BC Teachers strike

[Polarblu]

I have a hard time believing that without seeing their agreement with my own eyes. Unions strike for a reason. Can't see any union allowing a clause like that to be added to any collective agreement.
Caterpillar closed a plant in London Ontario recently where the employees were on strike because they refused to have their wages cut in half. 456 direct jobs and about 1700 spinoff jobs were lost.

If such a clause existed the plant wouldn't have closed.

Thats why i was asking and am still asking because the construction industry up here is under the impression that another strike like that, cant happen. People will be replaced.

 

[jbb]

Teachers’ salaries in B.C. for the 60 school districts range from an average starting salary of $47,461 to an average maximum of $75,083. The teachers’ federation, in a report entitled 2011 Canadian Teacher Salary Rankings: Provinces and Territories, compared salaries across Canada. Rankings were based on a selection of cities in the larger provinces and the Northwest Territories, and on provincewide figures for the Maritimes, Nunavut, Yukon and Newfoundland and Labrador.

Focusing on teachers paid the most, the federation says a teacher in Edmonton with equivalent years of experience and education was earning $95,354 this year, compared to $74,353 for a teacher in Vancouver.

As an example British Columbia and Saskatchewan have virtually the same starting salary for a registered nurse of $26.90 per hour. However, for the first step on the pay scale the annual registered nurse salary in BC would be $50,569.27 while the annual amount in Saskatchewan would be $52,472.72. Both nurses earn the same amount of money per hour but the registered nurse in Saskatchewan earns $1900.00 more per year because the labor union collective agreement defines a full time work week as 40 hrs, whereas the nurse in British Columbia is working full time with a 36 hour work week.


so a teach makes more then a nurse that can save your life! how f@cked up is that?

 

[Riverjet]

Teachers’ salaries in B.C. for the 60 school districts range from an average starting salary of $47,461 to an average maximum of $75,083. The teachers’ federation, in a report entitled 2011 Canadian Teacher Salary Rankings: Provinces and Territories, compared salaries across Canada. Rankings were based on a selection of cities in the larger provinces and the Northwest Territories, and on provincewide figures for the Maritimes, Nunavut, Yukon and Newfoundland and Labrador.

Focusing on teachers paid the most, the federation says a teacher in Edmonton with equivalent years of experience and education was earning $95,354 this year, compared to $74,353 for a teacher in Vancouver.

As an example British Columbia and Saskatchewan have virtually the same starting salary for a registered nurse of $26.90 per hour. However, for the first step on the pay scale the annual registered nurse salary in BC would be $50,569.27 while the annual amount in Saskatchewan would be $52,472.72. Both nurses earn the same amount of money per hour but the registered nurse in Saskatchewan earns $1900.00 more per year because the labor union collective agreement defines a full time work week as 40 hrs, whereas the nurse in British Columbia is working full time with a 36 hour work week.


so a teach makes more then a nurse that can save your life! how f@cked up is that?

Who taught the nurse?

 

[Polarblu]

Who taught the nurse?

Lets not go teachers vs nurses. we know who will win the argument. people that teach your kids or the people that keep your kids alive?

 

[jbb]

Who taught the nurse?

a university professor.........

 

[jbb]

Lets not go teachers vs nurses. we know who will win the argument. people that teach your kids or the people that keep your kids alive?

no chit eh. i guess there better then a dr to?

 

[canuck5]

Big corporations have HR departments and policies and procdures that prevent things like(Bosses son ect got hired and someone else was let go to make room). Eg. in our company you can't have a relitave as a direct report because of biases. We even have an integrity help line lol. Ive seen some real peices of work keep a job for years because they pay there dues, and they would of been let go in non Union situations. What I mean by holding your back is progression systems and seniorities preventing the most qualified person to advance even if your the best suited person for the job, you have to wait for the POS in front of you who will never get there. There is also the fine line drawn between management and the workers in Union situations instead of working together and making solutions they always but heads and have to refer to a book. Ive worked both and for a decent employee unions are useless!

Thats not entirely true.

If the employer properly documents issues with deadwood and involves the union, problem people are very easy to get rid of. Unions also protect employees that are being fired for no reason like you see in non union shops. Non union employers can pretty much fire without cause and it happens a lot where people are fired to make a spot for an employers relative or because they simply don't like you. The list is endless. People shouldn't lose their jobs because the boss's son-inlaw needs it. If the Boss in a union shop wants you fired, he better have a good reason and the documentation to back it up.

