area closure for profit

[dirtbikersledder]

Re. snowmobile area closure for profit using caribou herd population statistics.
As sledders we are getting slowly pushed out of our favorite riding areas and it is quite unfortunate that for the most part we have been just standing back and watching these closures take place. Some companies have been manipulating statistics, and government organizations to manifest their agenda which is to keep this back country closed to snowmobilers and maintain their profit (heli ski, cat ski tour operators) using Caribou as the catalyst to cause these area closures. It is quite obvious that buying trail passes and club memberships has not been enough to prevent these closures, we as sledders must form an organization in which we have a fairer say in these negotiations. I appreciate the efforts put forth by the clubs and associations in British Columbia and Alberta, but these clubs need a louder voice. There seems to be more power with one unified organization, which will require funding and cooperation from ALL mountian sledders, if we can spend tens of thousands of dollars buying accesories, performance parts,fuel, hotels, beer, we definetly can donate a small portion of this sport invested money to keep our sport alive. Web sites and forums, like this one, are a great place to get information out there and to gain support, also our sled manufacturers and after market part builders and suppliers are a great medium to convey information and get support. Is there any existing organization out there that I can get involved in to fight these closures for profit? Any questions or comments pm back.

 

[Shibby!]

Re. snowmobile area closure for profit using caribou herd population statistics.
As sledders we are getting slowly pushed out of our favorite riding areas and it is quite unfortunate that for the most part we have been just standing back and watching these closures take place. Some companies have been manipulating statistics, and government organizations to manifest their agenda which is to keep this back country closed to snowmobilers and maintain their profit (heli ski, cat ski tour operators) using Caribou as the catalyst to cause these area closures. It is quite obvious that buying trail passes and club memberships has not been enough to prevent these closures, we as sledders must form an organization in which we have a fairer say in these negotiations. I appreciate the efforts put forth by the clubs and associations in British Columbia and Alberta, but these clubs need a louder voice. There seems to be more power with one unified organization, which will require funding and cooperation from ALL mountian sledders, if we can spend tens of thousands of dollars buying accesories, performance parts,fuel, hotels, beer, we definetly can donate a small portion of this sport invested money to keep our sport alive. Web sites and forums, like this one, are a great place to get information out there and to gain support, also our sled manufacturers and after market part builders and suppliers are a great medium to convey information and get support. Is there any existing organization out there that I can get involved in to fight these closures for profit? Any questions or comments pm back.

I agree. This happens with all outdoor sports. Being part of a fairly agressive dirt bike organizations, I would also join any sled organization and help in any way possible to keep areas open and the sport alive.


It's scary how much " dirty work " is done with these dealings. Things get ugly and lawyers and lots of legal things are required. Without numbers and dollars, this just won't happen.

 

[dirtbikersledder]

WEAK! Out of 109 veiws only one true mountian sledder response, i guess when all of your favorite riding areas are limited to just valley bottom trail riding (fs roads only) and NO alpine or sub-alpine access, the majority would just sit back and watch this happen, and it will! Tree huggers and heli skiers will win again....nice.

 

[pipes]

WEAK! Out of 109 veiws only one true mountian sledder response, i guess when all of your favorite riding areas are limited to just valley bottom trail riding (fs roads only) and NO alpine or sub-alpine access, the majority would just sit back and watch this happen, and it will! Tree huggers and heli skiers will win again....nice.

I wouldn't call it week. we all belong to some snowmobile association which fight for us. I personally by An ASA pass every rear, and this year am joining the Mcbride snowmobile club.

 

[mach123]

I also have ASA and buy the valemount membership also, let me know and I will be there. Thanks

 

[dirtbikersledder]

Hey good on you guys for this support, unfortunatly the reality is that a very small amount of this money is allocated to keep areas open, The mcbride club was not even aware of the closures in their area, we need to do more before it is too late. Write letters to BC MLAs, sign BCSF petitions, use this medium to get the word out that we are pissed off and we have rights to these areas too.

 

[scotts]

Sorry pipes but the ASA wont do squat when it comes to standing up to gov and special interest groups. Untill the actual people/voters of these small towns and communities start voicing very large concerns to their MLA,s nothing will happen.
I really hate to say it but a lot of local clubs really arnt that concered with back country areas as they sell no trail passes to these areas therefore no revenue.
I have been saying for a long time on here that the long term plan of government is to confine sledder to sancitioned areas and thats it, but knowone listens.So have fun riding climina, and allencreek while watching places like vale and blue river die a slow death

 

[dirtbikersledder]

Hey scotts, good points. My motive for this thread is to see how much support can be gained before I take further steps (petitions to MLAs, large donations to BCSF). Are any lawyers sledders, I need help to translate BC gov. documentation to more laymans terms.

 

[moyiesledhead]

As sledders we are getting slowly pushed out of our favorite riding areas and it is quite unfortunate that for the most part we have been just standing back and watching these closures take place.

Wow! That's a pretty bold statement! Now that I've calmed down enough to not type what I really want to say, I can respond.

