Pistonbroke
Active VIP Member
Dang slab drivers making it difficult for us.....grrrrrrrrr
B.C. backcountry snowmobile ban
- Thread starter rondun
- Start date
pete gads
Active VIP Member
I don't like mike either, but if we keep shooting ourselfs in the foot someone is going to step in that being the goverment. We all new that it wasn't safe but some people kept riding on the big dangerous hills (it won't happen to us) attiude is wrong. We as a group have to have better judgement in these bad times. Ride were it is safe and no one will have reason to take from us.
- Moderator
- #63
Bogger
Bogger of the GBCA
Same goes for the Quads....There will be repercussions to this bruderhiem situation....fires not even under control yet and the talking heads are flapping
snoqueen
Active VIP Member
This Mike Wiegele character has obviously lost revenue from his business last season and is looking for an easy target....and yet again....we are the target. This article to ban snowmobiling is so one-sided it makes me sick. We need to have a spokesperson from the BCSF step in ASAP and rectify this situation. We are going to have one heck of a fight on our hands, though. I don't think it was very appropriate of Mr. Wiegele to talk about the victim in the terms that he did, if it was "upsetting to his staff" can you imagine how the victims family must feel after hearing that?? That is INEXCUSABLE!!!
We as a snowmobiling community are going to have to fight long and hard now. No more just talking about doing something to try and rescue our sport. We have to walk the walk. All it is going to take is a stroke of a pen and it will be all over for backcountry sledding as we have known it. Please....if you haven't done so already, write letters to your local MLA's,....make it clear to them how important sledding is to you and the economy. Join your local snowmobile club. That is the least you can do to try and bring a stronger more unified voice to our sport.
We as a snowmobiling community are going to have to fight long and hard now. No more just talking about doing something to try and rescue our sport. We have to walk the walk. All it is going to take is a stroke of a pen and it will be all over for backcountry sledding as we have known it. Please....if you haven't done so already, write letters to your local MLA's,....make it clear to them how important sledding is to you and the economy. Join your local snowmobile club. That is the least you can do to try and bring a stronger more unified voice to our sport.
SHREK1
Active VIP Member
see he made the 11:00 news , never met him before , looks like a spinless weasel , complaining how he has retrieved victims at his own cost , pretty sure a person like that does nothing unless it benifits him in some way , correct me if im mistaken
- Admin
- #66
Really, what network?
And in defense for the ASA and BCSF, currently there is a big 1 week convention and seminar in Pentictin for the CAC,Canadian Avalanche Association, and most of them are there. Im sure Mike has planned to make his big stink while this is all going on there. I think the newspaper reporter seems a little one sided or just not to educated on this entire subject and should get his facts straight.
I am working on something for them now as well, and any ideas are appreciated.
pipes
Active VIP Member
if you could find the stats on the number of heli shiing incidents in the past few years. that Otto shut him up. I think a petition could't hurt.
sledderdoc
Super Senior Member
I sent off a letter to Mr. Kennady as well yesterday. I think the more people sending stuff the better. I'd post it but don't know how to post a microsoft word doc. keeps telling me its an invalid file??
HRT Offroad
Active VIP Member
- Thread starter
- #71
rondun
Active VIP Member
I do have a reply of my own for the heli skiers GET OFF MY SLED TRAIL
That is my reply TO ALL HAVE A NICE DAY
That is my reply TO ALL HAVE A NICE DAY
lexy
Active VIP Member
this is a comment on the article from this weeks meetings in Penticton.
Insider knowledge
May 05, 2009 - 11:50 PM
I sat in a meeting today with executive from the B.C Snowmobile Federation, The Canadian Avalanche Association, Helicat Canada, Ministry of Forest,Sport and Tourism, plus other Stakeholders of the B.C. Backcountry in Penticton. It was the AGM of the Canadian Avalanche Assocaition. Season wrap up if you will. I will tell you this subject was brought up. The entire group was not on the same page as Mr. Weigele. The other operators of competitive Heli Companies went on to say they support the BCSF, CAC, Ministry of Forest and in no way is it their opinion to restrict land use to any one specific user group. They expressed interest to set the record straight and also felt we all need to work together long term to sustain each user group in B.C. I hope the editor of this article will investigate the proper facts and re visit this topic in the very near future. Bottom line it appears Mr.Weigele is on his own and can continue his long standing fight with the Blue River Snowmobile Club. But I doubt he will have many ears after a stunt like this.
