B.C. backcountry snowmobile ban

[retiredpop]

.... but has that been anywheres in the media, or just posted on the site? the average joe who has formed his opinion of sledding isn't likely to stumble upon that, we need to get that message out there!

I just heard back from the Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs and they are attempting to get "the other side of the story" heard through the media.

He went on to say that the government is not interested in further restrictions to snowmobile use in the backcountry and the government also does not put much stock in Wiegele's claims.

This news makes me feel a lot better. However as mentioned on here sledders have to join their local and provincial clubs just to give the associations some real clout when they are dealing with government people. If everyone could convince even one non member to join the provincial association it would really help. What's a few bucks if it means we get to keep doing what we all love!

 

[ferniesnow]

I have just read this entire thread. Holy crap did it stir up stuff. I am a student pilot and a snowboarder, and most importantly a sledder. I noticed that the topic of technological advances never came up. I started riding in the mountains on a phaser II long tracked to 136" with 3/4" lugs! Now that was a mountain machine. As technology advanced, so did my riding ability and my experience (ie. terrain awareness). Now, since the oil boom, I have met many people on 400 horse power machines that have never ridden in the mountains before. I have heard that inexperience has played a part in many of this season's tragedies.

Now for what I have done wrong as a rider:
-It was several seasons before I took avalanche training, and for that I am sorry.
-There were also several seasons I did not buy trail passes, especially in Alberta, because I was not riding on the clubs' groomed trails. Wrong attitude.

After this season I promise to always buy both Alberta and BC passes, as well as to support the local clubs. The extra $100 per season is equivelant to what I lose in loose change every year. I did not previously think about supporting the clubs to act as a voice or advocate for the sport.

As for MW, I too feel he is simply trying to keep it for his business. His previous statements about assisting the woodland cariboo management disgusted me, as a Longranger hovering at 1500' terrorizes those animals for miles. Think of how fast you lose sight and sound of your friends on their sleds. Anyway, he has been bashed enough, so I will simply find a way to support the sport politcally, academically, and professionally.

Well written and succinct. I agree totally. Thanks for a positve spin on this subject.

 

[ferniesnow]

I just heard back from the Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs and they are attempting to get "the other side of the story" heard through the media.

He went on to say that the government is not interested in further restrictions to snowmobile use in the backcountry and the government also does not put much stock in Wiegele's claims.

This news makes me feel a lot better. However as mentioned on here sledders have to join their local and provincial clubs just to give the associations some real clout when they are dealing with government people. If everyone could convince even one non member to join the provincial association it would really help. What's a few bucks if it means we get to keep doing what we all love!

Now that the Liberal's have been re-elected we have a little breathing room. With the greenies tied into the other party there could have been serious changes real fast!

We still have to keep up the work and try very diligently to improve our image, our back-country stewardship, and get rid of the attitude that a small percentage of our riders seem to carry around with them!!

 

[elephant rider]

MW was on CBC radio 1,he said; quote I have nothing against sledding & I encourage the sport....?? just last week. He was verbally taking more of a political stance in that interview!!!!! & it sounded like more of a "pass off" issue for recovery!! 20,000 in total, gee must be hard to give a little, EH? A very well known snowboarder was involved in a ghetto bird crash back in the day in blue. insurance costs increase after repeated insidences........ every donkey has an opinion, just ask SHREK!!!!

 

[retiredpop]

MW was on CBC radio 1,he said; quote I have nothing against sledding & I encourage the sport....?? just last week. He was verbally taking more of a political stance in that interview!!!!! & it sounded like more of a "pass off" issue for recovery!! 20,000 in total, gee must be hard to give a little, EH?

Yeh, I think he found out that it's not so easy to BS everyone. It's too easy for people to get the facts for themselves. He also found out he doesn't have the influence he thought he had with the gov't.

 

[retiredpop]

Mike Wiegele has made another attack in the media against snowmobilers.
I just wanted to post this in case you have not heard about the latest effort by Wiegele in his quest to secure the BC backcountry exclusively for his ski operation. This is an article published in the

CLEARWATER TIMES MAY 19/2009

Wiegele calls for ban on snowmobiles

By Keith McNeill - Clearwater Times

Published: May 18, 2009 5:00 AM

Mike Wiegele has upped the ante.

A few weeks ago the Blue River heli-ski operator called for a public inquiry into the large number of
snowmobilers killed by avalanches this past winter.

Now he wants the government to ban all snowmobiling on Crown Land until provincial policy and guidelines
are established for mechanized mountain travel for all areas proposed for snowmobile use.

“I’m getting tired of digging bodies out of the snow,” he said. “We had four rescues this winter that involved
our entire operation; we had to stop everything, stranding some of our skiers in the mountains to save
snowmobilers from themselves.”