I don't know what you mean that the union can "hold back those who want to advance". I've never seen any union having any say in who does or does not advance. That is the employers decision.

 

[S.W.A.T.]

I have a hard time believing that without seeing their agreement with my own eyes. Unions strike for a reason. Can't see any union allowing a clause like that to be added to any collective agreement.
Caterpillar closed a plant in London Ontario recently where the employees were on strike because they refused to have their wages cut in half. 456 direct jobs and about 1700 spinoff jobs were lost.

If such a clause existed the plant wouldn't have closed.

i really fail to see the logic in this, had the unions workers accepted the pay cut wouldn't they still have jobs? What are they doing now?I understand standing up for whats right and standing up for what you believe in but some times you just have to take one for the team. Now there are around 2000 people out of work wondering what just happened.

 

[grizzlymud]

One question How much do you pay a baby sitter per kid? Times that by 30 kids and how much is that? Bet more then the teacher is being paid. What is your kids future worth? My sister was a teacher and most days she was working 12 hours a day 6 days a week. The union stuff not going to touch as there are good and bad. One thing I don't agree on is how they can go years without a contract as far as I'm concerned this is there own fault they should be negotiating before your contract is up if you don't have a contract why are you working? No contract no work. Thats like building a whole house when you only have a contract to build half. My

 

[pano-dude]

Welcome to the discussion, glad you, as a parent, have been paying attention to an important issue that's been going on for the last 6 months that will affect your child's future. "THEY WANT MONEY? SH!T JUST GOT REAL!"

Yeah, they do want more money so they can be in line with other teachers in the country, but it's not the root of it. These PEOPLE who we've put in charge of our children's futures want to be treated with respect. They put in as many hours, deal with as much BS as anyone, and you want to throw them under a fuggin' bus? You have no idea.

The advertising is to point out that they want more than money. They want job security (not fired or relocated on a whim) and teachable classes (you try and make 30 teenagers "learn" something. I bet you couldn't either.)

You think being a teacher is just something you can do? Like a job at McDonalds or something? They went to college for 6 years, probably have student loans... I'm still paying off my 4 year program and I get paid more than a teacher with equivalent years of experience.

Their employer will not negotiate on their terms, so the teachers have been working without a contract for the last couple years. Teachers I know love their jobs. They spend their own money on supplies. They spend evenings and weekends marking and preparing for the days ahead.

So here's two points for you to think on: Your daughters teacher is a human, probably stressed out about the measly strike pay they're about to get, and you think they're horrible evil for "spreading propaganda"? Second, maybe you should think about how much you value your kids education a bit.

Job security???? how about all the forestry and mill workers who have been tossed out over the last 5 yrs?

6 yrs uni??? nope 4 as far as I know unless you're a principal

you make more but you probably don't get 12 weeks off a yr

evenings and weekends for prep work.... no different than any other business owner

no sympathy here, too many old crappy teachers out there not doing their job and just collecting a pay check. In our area there is people losing their homes due to layoffs.

 

[Riverjet]

Big corporations have HR departments and policies and procdures that prevent things like(Bosses son ect got hired and someone else was let go to make room). Eg. in our company you can't have a relitave as a direct report because of biases. We even have an integrity help line lol. Ive seen some real peices of work keep a job for years because they pay there dues, and they would of been let go in non Union situations. What I mean by holding your back is progression systems and seniorities preventing the most qualified person to advance even if your the best suited person for the job, you have to wait for the POS in front of you who will never get there. There is also the fine line drawn between management and the workers in Union situations instead of working together and making solutions they always but heads and have to refer to a book. Ive worked both and for a decent employee unions are useless!

I've worked union shops most of my life as a HD Mechanic and have never seen seniority hold anyone back that was more qualified for any position. Companies can promote who ever they choose. Having said that, seniority does come into play regarding layoffs. Not all collective agreements are the same. You gotta remember that a collective agreement is an agreement that was signed by two parties who agree to follow the rules they signed off on. Usually the only time you have to refer to a "book" is when one party or the other isn't living up to what they agreed upon. I don't know what you mean by "progression system".

You said, " Ive seen some real peices of work keep a job for years because they pay there dues, and they would of been let go in non Union situations"
If the employer was doing their part and documenting the things these "real pieces of work' were doing that you see as reasons to lose their jobs, then that documentation would see that "real piece of work" gone after a number of documented problems, No? I've seen it happen that way many times in my time.

