800R big bore kits....whose do you have, and how's it workin?
- Thread starter teeroy
- Start date
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
Thats funny chit right there!...
kevin p
Member
im running one of ralphs 860s. They are a good reliable engine however they do NOT build anywhere near the power that they were bragged up to be. If you own one id highly recomend someone else to dyno it. there are people doing an honest true hp port job on them. I will post his name when he is ready to sell his amazing engine.
Stonehands
Member
I cant speak for other kits. I've yet to run into another 860 sled. Would like to so I can see if my set up runs well. For anyone that says Dyno numbers don't mean anything, I say thats only partly true. What a great tool for maximizing your engines potential.
I have an 860 desinged and built by HOLZ racing. Its a pump gas single Dynoport/HPS can. This is my third season with no trouble at all. Still running the same belt.
There are sleds on the hill that can out climb mine, but there few and far between (turbos and big bores only).
For me it's about reliability. There's nothing worsre than a perfect day on the hill and someone in the groups sled won't run and ruins it. I couldn't be happier my setup for that reason as I've never had any problems with the sled.
If someone with a Dyno wants to put on an 860 Dyno Day for a resonable price then count me in. Would be a lot of fun and a chance to do some tuning.
I have an 860 desinged and built by HOLZ racing. Its a pump gas single Dynoport/HPS can. This is my third season with no trouble at all. Still running the same belt.
There are sleds on the hill that can out climb mine, but there few and far between (turbos and big bores only).
For me it's about reliability. There's nothing worsre than a perfect day on the hill and someone in the groups sled won't run and ruins it. I couldn't be happier my setup for that reason as I've never had any problems with the sled.
If someone with a Dyno wants to put on an 860 Dyno Day for a resonable price then count me in. Would be a lot of fun and a chance to do some tuning.
RK Tek
Active member
The BS stops on the hill.. You can not fake performance or HP WITH A WELL SETUP SLED!
Meaning: you have one or more WELL SET UP (similar in track length and weight AND RIDER ABILITY) sleds and you point them up a Steep hill that is loaded with powder and then you can see what is making power and what is not...
This COMMON testing or comparing methods where you "run into" a sled on the hill and compare against it is just random. You MUST compare apples to apples (no 3" tracks against 2.25" tracks etc. etc.)..
I had some customers of mine, a few years back, drive a long way to come ride with me. They got here and the snow was super deep! Got on the hills and their 860's (that I built) ran worse than a stocker...While mine ran good! Got to lookin' and they had all these other "goodies" that I had specifically told them NOT to install, INSTALLED.
They could not figure out why mine ran so much better than theirs.. I simply told them that sometimes it is about what you do NOT have on the sled (those "goodies" again)
In any case, since we invented the 860 for the R back in Dec 2006, we have been through MANY different variations of set ups and have tested MOST other bolt ons in order to find the best possible set up for our engine. In 2011, we have even tried some more changes (that, BTW, are working excellent) point being... "DO NOT RE-INVENT THE WHEEL!!" we have a very strcutured test bed and methodology.. we can readily see what works and what does not using these methods. Afterall.. IT IS WHAT WE DO!!
So, if our kit is set up per recommendations (to the T) it WILL perform flawlessly PROVIDING it is healthy (Clutches, Raves, Bearings etc. etc.) Of course, if there are parasites on the sled (bad bearings, worn clutch components etc. etc.) the sled will run under its potential!
So,when the dust settles, the 860, we build, will be a stellar performer, again, we have proven it for 5 years solid now!
Is it the best one out there?? Not sure (we sure hope so), but it is certainly not the worst!
Can it run poor?? ABSOLUTELY! but it will do so NOT because of the kit but because of the state of tune of the SLED!
Do we have PROVEN set-ups and recommendations for all areas?? ABSOLUTELY!! Do they work? YOU BET! Does everybody adhere to them?? NOPE!!
Do we offer ANYBODY to come down and ride our 860's and compare ANYTHING they wish to it?? YUP!! We are not trying to hide anything and would hope that people would take us up on this offer!
The truth is: We do more 860's than ANY other shop on the planet!, We designed the very 1st one for the R engine and have more time and R&D on this engine than any other shop! Does that makes ours the best?? Nope.. but I can assure you that it is very impressive.
We also took the initiative to work directly with BRP in developing an ECM re-programming package that is unique to RK TEK and DOES add some serious performance~~ WHY? because we take this very serious..