“The government needs to put an immediate end to this madness before B.C.’s international reputation or safety
is eroded even further,” he added. “Every time a snowmobiler dies, we see cancellations here. People think it
must be unsafe everywhere.”

According to Wiegele, the provincial government has turned a blind eye as under-trained and irresponsible tour
operators endanger the lives of sledders by luring them into the hills.

He described most of the dead riders as young Albertan flatlanders who were unaware of the inherent risks of
riding in steep, mountainous terrain.

The Blue River heli-ski operator offered eight solutions to the epidemic:

1. Place a ban on snowmobiling on Crown Land until provincial policy and guidelines are established for
mechanized mountain travel;
2. Apply Worksafe BC standards to all commercial and “not for profit/volunteer association” snowmobiling
operations;
3. The B.C. government immediately hire an independent expert inspector for all snowmobiling operations
using Crown Lands and areas proposed for snowmobiling;
4. Ensure all snowmobiling organizations have the expertise appropriate with legal liability and risk
management in adventure tourism;
5. Notify all snowmobile organizations operating in B.C. that they will be held accountable and fully
responsible for their promotion of backcountry use, including full recovery for all emergency rescue costs;
6. Install more local snow condition monitoring stations around B.C., where all user groups can easily obtain
up-to-the-minute information on snow stability;

7. Ensure all above measures are enforced through the RCMP, Compliance and Enforcement Officers, and the
Attorney General’s office; and
8. Ensure the costs of rescue, management, enforcement and regulation of the industry are born by the user
groups.
After about 40 years of operation, Mike Wiegele Helicopter Skiing now employs 180 staff and another 50
support people.

According to the Canadian Avalanche Center, avalanches killed 18 snowmobilers last winter as of April 6, out
of a total of 24 fatalities. Of the remainder, four were out-of-bound skiers, one was involved in other winter
recreation, and only one was a mechanized skier such as a heli-skier or sno-cat skier.

The Avalanche Center blamed the number of avalanche deaths on the snowpack being fundamentally weak.
This was caused by extended periods of cold weather weakening the surface layers, followed by a thick blanket
of warmer storm snow that formed a cohesive slab.

The center also noted that the number of snowmobiler deaths was up considerably while the number of
backcountry skiers killed was down. This year 70 per cent of fatalities were snowmobilers while zero were
backcountry skiers. Over the past 10 years the average has been 38 per cent snowmobilers and 29 per cent
backcountry skiers.

The center reported: “There are many people saying that backcountry skiers and heli-skiers alike are spooked by
the snowpack this year and have really altered their behavior. Snowmobilers (or at least an important contingent
of them) have not altered their behavior and are suffering the consequence.”

As of press-time late last week the B.C. Snowmobiling Federation had not responded to an email asking for
comment on Wiegele’s proposals. "

 

[retiredpop]

Here is the rebuttal given to the media from the Association of BC Snowmobile Clubs to Wiegele's latest attack. Thanks to Terry of the ABCSC for keeping us informed on this issue.



"SNOWMOBILE ACCESS TO THE BRITISH COLUMBIA
BACKCOUNTRY


Following another recent newspaper article with regard to banning all
snowmobile use on Crown lands in British Columbia, The Association of
British Columbia Snowmobile Clubs felt it necessary to respond again
to these current comments.

Recreational snowmobilers have been accessing the backcountry of
British Columbia over the past 45 years, and have been doing so in a
very safe and responsible manner.

When one considers the number of recreational snowmobilers in the
backcountry on any given weekend as opposed to other users, the
incident of injury and death associated with the sport is VERY low.

That is not too suggest that any injury or death is acceptable, nor that
some may not be avoidable, but it does suggest that most
snowmobilers are very responsible when indulging in their sport and
that these incidents are accidents which can be associated with any
form of backcountry recreation.

The British Columbia snowmobile community holds our right to
recreate in the British Columbia backcountry as close to our hearts as
our American neighbours hold the “Right to Bear Arms” to theirs.

The BC snowmobile community has recently been under attack by an
organization that is only seeking support for their own agenda, which
would appear to be one of exclusive control of public lands, at little
cost to themselves or benefit to the taxpayer, or the hundreds of
communities throughout British Columbia who benefit greatly through
recreational snowmobiling, and they have ventured on their mission to
accomplish this end in a less than stellar or forthright manner.

The main focus of the unwarranted attack on the recreational
snowmobile community is on the unfortunate loss of life this year due
to a very unusual avalanche season, but there is no reference to other
seasons where large numbers of other backcountry recreasionists lost
there lives under similar circumstances.