Insider knowledge
May 05, 2009 - 11:50 PM
I sat in a meeting today with executive from the B.C Snowmobile Federation, The Canadian Avalanche Association, Helicat Canada, Ministry of Forest,Sport and Tourism, plus other Stakeholders of the B.C. Backcountry in Penticton. It was the AGM of the Canadian Avalanche Assocaition. Season wrap up if you will. I will tell you this subject was brought up. The entire group was not on the same page as Mr. Weigele. The other operators of competitive Heli Companies went on to say they support the BCSF, CAC, Ministry of Forest and in no way is it their opinion to restrict land use to any one specific user group. They expressed interest to set the record straight and also felt we all need to work together long term to sustain each user group in B.C. I hope the editor of this article will investigate the proper facts and re visit this topic in the very near future. Bottom line it appears Mr.Weigele is on his own and can continue his long standing fight with the Blue River Snowmobile Club. But I doubt he will have many ears after a stunt like this.
Last edited:
sledderdoc
Super Senior Member
Thanks HRT I'll give it a try .... sorry if its a little long 
May 5, 2009
The Province
Attn Mr. Kent Spencer
Dear Mr. Spencer
I am writing in regards to an article you wrote regarding snowmobilers and Mr. Mike Wiegele.
In the article Mr. Wiegele is calling for more control and possibly a ban on snowmobiling in B.C.s back country. An area in which he also does all of his business. I imagine more area for him would equal more profit!
It is true that he has more restrictions and equipment than snowmobilers but he is a commercial enterprise profiting from the back country!! I would hope he has these measures in place.
Snowmobilers are private citizens who pay to be there. As a group snowmobilers contribute to the local economies to the point that if they were banned the economic fallout would be disastrous. If Mr. Wiegele were to cease operations I doubt many people would notice.
It is true that this year with the snow conditions that we snowmobilers have had a bad year but considering the many thousands of people that go the percentage is still small. It is unfortunate that some people like Mr. Wiegele would use this as an opportunity to further their private interests.
I also would question some of the facts you mentioned such as it costing him $20,000.00 per rescue out of his own pocket. That sounds very generous indeed! However he is reimbursed by the coroners office and PEP. Also if he is charging that much I would say he is again profiting handsomely from the demise of others. If you care to check other companies charge much much less.
It is this type of behaviour that I would call “unacceptable selfishness” that you refer to in your title.
As a group we are working hard to educate ourselves with the proper training to play safe in the back country and a quick call to a company like Zacs Tracs in Alberta will confirm this with the shear numbers of people like myself who have received avalanche training. We also don’t sled willy nilly in out of bound areas. The vast majority (like skiers) play in bounds in designated riding areas.
I’m curious also why Mr. Wiegele didn’t mention the skier he lost while being accompanied by his well trained guides?
Bottom line is if you play in the back country you take chances. We are all aware of the risks and take precautions to minimize them. Unfortunately Mother Nature wins out sometimes.
It would be nice to see an article perhaps outlining the positive impact snowmobiling has on the local economies and let the public see the other side of the story.
Yours sincerely
Dr. Norm Bornau DDS
20, 4 SpruceRidge Dr.
Spruce Grove, Alberta
T7X 4S3
May 5, 2009
May 5, 2009
The Province
Attn Mr. Kent Spencer
Dear Mr. Spencer
I am writing in regards to an article you wrote regarding snowmobilers and Mr. Mike Wiegele.
In the article Mr. Wiegele is calling for more control and possibly a ban on snowmobiling in B.C.s back country. An area in which he also does all of his business. I imagine more area for him would equal more profit!
It is true that he has more restrictions and equipment than snowmobilers but he is a commercial enterprise profiting from the back country!! I would hope he has these measures in place.
Snowmobilers are private citizens who pay to be there. As a group snowmobilers contribute to the local economies to the point that if they were banned the economic fallout would be disastrous. If Mr. Wiegele were to cease operations I doubt many people would notice.
It is true that this year with the snow conditions that we snowmobilers have had a bad year but considering the many thousands of people that go the percentage is still small. It is unfortunate that some people like Mr. Wiegele would use this as an opportunity to further their private interests.
I also would question some of the facts you mentioned such as it costing him $20,000.00 per rescue out of his own pocket. That sounds very generous indeed! However he is reimbursed by the coroners office and PEP. Also if he is charging that much I would say he is again profiting handsomely from the demise of others. If you care to check other companies charge much much less.
It is this type of behaviour that I would call “unacceptable selfishness” that you refer to in your title.