You say that "for a decent employee unions are useless". It can also be said that for a bad employer unions are a must. Thats why they exist in the first place.

Unions were born out of the need to protect workers against bad employers. Unions are not some alien entity that comes from space and forces people to join them. Unions are the workers. They pay dues that go to the wages of the union leaders, business agents and other union office workers etc. These people are "employees" of the workers. We as union members employ them to represent us in negotiations and disputes between us and the company.

 

[Riverjet]

a university professor.........

Who taught them from Kindergarten through to grade 12 ? Who taught the College /university professors? Without teachers where would we all be?

Teachers are pretty special in my mind. They do more than just teach our kids.

 

[Riverjet]

Job security???? how about all the forestry and mill workers who have been tossed out over the last 5 yrs?

6 yrs uni??? nope 4 as far as I know unless you're a principal

you make more but you probably don't get 12 weeks off a yr

evenings and weekends for prep work.... no different than any other business owner

no sympathy here, too many old crappy teachers out there not doing their job and just collecting a pay check. In our area there is people losing their homes due to layoffs.

Forestry and mill workers losing their jobs has what to do with teachers job security?

Evenings and weekends for prep work....teachers aren't business owners, so it is definately "different than any other business owner".

People are losing their homes everywhere due to layoffs. What does that have to do with teachers?

 

[jbb]

Forestry and mill workers losing their jobs has what to do with teachers job security?

Evenings and weekends for prep work....teachers aren't business owners, so it is definately "different than any other business owner".

People are losing their homes everywhere due to layoffs. What does that have to do with teachers?

you our obviously a teacher??????? you must be loving only having to work 6 days this month? if you wanna get into a debate on who taught who. i guess were all teachers. because i teach new works my trades every year and no i didnt learn them from any school. its called hands on experiance.

 

[eclipse1966]

I've worked union shops most of my life as a HD Mechanic and have never seen seniority hold anyone back that was more qualified for any position. Companies can promote who ever they choose. Having said that, seniority does come into play regarding layoffs. Not all collective agreements are the same. You gotta remember that a collective agreement is an agreement that was signed by two parties who agree to follow the rules they signed off on. Usually the only time you have to refer to a "book" is when one party or the other isn't living up to what they agreed upon. I don't know what you mean by "progression system".

You said, " Ive seen some real peices of work keep a job for years because they pay there dues, and they would of been let go in non Union situations"
If the employer was doing their part and documenting the things these "real pieces of work' were doing that you see as reasons to lose their jobs, then that documentation would see that "real piece of work" gone after a number of documented problems, No? I've seen it happen that way many times in my time.

You say that "for a decent employee unions are useless". It can also be said that for a bad employer unions are a must. Thats why they exist in the first place.

Unions were born out of the need to protect workers against bad employers. Unions are not some alien entity that comes from space and forces people to join them. Unions are the workers. They pay dues that go to the wages of the union leaders, business agents and other union office workers etc. These people are "employees" of the workers. We as union members employ them to represent us in negotiations and disputes between us and the company.

way back in my earlier days I started off as a heavy duty mechanic working for a private shop then for Parks Canada in Field. If a Union represents what I experienced while working there, then I am sorry I would never want to work for a Union again. I was told by my shop supervisor that if I wanted to keep my job I have to adapt by forgetting what I learnt in the private sector. Too many example to list but lets just say it was a complete joke.

 

[bigz64]

Who taught them from Kindergarten through to grade 12 ? Who taught the College /university professors? Without teachers where would we all be?

Teachers are pretty special in my mind. They do more than just teach our kids.

yes teachers are special but your not going to win just by posting the most

history has proved that people didnt learn everything from a text book, we taught outselves usually by trial and error

yes teachers have to put in extra time in evenings and over nights and that sucks but a lot of career choices require this, most un-paid. but unlike these other career choices they get the summer months off which does make up for those weekends and evenings. they have the opportunity to tutor or summer school during the summer months which pays very very well ~$40-$50 an hour. they also have the opportunity to supervise exam writing which requires no work just sitting and getting paid, above thier regular wage. i have a lot of firends who are teacher so im only reporting what they are telling me

you have to compare the teacher to nurse as they are employed by the same boss, have similar wages, similar issues with raises but very different jobs. i understand teachers have to deal with little hellion children, working long un paid hours, coaching, etc. but nurses have to work even longer hours at the worst times of the day and night (they do get paid extra for that) deal with death, gore, emotional families and crippling depression. i see a lot of nurses that are single or divorced as their job follows them home in the worst ways. i see a lot of teachers that have a good family life married with kids.

