maxwell
Active VIP Member
forsure. going to grab some heavier bolts
850 turbo 165 (stock clutch) vs Xpert 165 (iBackshift)
- Thread starter Dynamo^Joe
- Start date
forsure. going to grab some heavier bolts
skegpro
Active VIP Member
I guess the idea would be to add weight so you can get to clicker three in average conditions and then you could go up or down depending on snow load?
pfi572
Active VIP Member
Can’t believe you fellas don’t load these 850’s till they wont pull anymore clutch weight ??
These engines have good torque so might as well use it .
Less spring force on both ends can help as well .
Never understood the high engagements either .
These engines have good torque so might as well use it .
Less spring force on both ends can help as well .
Never understood the high engagements either .
Caper11
Active VIP Member
Its the same principle, you have to start from somewhere to develop a baseline kit.
The vid was a great example of the difference the clutching made, against a NA clutched sled.
Remember the turbo had the factory “steep and deep” setup before Joe put his goodies in it.
Joes tests guys will help him fine tune it.
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- Thread starter
- #26
Dynamo^Joe
Active VIP Member
If your alleging that what you seen was a "drag racing tuning", I dont know what facts I stated upon which anyone can conclude this is drag race tuning.
"oh thats just a drag race tuning"
Question; did someone tell you that or is that of your own knowledge?
instead of alleging "drag race" then facts constituting "drag race" should be set out. It has x y and z so its a drag racing. Just because we're running on a course is not strong enough fact to label that.
The Cupcake (strawberry/white) Xpert has a mountain clutch kit in it that's setup for the steep and deep and was developed by a small team of sledders that live in the mountains and myself (you have to start somewhere).
At 900ft asl, it runs a 24.7 gram pivot bolt assembly. In Revelstoke at 7000 feet in Keystone it runs a 15.4gram pivot bolt assembly. [i been there myself with 2 of my test guys, one from Innisfail and Eatonville WA]
I thought the major point of developing a clutch kit is to make more track speed than stock clutching. Like the stock clutching had 68kmh track speed in Keystone and with kit it runs 73~74kmh. We go side by side on a hill in Keystone or Griffin and the kit pulls 3mph more track speed and has stronger backshift to boot. So now what reason would this kind of setup not be developed in a drag race to test out first, before you go to the steep and deep?
Mountain clutching IS a drag race to maximum track speed equilibrium. How much track speed can you get in deep snow to the track speed hitting equilibrium? The difference between conventional drag racing is there is a set-out finish line. In mountain riding the finish line is when the rider chooses to let off the throttle. I was climbing this hill about 1/2 a km past shovel-out and getting 72km track speed till I had to turn out.
If we go to cooke city at 10000 feet, the only thing im going to do from here in Thunder Bay to 10000 feet is change the pivot bolt weight from 24.7 grams to 11.8 grams, not even changing the clicker. And I will place $$$ that i'll have 3mph more track speed in a pull than a stock clutch cupcake. And the backshifting is so strong, I can read a newspaper coming down a hill. The kit in that cupcake can hold engine braking to 12kmh (7mph) and have a few hundred customers that will affirm that.
Its not a drag race kit. You just seen the sleds perform on a flat surface. Go do the same thing at 6500 feet in 2 ft of fresh and you'll find the same results as the video.
Sometimes conventional wisdom don't predict actual matters.
If we have 2 turbo 165's beside each other and you make the rules, the one with my kit is going to make 3mph more track speed (at least) at 6500 feet elevation. And have stronger backshift, and smoother takeoff and lower engagement speed and all these other trickle down benefits.
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tex78
Active VIP Member
Back in the Rev and Xp days
My buddy Jack rondo used to be a test guy for ya and I guess still is , I've bought your stuff cause I know his sleds work lol
But the last two sleds I've got, a 14 xm and a 16 t3174 I felt stock is pretty good
So when I put the used kit in my 16, I'll see lol
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- Thread starter
- #30
Dynamo^Joe
Active VIP Member
You are feigning a desire to see a clutch setup work in a test that you could not pull of yourself, nor i doubt you've ever seen do that. The real desire is to see an attempt, fail, so that you might have the joy of scoffing at anyone who tries. Friend, I think the only "money" you'll be shown is someone who eats your lunch by your own standards and doesn't tell you how he did it.
Dragonalain
Active VIP Member
Tough crowd here on doo and mud. Sounds like the doolaid drinkers are upset that’s there’s some left on the table. The sled I prefer to drive over the new one Is running 10 pounds boost. with clutching from 6 years and I know there’s lots left in clutching. But don’t really feel like throwing money at something that may not make it better.
dragonweld28
Supporting Vendor
Low elevation drag racing is a starting point, but doesn't really simulate real mountain conditions. At 6500' your down to 138hp. Climbing in 24-30" of fresh on a 30 degree slope loads the clutch set up way more than a drag race ever will. So what ever set up you were using for drag racing won't work for a mountain set up. Joe has been at this a long time and I'm sure he has "his" kit figured out. My opinion is that just removing pivot weight from the original set up isn't the way to go. I would run a completely different set up for low elevation then high. I wonder who is testing his stuff in Edmonton. Would be interesting to see how it works compared to how i have my clutch kits. Thats my 2cents.
Why can't you do the same drag race @7000 ft with 3ft of snow ..or is that to hard to do.
mountainsledmania
Active VIP Member
hey joe, send me a clutch kit for my 850 and ill go hang a lickin on all these boys for you. In fact if you want i can bring out my old iron xm with an ibackshift kit if you guys wanna get real spicy... i can do it with that to. This stuff works as advertised.
Caper11
Active VIP Member
Fyi, the testing Joe was showing everyone was burst speed to 200-250ft. Not a actual drag race to 500-660ft. No difference than sitting at the bottom of a hill looking at the line you want to pull.
I do the exact same testing at home at 3200ft and see how quick the setup spools the rpm and trackspeed, “maximum trackspeed equilibrium”.
Than I take that setup, and adjust flyweight or clickers as necessary on the hill.
Aaen rule, keep your testing consistent.
Joe showed two sleds with similar clutch setups.
Difference with both, at altitude is one will not pull the same flyweight as the other.
I do the exact same testing at home at 3200ft and see how quick the setup spools the rpm and trackspeed, “maximum trackspeed equilibrium”.
Than I take that setup, and adjust flyweight or clickers as necessary on the hill.
Aaen rule, keep your testing consistent.
Joe showed two sleds with similar clutch setups.
Difference with both, at altitude is one will not pull the same flyweight as the other.
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REDNECKREV 827
Member
well why don’t you run it up to position 2 or 3 ? It’s not the same as a tra
maxwell
Active VIP Member
I would be bouncing off the rev limiter unless I add weight
REDNECKREV 827
Member
Brain fart never mind 
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pete gads
Active VIP Member
I ran joe's kit in my 19 g4 850 and was very happy with the back shift, nothing to compare to climbing. This yr i have 20 expert with joe's kit and friend has the same 20 expert stock. Im 250 lbs and he is 195 lbs. On a straight up hill pull side by side i will climb 10 15 ft higher. Not worried about speed just who climbs higher. So most days i break trail into new areas. Joe's kits work.
pete gads
Active VIP Member
Hi joe, with your kit in my 2020 expert i feel that i could gear up one on my small gear to try get more track speed. What is your opinion thks pete.
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