Alpha track speed thread

[Caper11]

Still not sure what ur saying? I know I wouldnt want to gear my sled for 42mph though. So reaching full shift on a pow climb isnt going to happen.

https://www.ibackshift.com/article/shift-ratio-193.asp


https://www.ibackshift.com/article/gearing-150.asp

 

[lilduke]

https://www.ibackshift.com/article/shift-ratio-193.asp


https://www.ibackshift.com/article/gearing-150.asp

I know how a clutch works, just not sure what you were getting at Caper.

all good though

 

[DeNytroguy]

Still not sure what ur saying? I know I wouldnt want to gear my sled for 42mph though. So reaching full shift on a pow climb isnt going to happen.

I agree here, you can't clutch for full shift out in a powder climb. You'd be pinging of the rev limiter on hardpack???

 

[Caper11]

I know how a clutch works, just not sure what you were getting at Caper.

all good though

All the info to answer your question is in the links I provided. To be honest I’m not sure where I lost you.
If your sled is geared to 60mph at 1:1, at 42mph both clutches will not be at 1:1.
I gave an example how to figure out on paper where the secondary would be at a certain MPH, cause JMCX was not wrong in his comment.

I didnt mean to confuse anyone.

 

[lilduke]

All the info to answer your question is in the links I provided. To be honest I’m not sure where I lost you.
If your sled is geared to 60mph at 1:1, at 42mph both clutches will not be at 1:1.
I gave an example how to figure out on paper where the secondary would be at a certain MPH, cause JMCX was not wrong in his comment.

I didnt mean to confuse anyone.

I personally lost you at "lol that's an interesting thought"

then everything after that was only adding to the confusion.


thanks for clearing that up haha

 

[maxwell]

I personally lost you at "lol that's an interesting thought"

then everything after that was only adding to the confusion.


thanks for clearing that up haha

You and me both haha

 

[lilduke]

I have another question. all other thing being the same how is a clutch kit going to give you a higher track speed at full throttle?

if clutch kit A and clutch kit B are pulling the same rpm how's one going to have more track speed? unless one kit is slipping real bad or something.

you can change back shifting, upshift , engagement rpm ext but how is it going to get more track speed at full throttle?

can't wrap my little brain around that one

 

[Caper11]

I have another question. all other thing being the same how is a clutch kit going to give you a higher track speed at full throttle?

if clutch kit A and clutch kit B are pulling the same rpm how's one going to have more track speed? unless one kit is slipping real bad or something.

you can change back shifting, upshift , engagement rpm ext but how is it going to get more track speed at full throttle?

can't wrap my little brain around that one

A kit, when it’s designed properly can be more efficient and effective at getting the power to the ground. When everything is working insync, the sled can build higher trackspeed and maintain it.

There is many different ways at obtaining that result. Clutching is a personal preference. Kit A thats tuned to the builders preference, and parts choice can have one advantage over kit B’s. It doesnt mean one kit is worse than the other, it just the laws of physics take over. “Yah dont get something for nothing” the trick IMO is to minimize the losses when looking for gains. For example sacrificing belt life.


Kanedogs sled for example uses extremely high gearing ratio with a secondary efficient enough to utilize that setup. I have no experience with the secondary he uses, but his theory is sound. Id like to see what his setup can actually do when his sled is running correctly.

 

[MP Kid]

unless one kit is slipping real bad or something

That is exactly the difference....

 

[lilduke]

That is exactly the difference....

thank you. that explanation makes sense.

 

[kanedog]

The Jaws pipe on my Suzuki liked more RPM i ran 8450 and it worked good. The C-tec calls for the same range so maybe you could gain a little performance with more RPM. It did make a noticeable difference on the old engine.

It’s my friends sled so I will let him know 8450 works good with the Jawz pipe. He likes his sleds to scream so he will like that. The pipe was for a 2019 but Jawz says it will work. No rpm recommendation but it’s a new top end design so I’m a little suspect if the pipe was extensively tested on the 2020. I will report back his findings at a higher rpm. Great info. Thx

 

[kanedog]

I have another question. all other thing being the same how is a clutch kit going to give you a higher track speed at full throttle?

if clutch kit A and clutch kit B are pulling the same rpm how's one going to have more track speed? unless one kit is slipping real bad or something.

you can change back shifting, upshift , engagement rpm ext but how is it going to get more track speed at full throttle?

can't wrap my little brain around that one

Excellent questions and excellent way of thinking.

My answer is about the same as Caper11’s.

You can get a bit more performance from fine tuning stock clutches. Weights, helix and springs can be changed maybe enough to prevent belt slip and get more efficiency so the power goes to the ground instead of being wasted on the clutches. With stock clutches there’s only so much you can do so you are correct. On that note, I have yet to see a “clutch kit” that comes with gears or heck, even works for that matter. Clutching is different for each rider/weight.

The next step is lower gearing and a different secondary to have the lowest power loss through the clutches. This allows more power available to the track. Then work on traction through a balance between the primary and secondary. The secondary is the brain so in the end, it should control how the power is applied to the track through backshifting and torque feedback. This is where traction factor comes in. The stock clutches limit what can be done but are good for 99% of riders.

Again, great question and observation.