Well.. enough rambling.. Just do not get bogged down with dyno sheets (yes we have them and they are real and impressive) or internet keyboard racers who go on and on on how bad this kit or that kit performs and how good their kit performs (Hmmm who would that be??
)
The BB kit will only perform as good as its set-up! And , believe it or not, usually the developer of the kit has the best set-up!
The BS stops on the hill against 2 or more WELL TUNED BIG BORES! NOT poorly tuned ones! Again, we offer Anybody to come down and see for themselves how ours perform.. What more could you ask for?
Sorry for the long post.. .hope it made some sense!
Kelsey
Meaning: you have one or more WELL SET UP (similar in track length and weight AND RIDER ABILITY) sleds and you point them up a Steep hill that is loaded with powder and then you can see what is making power and what is not...
This COMMON testing or comparing methods where you "run into" a sled on the hill and compare against it is just random. You MUST compare apples to apples (no 3" tracks against 2.25" tracks etc. etc.)..
I had some customers of mine, a few years back, drive a long way to come ride with me. They got here and the snow was super deep! Got on the hills and their 860's (that I built) ran worse than a stocker...While mine ran good! Got to lookin' and they had all these other "goodies" that I had specifically told them NOT to install, INSTALLED.
They could not figure out why mine ran so much better than theirs.. I simply told them that sometimes it is about what you do NOT have on the sled (those "goodies" again)
In any case, since we invented the 860 for the R back in Dec 2006, we have been through MANY different variations of set ups and have tested MOST other bolt ons in order to find the best possible set up for our engine. In 2011, we have even tried some more changes (that, BTW, are working excellent) point being... "DO NOT RE-INVENT THE WHEEL!!" we have a very strcutured test bed and methodology.. we can readily see what works and what does not using these methods. Afterall.. IT IS WHAT WE DO!!
So, if our kit is set up per recommendations (to the T) it WILL perform flawlessly PROVIDING it is healthy (Clutches, Raves, Bearings etc. etc.) Of course, if there are parasites on the sled (bad bearings, worn clutch components etc. etc.) the sled will run under its potential!
So,when the dust settles, the 860, we build, will be a stellar performer, again, we have proven it for 5 years solid now!
Is it the best one out there?? Not sure (we sure hope so), but it is certainly not the worst!
Can it run poor?? ABSOLUTELY! but it will do so NOT because of the kit but because of the state of tune of the SLED!
Do we have PROVEN set-ups and recommendations for all areas?? ABSOLUTELY!! Do they work? YOU BET! Does everybody adhere to them?? NOPE!!
Do we offer ANYBODY to come down and ride our 860's and compare ANYTHING they wish to it?? YUP!! We are not trying to hide anything and would hope that people would take us up on this offer!
The truth is: We do more 860's than ANY other shop on the planet!, We designed the very 1st one for the R engine and have more time and R&D on this engine than any other shop! Does that makes ours the best?? Nope.. but I can assure you that it is very impressive.
We also took the initiative to work directly with BRP in developing an ECM re-programming package that is unique to RK TEK and DOES add some serious performance~~ WHY? because we take this very serious..
Well.. enough rambling.. Just do not get bogged down with dyno sheets (yes we have them and they are real and impressive) or internet keyboard racers who go on and on on how bad this kit or that kit performs and how good their kit performs (Hmmm who would that be??
)The BB kit will only perform as good as its set-up! And , believe it or not, usually the developer of the kit has the best set-up!
The BS stops on the hill against 2 or more WELL TUNED BIG BORES! NOT poorly tuned ones! Again, we offer Anybody to come down and see for themselves how ours perform.. What more could you ask for?
Sorry for the long post.. .hope it made some sense!
Kelsey
fredw
Active VIP Member
keysey invented the 860 bb, and al gore the internet.... legends in their own minds...
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im running one of ralphs 860s. They are a good reliable engine however they do NOT build anywhere near the power that they were bragged up to be. If you own one id highly recomend someone else to dyno it. there are people doing an honest true hp port job on them. I will post his name when he is ready to sell his amazing engine.
have a buddy with a splitsecond 860 14 to 1 head with bottom end to match and carb boring, he is running the roster built clutching, and they are recomending around 16 grams for his setup, he has 23grams instead, and runs sweet, hp is 172, but pulls more weight than the 180 sleds...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
im running one of ralphs 860s. They are a good reliable engine however they do NOT build anywhere near the power that they were bragged up to be. If you own one id highly recomend someone else to dyno it. there are people doing an honest true hp port job on them. I will post his name when he is ready to sell his amazing engine.
have a buddy with a splitsecond 860 14 to 1 head with bottom end to match and carb boring, he is running the roster built clutching, and they are recomending around 16 grams for his setup, he has 23grams instead, and runs sweet, hp is 172, but pulls more weight than the 180 sleds...