As a group we are working hard to educate ourselves with the proper training to play safe in the back country and a quick call to a company like Zacs Tracs in Alberta will confirm this with the shear numbers of people like myself who have received avalanche training. We also don’t sled willy nilly in out of bound areas. The vast majority (like skiers) play in bounds in designated riding areas.
I’m curious also why Mr. Wiegele didn’t mention the skier he lost while being accompanied by his well trained guides?
Bottom line is if you play in the back country you take chances. We are all aware of the risks and take precautions to minimize them. Unfortunately Mother Nature wins out sometimes.
It would be nice to see an article perhaps outlining the positive impact snowmobiling has on the local economies and let the public see the other side of the story.
Yours sincerely
Dr. Norm Bornau DDS
20, 4 SpruceRidge Dr.
Spruce Grove, Alberta
T7X 4S3
May 5, 2009
Billy Boy
Active VIP Member
I am starting to sound like a broken record but I think it is extremely important that both provincial sled associations have to respond to the outlandish and inflamitory comments made by Mr. Weigele. I believe the rebutal from the associations would hold more weight with the media and public at large. Also the reporter on this story needs to be taken to task about his sloppy reporting and shoody research into this story but he is a reporter why let the facts get in the way of a good story to help you sell a few more newspapers and advertising space.
Billy Boy
Billy Boy
kjb
Active VIP Member
I had to rant at kspenser as well. Here is what I sent. Sorry if it is so long.
I think it is obvious that Mike Weigle is using this years spike in snowmobile avalanche fatalities for his own benefit to exclude snowmobilers from using the backcountry around his tenure. I presume he is doing this because he wants exclusive rights to all the backcountry in his very large tenure and anything near it as well. His ranting is just that, ranting! He is trying to baffle the public with false accusations. “ snowmobilers are out of control. They go into closed areas without caring about anybody else,” he says. Some do, most do not. I have heard of heli ski pilots buzzing mountain goats up close, high on the mountain, showing them off to their wealthy Euro clients. I have heard of them buzzing caribou in the past as well. Does that make heli ski operations all bad? Some probably are, most are not. I really doubt he spent up to $20000 for each of the 4 “unpaid?..” rescues he did this year.
Any commercially guided trip in potentially hazardous terrain, whether it is skiing, snowshoeing, snowmobiling, white water rafting should be regulated. Any self guided trip should not, you should be responsible for yourself. If search and rescue costs become an issue we should consider other options. In France where with rescues being performed everyday they charge the people for rescues. For a small fee you can buy rescue insurance to cover any rescue costs. It is big business, as simple as that.
He is quoted in the Province article "it's totally unacceptable that people are dying in large numbers. It's an epidemic,”.” I do not think “epidemic” is correct. Yes is a shame anyone has to die but that is the nature of living in snow country. Statistically speaking, in the last 10 years, according to the stats from Avalanche.org (The avalanche association from the US), there has been:
Skier Fatalities = 71 in Canada, 129 in the US
Snowmobiler Fatalities = 54 in Canada, 124 in the US
Other Fatalities = 27 in Canada, 64 in the US
(Other includes climbers, roofs avalanching, snow shoers, etc)
With over 20 years of skiing and snowmobiling in the mountains of south eastern B.C. I have noticed backcountry skiing fatalities spike in the past when many skiers were ignorant to avalanche phenomena. With more and more users out there and the fatalities not increasing (if anything decreasing) it tells me the spike in their fatalities caused many of them to get educated and to be less ignorant while in avalanche terrain. I think snowmobilers are going through a similar trend. With more and more snowmobilers out there playing in avalanche terrain we were bound to have a spike in fatalities. With this years spike in fatalities, there will be more awareness about avalanche phenomena for all back country users, especially snowmobilers and an increase in avalanche education for snowmobilers.
I agree with his quote “years of experience in the back country are needed to be safe.” But there are still inherent risks traveling in avalanche terrain. On Jan 20 /03, 7 skiers died while being guided by with out a doubt, one of the most knowledgeable guides in the industry on the Durand glacier. 12 days later 17 skiers were caught in an avalanche 40 km away, 15 were buried and 7 died. Accidents happen. Many fatalities are with ACMG guides. The heli skiing industry has its’ fair share of fatalities. 2 Avalanche technicians died up in Terrace while at work. The more I learn about avalanche phenomena, the more I realize how complex assessing avalanche hazard is.
With over a 1000 days of backcountry skiing/ ski mountaineering under my belt I do know it is more difficult to assess avalanche hazard when I am riding my snowmobile compared to skiing especially when I can cover so much more terrain on a given day. Snowmobilers have to use more caution because of this.
