BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

[ferniesnow]

My understanding is that the idea came out of the Sea to Sky. The frugal dudes didn't want to have to pay to ride the managed areas. They though one pass would be a great idea and save them a lot of money. They had no idea where the rest of the money would come from to support the infrastructure.

 

[skegpro]

Re: BCSF provincial membership "draft proposal".

No. That's one of the things the proposal for a provincial membership is trying to address. If the money is collected as memberships rather than trail passes, and re-allocated back to the clubs by the BCSF, then the narrow rules governing what the money can be used for "theoretically" don't apply. That's the idea anyway. As I said at the very beginning, it will unfortunately kill some small clubs and negatively effect the income of some larger clubs. I personally don't like it, but that's just one old guys opinion.

I don't like it either, it sounds like a failed NDP/Liberal wealth distribution plan.

Bottom line I guess is we have been given an abstract bunch of rules to deal with but the BCSF needs to funding to protect our riding areas.

We need to come up with creative fundraising ideas.

I think we need to organize a sperm drive.

Cause who wouldn't want their kids to grow up to be a sledder. Couples will pay big money for that.

#causeits2016
#greatidea
#roleupyoursleevesandhelp
#whatthe****isahashtag?

 

[tex78]

We do that at the trailhead, but you're right. A lot of riders have no idea.......till the closure signs go up......then it's my fault.

Problem is, the lot people have enough on there plates, between dumb tools, already talking trail conditions, avy conditions ect

They get paid peanuts and people waiting in line are already mad to wait

We talked about the extra info, even about a food vendor wanting to do something up the hill, and would be too much extra time to say what's on the menu ect

sent while drinking tea's

 

[TylerG]

just a side note here guys, I've read this entire thread and I'm super happy to see a constructive discussion going on here, it is very interesting and has stayed on topic. Good Job!

 

[Fahrns]

Lots of great dialogue so far.
Here's my idea:

What if when you buy this 'proposed' provincial pass online you are required to select a 'home' club (i.e. Revy, Golden, Windermere etc.). First the BCSF fee is pulled out and then automatically say 80% of the remaining pass fee is passed on directly to that club. The remaining 20% is then put into a pot that is then distributed out to all of the clubs based on club membership numbers.

For example: Let's say the Provincial Pass was $230
BCSF portion:$30
Home club: $160 (paid out in a timely manner to the clubs)
Provincial Pot: $40 (paid out maybe in late January once all the membership numbers are tallied up)

Then the provincial pot gets split based on the number of members per club. Say your club has 25 members out of 2500 members total; you get 1% of the 'pot'.

I think a provincial pass idea is great. As an out of province rider most years I end up buying just day passes (I rode 4 different club areas last year not including the backroad areas I rode too). I would gladly buy a provincial pass knowing that it was good for any area in BC and that I was also supporting the BCSF. I would also suggest that this pass is an option on top of the existing passes available from the clubs. i.e. If you only every ride Fernie, you can continue to just buy your local pass and not be forced to buy a pricier provincial pass. The provincial pass sould be sold by the BCSF only so that the local clubs don't have to deal with the administration. There would have to be some sort of agreement where BCSF provides membership information to the local clubs on who selected their club as their 'home' club so you can be included on invites to meetings and newsletters etc.

My 2 cents.

 

[skegpro]

just a side note here guys, I've read this entire thread and I'm super happy to see a constructive discussion going on here, it is very interesting and has stayed on topic. Good Job!

I feel by page 50 we will have a solution lol

 

[rightsideup]

I am afraid this will be the demise of mountain sledding if we can't get our **** together.

I had a conversation with someone who is president of a club and about 50 per cent of area's have been lost some due to habitat concerns and others to an emerging sport that is organized and wants to expand.

 

[rightsideup]

Lots of great dialogue so far.
Here's my idea:

What if when you buy this 'proposed' provincial pass online you are required to select a 'home' club (i.e. Revy, Golden, Windermere etc.). First the BCSF fee is pulled out and then automatically say 80% of the remaining pass fee is passed on directly to that club. The remaining 20% is then put into a pot that is then distributed out to all of the clubs based on club membership numbers.

For example: Let's say the Provincial Pass was $230
BCSF portion:$30
Home club: $160 (paid out in a timely manner to the clubs)
Provincial Pot: $40 (paid out maybe in late January once all the membership numbers are tallied up)

Then the provincial pot gets split based on the number of members per club. Say your club has 25 members out of 2500 members total; you get 1% of the 'pot'.

