

 

[skegpro]

What I’m saying is pay should be based on effort level, not based on entitlement.

Work hard and be productive get rewarded with higher wages, work half ass get half ass wage.

Stop talking logically lol.

 

[chickenman]

As a Union employee Im thankful for the things like pay, benefits and pension that our Exec team negotiate for me and my family. For the most part they work fairly well with management and haven't done anything that negatively affect me. What drives me bonkers though is the protection that they provide the weak. People that are useless, made it through their probation and put their feet up for the next 29 years. At a certain point the union should be protecting the larger body and not the individual. I love hearing guys at work complain about the job and their wages, just so I can point out how much a lump they are and they're not worth close to what they're making. Pretty easy to tell those that have worked a manual job before they took a cushy union job

 

[Summitric]

Good points all.... Repped y'all for good conversation

 

[Caper11]

Ive worked as a non union employee and a union employee, all points made on this thread are very true and valid.

You can still work your ass off in a non union environment and a fella who is good a brown nosing will get more perks than a productive employee.

Unions are no different than a business, its all how they are managed. I don’t believe a union has a place in a well managed fair working atmosphere, but in a poor one a union definitely has there purpose.


What I see the canada post union is asking for is very reasonable. That being said if they are not careful they may loose more than they expect, yah have to be careful what yah wish for.

 

[Cdnfireman]

Maybe check out the Real Estate owned by the various large labour unions , millions of dollars invested cause they care for you and want to make your life better , and the salaries paid to the to CEO's and the hundreds of underlings and the floor after floor of offices in many hi-rise towers in many cities, maybe take a look at the bonuses paid to the most successful "organizers" , maybe ask yourself why it takes 85-90% to decertify a company but only 51 % to gain certification. Yeah there probably used to be a place for unions,and they've done some good for lots of people , but now , IMO, they are just giant asset collecting , executive job creating machines with a main purpose of growing larger. And to do that , they need the dues from a lot of people. Take a look back , if you could add up all the dues paid into the different unions, and then also what's been actually tangibly paid back to benefit the members, you'll be very surprised I'm sure. I guess if you want or feel the need to work for a wage that's in some way calculated to reflect all the non productive members, and in most cases , everyone knows who they are , but they can't be skidded cause they are protected, then that's great. But personally I'd rather run their asses off the job , and in a lot of cases you'd be also doing them a favour , they would then have to move to a job or industry or training that they may excel at or be more suited for. Reality, all tradespeople, workers , teachers , nurses , ain't the same , there's good and average and bad, and to base remuneration for the best , with consideration to the worst is gonna eventually frustrate and de motivate the best workers while allowing the worst to continue being the worst. Unions are totally self serving , and every once in a while they have to make a big public show out of giving back to the members, to insure they continue their main goal , collecting membership dues.

wow.... you really don't have a clue how a union works.....the wages that get negotiated are for all the workers.... the good ones wages don't supplement the bad ones....everyone gets paid the same for the same jobs....and unions in Canada have to be non profit organizations.... they aren't allowed to make money or show a profit.... they invest their money just like any other fiscally responsible organization would to protect their capital.
The numbers of union executives as a percentage of the union membership is typically very small, and their wages are voted on by their membership.... totally transparent to their respective memberships and any "bonuses" have to be approved by the membership as well....compare what the posties union boss gets paid compared to a company with the same number of workers in the private sector..... probably hundreds of thousands compared to tens of millions, stock options and a huge golden parachute.... and the union boss can be voted out by the membership whereas the CEO of a big Corporation doesn't have to worry what the workers think, he'll always be taken care of.
You obviously hate the unions, which is your right, but educate yourself before you post.

 

[kanedog]

As an employer, my union was awesome. They would send me new hires and said if the guy doesn't produce, send him back. No questions asked. No more hiding behind the Union they said. They would even say, hey this guy is not that good but he will do in a pinch.
I'll never forget that. It was so cool and I never had to send anyone back.

 

[Bnorth]

This country is just not a non union country. i got double time for every minute of overtime and at every contract the company wanted to take it back and tried hard for it.My understanding its a 40 hour week and anything over 8 hours per day on a 5x2 shift needs to be overtime. don't get me wrong I also realize that unions have bad points too.

All OT at double time is great until they start looking at cutting costs and close up locations.

It’s always interesting to note that nobody ever has anything to say about public sector jobs or unions until they want to renegotiate the contracts. Nobody ever says that they’re gonna go try to get a government job, says they want to be a postie or any other government worker bee. The way everyone complains about how overpaid and underworked government workers are you’d think everyone would want their job.
The truth is that most government jobs suck and most people don’t want to do them. Stop and think about which government jobs you would want to do. When times are good, public sector pay is usually below the provincial averages. It’s only when things slow down and everyone is laying off, or cutting hours and wages does government pay and work look attractive. People that decide to take a government job lots of times trade job security and a pension over the better pay and benefits that private sector jobs offer.
And for the people that complain that they don’t get a pension or benefits where they work, that’s your choice. There’s lots of private sector jobs that offer both, quit complaining and go get a better job. If you’ve pigeonholed yourself into some crappy job and are in a rut you can’t get out of, don’t blame anybody but yourself.
I worked construction right out of high school and got my electrical ticket. I realized that I didn’t want to suffer through the ups and downs of that so I went back to school, got a technical diploma and never looked back, always had a good paying job and got paid well to work all over the world.
Life is what YOU make of it. Nobody is gonna do it for you.

Most guys on a site like this have no interest in being a mindless government union drone where promotion is based on seniority instead of actual merit and you just do the work that falls in your little box. No incentive for innovation, problem solving or progression just do as you're told how you're told. I see lots of guys that fight tooth and nail for the union but are miserable at work due to the working conditions created in a union environment.

 

[Mach1]

What I’m saying is pay should be based on effort level, not based on entitlement.

Work hard and be productive get rewarded with higher wages, work half ass get half ass wage.

i totally agree, but that's the problem when getting hired or doing same job with union job or not hard to take it away or change it. Like most skill labour, skilled at ffff all and over payed. My wife is on strike for herself and not for others, so guys driving downtown today and are late to meetings and going home don't just bitch at postal workers, remember there is also oil related people down there also demonstrating. Just saying

 

[LUCKY 7]

just to clarify my location did not get closed down due to double time overtime.If that was the case then all the locations in BC would have been shut down. It got shut down due to a few reason including using a call center and online ordering.

All OT at double time is great until they start looking at cutting costs and close up locations.



Most guys on a site like this have no interest in being a mindless government union drone where promotion is based on seniority instead of actual merit and you just do the work that falls in your little box. No incentive for innovation, problem solving or progression just do as you're told how you're told. I see lots of guys that fight tooth and nail for the union but are miserable at work due to the working conditions created in a union environment.

 

[eclipse1966]

years ago a saw mill work kills a family while turning into the yard of his employment. He was drunk and killed the family. employer fires him for coming to work yet again drunk (3rd time they knew about). Union fights to get his job back because basically his shift hadn't begun yet. Granted he had bigger problems than losing his job by impaired driving and killing the family but my question is what kind of a union would protect such an individual and fight for his job. sad!