Many, many individual club volunteers and the BCSF have been fighting very hard on YOUR behalf for a long time on this issue. I've personally spent the last 6 years spending more time in land use meetings that almost turned into fist fights than I have riding. I might add "Public" land use meetings, that I couldn't get other snowmobilers to attend to save my soul. No one cares till the signs go up, then all hell breaks loose! Why didn't you do this? Why did you agree to that?

Well.....where were you when it mattered? Some of us have NOT been standing back and letting it happen, and I'm getting more than a little tired of hearing it!

There. Rant over. You made some good points after that shot though. We tried repeatedly to get the same rules for commercial operators as for us, but in the end it all comes down to money and politics. Government can't just take away a commercial tenure at will. It would cost them a fortune to buy them back, and they're just not gonna go there. It came down to agreeing to the closures we ended up with, or losing a whole lot more area. We don't like it any more than the rest of you do, but at least we tried our best!

Ken Philpot
Land use Co-ordinator
Cranbrook Snowmobile Club

 

[dirtbikersledder]

Hey Ken, sorry this sounded like a personal attack, this message was directed to mountain sledders in general not your organization. The strong language was intended to wake up the guys who sit around until it is to late. I do appreciate your clubs efforts, but you must agree that we can do more collectively.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Hey Ken, sorry this sounded like a personal attack, this message was directed to mountain sledders in general not your organization. The strong language was intended to wake up the guys who sit around until it is to late. I do appreciate your clubs efforts, but you must agree that we can do more collectively.

I'll agree that we "could" do more collectively, but I've pretty much given up on that happening. Way too many sledders will whine and complain about it, but in the end do nothing to help. This has probably been more frustrating for those of us that are trying to do something about it than the actual process has been. We expect to be butting heads with Engo's and Government. Doing it with fellow sledders just makes me wish I'd never gotten involved in the first place.

Sorry....I guess that was another rant. I promised myself I wouldn't do that any more!

 

[fargineyesore]

I think a letter writing campaign to the MLAs, Gov officials responsible and Premier would be a start.

Not sure if this should be a letter regarding closures in BC generally or targeted to specific areas. If someone has any info on those responsible for making the decisions, would help. I'd write a letter and I think others would too.

 

[fargineyesore]

Decisions can be reversed.

 

[moyiesledhead]

It's sure a lot easier if they're never made in the first place though. I guess it's never too late to try.

 

[julioE]

even worse will be the frustration when you rally the troops show to all the meetings with 2-3 times the number of the skiers. Run threw all the debates and they still close the areas you are trying to keep open. We have been faceing this here in idaho for years. It makes me sympathetic to the guys who say to hell with it and ride closed areas even tho it makes us all look bad. Especially when a closed area shares a parking lot with a open and in 5 years I have seen one group of skiers, who didnt even use the ski area because there are no trails. I fear its a battle that cant be won but keep up the fight. julio

 

[Shibby!]

It's sure a lot easier if they're never made in the first place though. I guess it's never too late to try.

Wise words.

It's 100x easier to fight the decision then trying to change decisions already made.

Lets not let this slip away. It's way to easy for them to make these decisions.

 

[Mongrol]

Its sometimes hard to do battle with professional whiners whose whole purpose in life is to complain & protest about protecting things like the "breeding areas of the hairy Sasquatch".

Politicians & bureaucrats respond to the squeaking wheel - so squeak louder than the whiners.

 

[mtnluvr]

This is obviously a hot topic, why can't this site/forum be used as a starting point for petitions against these issues. 395 views in a very short time= a well viewed platform. I don't have the knowledge to lead this but it sounds like some of you guys are very involved in the movement and I for one appreciate it. Just my 2cents

 

[Orrin]

The few who actively participate in defending this sport are hugely outnumbered by the apathetic crowds who give little or no support. I give my support to the Blue River Powder Packers and the BCSF every year, I support the hotels, restaraunts, gas stations etc. who are like minded and avoid those that aren't. Should there be a legal fund set up specifically to defend riding areas across Western Canada as a whole I will support that as well. The larger the group that can be orginized the larger the impact on the politicians will be.

Thanks and appreciation should be given (and often) to those who spend countless hours of their spare time working to keep this sport going, to fight the MW, to keep the cabins maintained, to groom and maintain the trails and to do the many other jobs that somebody has to do.

 

[fargineyesore]

The few who actively participate in defending this sport are hugely outnumbered by the apathetic crowds who give little or no support. I give my support to the Blue River Powder Packers and the BCSF every year, I support the hotels, restaraunts, gas stations etc. who are like minded and avoid those that aren't. Should there be a legal fund set up specifically to defend riding areas across Western Canada as a whole I will support that as well. The larger the group that can be orginized the larger the impact on the politicians will be.

Thanks and appreciation should be given (and often) to those who spend countless hours of their spare time working to keep this sport going, to fight the MW, to keep the cabins maintained, to groom and maintain the trails and to do the many other jobs that somebody has to do.

If you check the McBride Dore thread, it looks as if the BCSF did nothing to help the locals there fight the Dore closure because the McBride club does not have enough members. If that is true, why support the BCSF when they pick and choose who to help?