I think a provincial pass idea is great. As an out of province rider most years I end up buying just day passes (I rode 4 different club areas last year not including the backroad areas I rode too). I would gladly buy a provincial pass knowing that it was good for any area in BC and that I was also supporting the BCSF. I would also suggest that this pass is an option on top of the existing passes available from the clubs. i.e. If you only every ride Fernie, you can continue to just buy your local pass and not be forced to buy a pricier provincial pass. The provincial pass sould be sold by the BCSF only so that the local clubs don't have to deal with the administration. There would have to be some sort of agreement where BCSF provides membership information to the local clubs on who selected their club as their 'home' club so you can be included on invites to meetings and newsletters etc.

My 2 cents.

do you think 13 % is a high enough number to do the work they are proposing to do.Larger clubs tend to have more sponsorship or even a share of tax revenue. Smaller clubs never become larger because of issues like lack of grooming.

 

[Mach1]

I just looked it up and i stand corrected, Ontario $260 for season and Quebec is $385 for season. Most all other provinces is slightly under $200.

Well pretty strange as just got off phone with buddy and just bought his pass in Ontario and was 180.00 even.

 

[Lund]

Well pretty strange as just got off phone with buddy and just bought his pass in Ontario and was 180.00 even.

Permits | Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs

 

[Pistonbroke]

I really hope this can happen: we travel all over BC to ride and so are the exact target audience for the pass. We are club members at one club but tend to spread out our riding all over and thus rack up quite a number of day passes each season.

To all the naysayers I challenge you: look for solutions, not problems!

 

[skegpro]

I really hope this can happen: we travel all over BC to ride and so are the exact target audience for the pass. We are club members at one club but tend to spread out our riding all over and thus rack up quite a number of day passes each season.

To all the naysayers I challenge you: look for solutions, not problems!

Might happen, might have to be $400 for a province wide pass or $200 for a single club.

Tough to tell what the potential solution is when we don't know all the rules.

 

[Fahrns]

do you think 13 % is a high enough number to do the work they are proposing to do.Larger clubs tend to have more sponsorship or even a share of tax revenue. Smaller clubs never become larger because of issues like lack of grooming.

I just pulled some numbers out of the air. It would take some evaluation to figures out a fair formula, but the idea is that a simple method could divy up the pass fees in a reasonably fair method.

I believe that most of the fees collected will still come from (in descending order):
1. Day passes
2. Local club passes
3. A potential future provincial membership

With a reasonable formula, clubs shouldn't see a major imbalance in fees since (a) most funds are still directly coming in from day passes and local club passes and (b) revenue from a provincial pass could be fairly allocated. It will never be perfect, but it would avoid a major club/area like revy getting short changed on revenue and a tiny 20 member club hitting an unfair jackpot.

At the end of the day, I personally think adding a provincial pass would be a great option that I would take advantage of. I didn't read the proposal, but I would support something that doesn't eliminate the ability of local clubs to sell their own passes. More options can lead to the end goal of more folks getting a pass which means more BCSF memberships.

 

[skegpro]

I just pulled some numbers out of the air. It would take some evaluation to figures out a fair formula, but the idea is that a simple method could divy up the pass fees in a reasonably fair method.

I believe that most of the fees collected will still come from (in descending order):
1. Day passes
2. Local club passes
3. A potential future provincial membership

With a reasonable formula, clubs shouldn't see a major imbalance in fees since (a) most funds are still directly coming in from day passes and local club passes and (b) revenue from a provincial pass could be fairly allocated. It will never be perfect, but it would avoid a major club/area like revy getting short changed on revenue and a tiny 20 member club hitting an unfair jackpot.

At the end of the day, I personally think adding a provincial pass would be a great option that I would take advantage of. I didn't read the proposal, but I would support something that doesn't eliminate the ability of local clubs to sell their own passes. More options can lead to the end goal of more folks getting a pass which means more BCSF memberships.

I agree with you but to me still the number one problem is the cheapest option, #1 the trail pass doesn't generate any revenue for the BCSF.

Something needs to change in that area.
Might take some legal maneuvering or an appeal to the BCSF government.