my teacher firends have been on the business for 5-10 years and they are generally happy and love their jobs

my nurse firends and family have been in the business for 1-5 years and are generally not happy but still love their jobs

its sad to see my sister breaks down and crys in the middle of a vacation as she remembers a little kid dying in her care...

here is the wage info (alberta wages), since thats what this is all about scroll to the bottom for wage info. the mean wages are very close

 

[bigz64]

i should add im not against them getting raises, everyone in a union/ association role should get 3-5% every year for inflation. private sector jobs with no union get performance based raises and bonuses.

 

[Riverjet]

you our obviously a teacher??????? you must be loving only having to work 6 days this month? if you wanna get into a debate on who taught who. i guess were all teachers. because i teach new works my trades every year and no i didnt learn them from any school. its called hands on experiance.

No, I'm not a teacher, although I attempted to be one a few years back and do have the utmost respect for what they face on a daily basis. I couldn't hack the grade 10 and 11 students. They new it all and showed no respect for anyone in class. I have no idea how teachers put up with the BS handed out by some students. If their parents only cared when they were informed about little Johnnies BS in class we would've seen a change in them. Never did. Teachers are also baby sitters in many cases. Something they don't get paid for but do because they care about their students.

I am a gov't employee though and a member of the BCGEU. Our agreement is up at the end of March. We have been negotiating with the BC gov't for some time already, if thats what you want to call it. So far the only thing thats happened at the bargaining table is the union has tabled 9 non monetary items involving language mostly. Not one penny is involved with any of the 9 items. The gov'ts response to all 9....... nope sorry, what else you got.

I can pretty much guarantee you will see a major strike by the BCGEU this summer. So, to all those that live in BC or have regular dealings here with the BC gov't, be prepared cause its a happenin!

We haven't had a raise in a number of years, not one penny. Everyone watches while everything around us increases in price making it really tough for some with families trying to make ends meet. We ask for a pittance to help our families and are told/dictated to, court ordered....NO! At the same time we see elected gov't personnel giving themselves astronomical wage and pension benefit increases. Don't get me started on the Corporate welfare our elected officials feel that the taxpayers in this country need to take from their families and hand it over to corporations and their rich shareholders. You know that saying that BC stands for "Bring cash"? You better believe it. Our gov't is completely run by corporate BC and they are helping them fleece the people of this province.

 

[bigz64]

No, I'm not a teacher, although I attempted to be one a few years back and do have the utmost respect for what they face on a daily basis. I couldn't hack the grade 10 and 11 students. They new it all and showed no respect for anyone in class. I have no idea how teachers put up with the BS handed out by some students. If their parents only cared when they were informed about little Johnnies BS in class we would've seen a change in them. Never did. Teachers are also baby sitters in many cases. Something they don't get paid for but do because they care about their students.

I am a gov't employee though and a member of the BCGEU. Our agreement is up at the end of March. We have been negotiating with the BC gov't for some time already, if thats what you want to call it. So far the only thing thats happened at the bargaining table is the union has tabled 9 non monetary items involving language mostly. Not one penny is involved with any of the 9 items. The gov'ts response to all 9....... nope sorry, what else you got.

I can pretty much guarantee you will see a major strike by the BCGEU this summer. So, to all those that live in BC or have regular dealings here with the BC gov't, be prepared cause its a happenin!

We haven't had a raise in a number of years, not one penny. Everyone watches while everything around us increases in price making it really tough for some with families trying to make ends meet. We ask for a pittance to help our families and are told/dictated to, court ordered....NO! At the same time we see elected gov't personnel giving themselves astronomical wage and pension benefit increases. Don't get me started on the Corporate welfare our elected officials feel that the taxpayers in this country need to take from their families and hand it over to corporations and their rich shareholders. You know that saying that BC stands for "Bring cash"? You better believe it. Our gov't is completely run by corporate BC and they are helping them fleece the people of this province.

that does make a little more sense when they ask for these big raises, to make up for many years.

i couldnt work government to much bs

 

[Longhairfreak]

You mean a 15% raise isn't reasonable LOL.

15% are you kidding me? We only got 19.48% over 6 yrs. Who do these teachers think they are?