There is no need to put down one or the other. We all use the backcountry for our general well being and I believe by being out there we gain more respect for our environment.
Yes there will be more avalanche fatalities from all of the user groups. Will there be more avalanche fatalities than smoking related fatalities? Motorvehicle fatalities? Obesity related fatalities? How about smog related fatalities from living in Toronto or Vancouver? Probably not even close.
I just wish the media would cover the facts and not just some biased big business.
Thanks, from a backcountry user.
I think it is obvious that Mike Weigle is using this years spike in snowmobile avalanche fatalities for his own benefit to exclude snowmobilers from using the backcountry around his tenure. I presume he is doing this because he wants exclusive rights to all the backcountry in his very large tenure and anything near it as well. His ranting is just that, ranting! He is trying to baffle the public with false accusations. “ snowmobilers are out of control. They go into closed areas without caring about anybody else,” he says. Some do, most do not. I have heard of heli ski pilots buzzing mountain goats up close, high on the mountain, showing them off to their wealthy Euro clients. I have heard of them buzzing caribou in the past as well. Does that make heli ski operations all bad? Some probably are, most are not. I really doubt he spent up to $20000 for each of the 4 “unpaid?..” rescues he did this year.
Any commercially guided trip in potentially hazardous terrain, whether it is skiing, snowshoeing, snowmobiling, white water rafting should be regulated. Any self guided trip should not, you should be responsible for yourself. If search and rescue costs become an issue we should consider other options. In France where with rescues being performed everyday they charge the people for rescues. For a small fee you can buy rescue insurance to cover any rescue costs. It is big business, as simple as that.
He is quoted in the Province article "it's totally unacceptable that people are dying in large numbers. It's an epidemic,”.” I do not think “epidemic” is correct. Yes is a shame anyone has to die but that is the nature of living in snow country. Statistically speaking, in the last 10 years, according to the stats from Avalanche.org (The avalanche association from the US), there has been:
Skier Fatalities = 71 in Canada, 129 in the US
Snowmobiler Fatalities = 54 in Canada, 124 in the US
Other Fatalities = 27 in Canada, 64 in the US
(Other includes climbers, roofs avalanching, snow shoers, etc)
With over 20 years of skiing and snowmobiling in the mountains of south eastern B.C. I have noticed backcountry skiing fatalities spike in the past when many skiers were ignorant to avalanche phenomena. With more and more users out there and the fatalities not increasing (if anything decreasing) it tells me the spike in their fatalities caused many of them to get educated and to be less ignorant while in avalanche terrain. I think snowmobilers are going through a similar trend. With more and more snowmobilers out there playing in avalanche terrain we were bound to have a spike in fatalities. With this years spike in fatalities, there will be more awareness about avalanche phenomena for all back country users, especially snowmobilers and an increase in avalanche education for snowmobilers.
I agree with his quote “years of experience in the back country are needed to be safe.” But there are still inherent risks traveling in avalanche terrain. On Jan 20 /03, 7 skiers died while being guided by with out a doubt, one of the most knowledgeable guides in the industry on the Durand glacier. 12 days later 17 skiers were caught in an avalanche 40 km away, 15 were buried and 7 died. Accidents happen. Many fatalities are with ACMG guides. The heli skiing industry has its’ fair share of fatalities. 2 Avalanche technicians died up in Terrace while at work. The more I learn about avalanche phenomena, the more I realize how complex assessing avalanche hazard is.
With over a 1000 days of backcountry skiing/ ski mountaineering under my belt I do know it is more difficult to assess avalanche hazard when I am riding my snowmobile compared to skiing especially when I can cover so much more terrain on a given day. Snowmobilers have to use more caution because of this.
There is no need to put down one or the other. We all use the backcountry for our general well being and I believe by being out there we gain more respect for our environment.
Yes there will be more avalanche fatalities from all of the user groups. Will there be more avalanche fatalities than smoking related fatalities? Motorvehicle fatalities? Obesity related fatalities? How about smog related fatalities from living in Toronto or Vancouver? Probably not even close.
I just wish the media would cover the facts and not just some biased big business.
Thanks, from a backcountry user.
ZRrrr
Active VIP Member
Great letter!
deep blue
Active member
This just in...
Mike Wiegele says snowmobiliers are responsible for the Swine Flu Pandemic.
Mike Wiegele says snowmobiliers are responsible for the Swine Flu Pandemic.
hilinerider
Active member
Billy Boy
Active VIP Member
It's not Global Warming anymore it is "CLIMATE CHANGE" can't you guys keep up with the latest fear mongering!!!!
Billy Boy
Billy Boy
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