But it needs to happen as it seems to be the largest revenue stream for all clubs.

 

[tex78]

I agree with you but to me still the number one problem is the cheapest option, #1 the trail pass doesn't generate any revenue for the BCSF.

Something needs to change in that area.
Might take some legal maneuvering or an appeal to the BCSF government.

But it needs to happen as it seems to be the largest revenue stream for all clubs.

But some clubs don't get big kick backs from tourism chairs ect ( revy, will just put that out there) , sicamous I can tell you that any less money coming in as far as per trail pass or membership and they will fold

It's a close to break even scenario right now

Have a big snow cat break down and the way it is now won't have the money to fix it




Yrs something needs done, but the draft now NOT the right way to do it

sent while drinking tea's

 

[09summitxp]

Great idea for the traveler for sure, currently just pay daily to have flexibility where to ride, would love a provincial pass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lund]

I really hope this can happen: we travel all over BC to ride and so are the exact target audience for the pass. We are club members at one club but tend to spread out our riding all over and thus rack up quite a number of day passes each season.

To all the naysayers I challenge you: look for solutions, not problems!

I'm in the same boat and from what i have experience from traveling the province and alot of the peeps i ride with during the season travel. There is a very large number of sledders in BC that don't belong to a club just for that very reason. Every weekend they are at a different location.

I'll reiterate what has been said by Pistonbroke "To all the naysayers I challenge you: look for solutions, not problems!"

 

[catinthehat]

I just pulled some numbers out of the air. It would take some evaluation to figures out a fair formula, but the idea is that a simple method could divy up the pass fees in a reasonably fair method.

I believe that most of the fees collected will still come from (in descending order):
1. Day passes
2. Local club passes
3. A potential future provincial membership

With a reasonable formula, clubs shouldn't see a major imbalance in fees since (a) most funds are still directly coming in from day passes and local club passes and (b) revenue from a provincial pass could be fairly allocated. It will never be perfect, but it would avoid a major club/area like revy getting short changed on revenue and a tiny 20 member club hitting an unfair jackpot.

At the end of the day, I personally think adding a provincial pass would be a great option that I would take advantage of. I didn't read the proposal, but I would support something that doesn't eliminate the ability of local clubs to sell their own passes. More options can lead to the end goal of more folks getting a pass which means more BCSF memberships.

The way I read the proposal it doesn't allow separate club passes.
The overall calculations are based on a revenue generation of both membership and day passes, at least that is my interpretation of it.

 

[Donegal-BCSF]

This a great discussion guys and gals. Sorry I have not responded sooner but was prepping for the Edmonton show and compiling the first round of feedback received from clubs on the draft plan for a Provincial Membership Permit (PMP). There is lots of great ideas in here and some of them were brought forward already. We are looking for all ideas and solutions. The plan was drafted at the request of clubs and will be adapted several times I am sure before we find a scenario that works.

A few things I want to clarify...you cannot currently buy a membership in the BCSF. You can only buy a membership in one of our member snowmobile clubs. The BCSF was set up as a Federation of Snowmobile Clubs and is intended to work on items of comment interest and/or Provincial significance. The club currently pays 26.25 of each adult membership sold to the BCSF as their dues to cover their club insurance, BCSF programs, and lobbying. The club is our member.

The biggest message I want everyone to take away...the PMP is not intended to bring anyone down. The idea is to work together to bring everyone up. The first round of draft showed that the large clubs did not come up with an equitable share to meet their needs. This is a work in progress and this means that the revenue matrix needs to be changed. So we are going to change it.

Currently no portion of the day pass sales comes to fund the BCSF. Money collected at the trail head is actually collected on behalf of government to be invested right back into that specific Rec site. Meaning the club cannot spend the money on new areas, buildings, groomer purchases or areas not under agreement. It also means that no portion can come to the BCSF.

As for the laws...we are not currently allowing them to mould the draft plan. If the plan requires legislative changes required than the BCSF and our clubs will fight to make those changes.

The other key part of the plan is that the clubs would do this voluntarily...meaning they control and manage the PMP and its distribution. So if the PMP formulas are not working the clubs will have the ability to make changes.

For day passes they are still in the plan. You would be able to buy a PMP for the year, a day pass, or three day.

Sorry for the short answers....Please keep the discussion coming as we are listening.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Thanks Donegal. I was hoping we'd hear from you.