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
So if a person/operator can manipulate the numbers on a dyno to read lower on purpose like stated earlier....Then one can manipulate them to read higher than they really are also......
RK Tek
Active member
So if a person/operator can manipulate the numbers on a dyno to read lower on purpose like stated earlier....Then one can manipulate them to read higher than they really are also......
100% correct.. that is why ALL the dyno sheets we have are from people I would not know if they were standing next to me... In other words.. neutral dyno facilities.
Great point...
Like I said earlier.. The BS stops on the mountain... you can not fake HP..
Again... methodical testing methods and results are what really counts.. Dyno sheets mean very little.
NEVER seen a dyno out highmark anybody!!
REAL WORLD results are what really counts!
Kelsey
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
a guaranty to out perform stock.....Fawk me!....I certainly hope so....
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
anyone have some pictures of porting.....Before and afters?...
turbostang
Active VIP Member
i honestly got to say there is no making you happy,maybe some one could give you there visa number as well.
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
They are all legit questions. I have been asking questions and haven't had many of them answered. I am asking these questions for myself and many others who want to know.
what does proper porting look like? show me.... and my question like this one apperantly it warrants your ignorant response of never pleasing me.... This is a snowmobile forum for people to gather information....not once have i bashed anyone, knocked workmanship, etc on this subject..... i asked questions and for everyone and most questions i asked haven't been answered. are my questions unreallistic? are we gaining anything or gathering information from this thread/conversation? you tell me!... i think so since there is over 1500 visits to view this thread.... people are interested, inclunding this grump......:d
turbostang
Active VIP Member
you cant expect a dealer to show his stuff on a open form just so people can try and copy it or to shot it down etc etc these guys do this to put food on there table,but if you can i will be very suprised...
oler1234
Active VIP Member
Agreed....porting will be diffrent for every big bore, its all in the exahust mostly. There is some to be had on the intake but the origional casting is pretty good and benefits are very small.
Your missing the main point of the thread, Whose do you have and hows it workin. General concensis is that everyones seems to work, power levels are all about the same, and everyone has something slightly diffrent to make theres work. Dont mix match parts unless advised. AND you gatta have some tunning skills and ability to make em work. The sled and kit is only as good as the tuner/rider.
If your this concerned with a big bore, mayby it is not for you.
I agree with your post, the mountains are where it counts...
However if a persons motor isn't proven on the dyno, how does he know if it's his setup or his motor that is his woes when he is getting his ass handed to him in mountains?.
I know what you mean about working the Dyno just to get a HP number and on all the engines I've ever had dynoed over the years we made sure the engine was hot (110 F) before doing a pull and making sure it was a long hard pull with jetting you could run without melting down. The numbers are for sure lower than what some may expect, but they are realistic...
I love it when I'm one foot below some hot shots marks in the mountains and he has just finished telling everyone how much HP he thinks he has. Then he asks how much HP I have and I reply with a number (and prove it with the dyno sheet) way lower than than he expects... They can't believe it, nor do they want to, it must mean something is wrong with their sled. How do they justify the marks on the mountain?
HiLlClImB911
Active VIP Member
Arma-Coat Finishes
Active member
I was thinking of going 860 and was curious too..............175hp would be liveable for me. I would rather have a real number rather than some B.S claim given by some manufacturers who just want to pull you in.
turbostang
Active VIP Member
didnt someone just post a dyno sheet.................
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
This is really cool! This shows everyone that a 860 is capable of producing BIG HP....Awesome! Thanks for sharing this with us. Now this sets the bar...860 making 170 plus HP...wow!...I know...blah blah balh...if you cant tune your sled it dosen't matter...The bullchit stop when the flippers dropped.......
I'm not asking what else is done... because it dosen't matter... this shows me its possible now. someone else beside industry claims....
Thanks for showing ALL of this that its possible....Fricking Awesome! i will take a consumers opinion over a retailers anyday...sorry, but thats how i roll.
TABSTER
Active VIP Member
, , , , , , , , ,
Busy place.....
800R big bore kits....whose do you have, and how's it workin?
sorry if i have side tracked it...lets carry on....
Busy place.....
800R big bore kits....whose do you have, and how's it workin?
sorry if i have side tracked it...lets carry on....
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