In the latest segment of this ongoing saga, those indulging in these
attacks are now proposing recommendations to restrict all further
snowmobile access on Crown lands until government adopts the
recommendations this group are proposing.


The latest news article has included statements noting the hardships
they have incurred in rescue operations this year as they “had four
rescues this winter that involved our entire operation”. One would
have to question this as they go on to suggest that their entire
operation consists of 180 employees, with an additional 50 people as
support staff!!

They don’t mention the possibility of having being reimbursed in some
manner for these activities through the Provincial Emergency Program
or the BC Coroners Service.

They don’t mention any accidents or loss of life associated with their
organization and related activities...

They simply identify these incidents as “madness” and state that they
are “saving snowmobilers from themselves”!

Anyone who chooses to recreate in the British Columbia backcountry
realizes there are inherent risks associated with this, and especially in
mountainous terrain. These risks are even more elevated during the
winter months. Most backcountry recreasionists identify with these
risks, and some may choose to venture on at any rate, having
considered the potential consequences. Ice Climbers and Backcountry
Skiers have been doing it for years, but we haven’t seen a call to ban
these activities.

“Over the past 30 years (1978–2007), avalanches have been
responsible for 329 deaths in Canada, with a recent rate of 14 deaths
per year. Avalanches kill a disproportionate number of young people,
with victims most commonly being in their 20s. Outdoor recreation
accounts for 92% of avalanche deaths in Canada, and 88% of deaths
occur in the provinces of British Columbia and Alberta”. (1)

Of the avalanche fatalities cited above, Backcountry Skiers
represented 30%, Ice climbers 6%, Out of bounds skiers 18%;
Snowmobilers represented 22% of the fatalities, whereas helicat
skiers represented 21%. (1)

(1)
(Patterns of death among avalanche fatalities: a 21-year review-Jeff Boyd, MBBS,
Pascal Haegeli, PhD, Riyad B. Abu-Laban, MD MHSc, Michael Shuster, MD and
John C. Butt, MD CM)

If there is any suggestion to close the backcountry to recreational
snowmobiling, statistics suggest that we should equally consider
closing it to the Helicat Ski Industry and Backcountry skiers as they
have a MUCH higher percentage of fatalities relative to the numbers
recreating in our backcountry at any given time throughout the winter
season. (Statistics suggest that Helicat skiers operated for
approximately 88,000 skier days, Canada wide, in 2006/2007,
whereas recreational snowmobilers operated for approximately
350,000 snowmobiler days in BC alone during the same period.)

The recreational snowmobile community realises how ridiculous a
suggestion to close our backcountry to any user group would be, and
would be ashamed to be a supporter of any proposal along these lines.

The foregoing being said, it must be pointed out that the greatest
majority of Helicat ski operators, Commercial snowmobile operators,
backcountry skiers and Recreational snowmobilers coexist in the
backcountry with a minimum of conflicts overall, and are supportive of
each other’s activities.

If any group wishes exclusive control of specific areas in our
backcountry; BUY THE LAND AND IMPOSE ALL OF THE
RESTRICTIONS YOU WISH. As long as it is Crown land, work in
cooperation and harmony with the other users, the citizens and guests
of British Columbia!

We all have a right to share the use of our Crown lands.


Snowmobile Clubs

Box 48
Valemount, BC
V0E 2Z0 "






 

[pipes]

Retiredpop you are the snomobilers angel. you have been following Mike and his agenda closely. while the ret of us ar into the summer actiities you are posting the winter worries. Thank you so much for this post. Keep up the posts.

And every one else onn this site. Lets not let Mike Wiggleworm suceed at shutin' down the back country. "United we stand, divided we fall."

 

[bbtoys]

You can see all the replys as the ABC guys respond at, abcsnow.ca

 

[spuds]

:

This just in...

Mike Wiegele says snowmobiliers are responsible for the Swine Flu Pandemic.

poor Kermit

here's a thought: this character is trying to get more virgin powder for his operation and increase his profits right? so for next season anyone who can, should go to blue river and cover as much fresh powder as possible that is in mike W's chosen area. Encroach on everything that is safe in the open areas thus forcing him to fly farther and increasing his costs
also a dumb question what is his company name?
so I know who not to use
have fun and play safe

 

[heyjude]

Great to see that the ABC Snowmobile Association has released a statement in answer to Weigle's comments.

We have yet to see any statements from the BCSF (BC Snowmobile Federation) - where are they in all this ?? The same place they were when the Cariboo Closure Issues came up in 2007 ??

 

[Rufus777]

I sent him an email a month ago when he was on the local Kamloops radio station making those same comments, it wasn't one that I think he liked receiving!! Go to Mike Wiegle heli skiing, find the contact us link and send him your opinion!! And remember to tell anyone who is thinking about going heli skiing to use somebody else's business, not his!!

 

[CUSO]

Great to see that the ABC Snowmobile Association has released a statement in answer to Weigle's comments.

We have yet to see any statements from the BCSF (BC Snowmobile Federation) - where are they in all this ?? The same place they were when the Cariboo Closure Issues came up in 2007 ??

ABC is doing a great job, but is the word getting out?

SHHHH!!! we have to keep quiet, and not be public.... Wiegele might get upset, and we will have to conform to more of his restricting demands....

 

[heyjude]

ABC is doing a great job, but is the word getting out?

SHHHH!!! we have to keep quiet, and not be public.... Wiegele might get upset, and we will have to conform to more of his restricting demands....

ABC is a smaller organization than the BCSF but they seem to be much more proactive in their support of the local snowmobile clubs and their issues. Hopefully the message is getting out there. Weigle is sounding more like a loon every time he talks to the media.

 

[avalanchesafety]

Great post. Obviously Wiegele is going off because of the number of fatalities this year. It was a really shitty year and lots of mistakes were made which hopefully we as a community will learn from (I have already seen an increase in the avi courses i offer). But banning snowmobiling, what the #@$k! You didn't anyone asking for a ban of backcountry skiing in 2003 when there were 27 avalanche fatalities, the majority of them skiers, and many of them guided. I think most of us just felt bad for the families affected.

I fully realiaze the risk when i go into the mountains and thank god that Wiegle has virtually no support from the educated public or from the backcountry ski world, including HeliCat Canada which does not support his position. We don't need more rules in our society, how about we take responsibility for the risks that we take and if things go south we blame ourselves.

Wiegle is on his own program for almost everything. Wiegle is not a member of HeliCat Canada and does not use ACMG guides, he has his own training program for guides which is not recognized by Helicat Canada, because presumably it does not meet their safety requirements.

We as a community do need to do a lot more to make good decisions in the mountains and reduce fatalities but that cannot and should not be regulated.

Ps- let's all go to blue river next year and hit all the pow we can.

 

[bbtoys]

Don't get goated into riding the out of bounds area this year or he will win because they will bring in a Section 58 closure and that will legally shut that area down to sledder's.

 

[spitfire]

After reading the posts from mr. Wiegele and the bcsf, it is apparent that the bcsf has gathered the necessary facts that in any debate over who should be allowed to use the back country, sledders would win by a landslide. The bcsf should be thanked by all of us for their dignified and respectful way it was presented. However, we all should continue to be diligent as people like mr. Wiegele will continue to use tragedies as an avenue to promote and achieve their own personal agenda. As a proud canadian, i can only hope that when we allow people to come to our country and buy up the land that belongs to us, that they would have enough respect to realize that it is for all to use and enjoy. If they cannot accept this fact. Go back where you came from and buy some land.

 

[pipes]

After reading the posts from mr. Wiegele and the bcsf, it is apparent that the bcsf has gathered the necessary facts that in any debate over who should be allowed to use the back country, sledders would win by a landslide. The bcsf should be thanked by all of us for their dignified and respectful way it was presented. However, we all should continue to be diligent as people like mr. Wiegele will continue to use tragedies as an avenue to promote and achieve their own personal agenda. As a proud canadian, i can only hope that when we allow people to come to our country and buy up the land that belongs to us, that they would have enough respect to realize that it is for all to use and enjoy. If they cannot accept this fact. Go back where you came from and buy some land.

well put spitfire. hope that a lot of people read this thread.

 

[bbtoys]

After reading the posts from mr. Wiegele and the bcsf, it is apparent that the bcsf has gathered the necessary facts that in any debate over who should be allowed to use the back country, sledders would win by a landslide. The bcsf should be thanked by all of us for their dignified and respectful way it was presented. However, we all should continue to be diligent as people like mr. Wiegele will continue to use tragedies as an avenue to promote and achieve their own personal agenda. As a proud canadian, i can only hope that when we allow people to come to our country and buy up the land that belongs to us, that they would have enough respect to realize that it is for all to use and enjoy. If they cannot accept this fact. Go back where you came from and buy some land.

BCSF has given no reply to this issue, only ABC has.

 

[spitfire]

bcsf has given no reply to this issue, only abc has.

sorry, my mistake. Thought i read bcsf when it was in fact abc that replied to mr. Wiegele,s comments. I don't fully understand all the different organizations that represent sledders, as i live in alberta and haven't had the opportunity to engage in any political rhetoric. In the crowsnest pass, there has been substantial limitations put on most motorized off road vehicles. I did have an opportunity to watch and listen to the locals who tried to save their right to access crown land. The long and short of it was that they lost most of the access areas that they used for may years.