2022-2023-Mcbride conditions and updates
- Thread starter freeride73
- Start date
Shredder
Active VIP Member
Thinking of making a quick trip this weekend. Likely head into Lucille as the Renshaw trail is a long way when it’s rough. Still have memories of that trail before it was ever groomed.
Cableguy
Active VIP Member
memories or nightmares
Think this warm weathers been wreaking havoc on everything. We were in sicamous last weekend and early in the week it was colder and trails were immaculate. Road eagles on Saturday and it was practically raining in the valley I was 5th sled up after a fresh groom and the corners were falling apart (and our group dosnt brap up trails, group despises people who do) fast forward to the end of the day it was 28km of spine breaking whoops. had one guy got down at noon and it was just as bad I think. Only can do so much when conditions are less than ideal. We would all like it better though
j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
I rode the Renshaw trail for 10 hours on Friday night it was destroy, smashed just like everyone said, same with Saturday! The blade was down scrapping off the moguls and the the drag was dragging. But the snow wasn’t flowing it was rolling and balling up like mashed potatoes. There was compaction but it was +3 from bottom to the top and back. I relayed the messages that I read here. So if there are issues you want to bring up and put reputations on the line please go thru the McBride snowmobile association and they can discuss.
This is unfortunatly what I was expecting.
Weather was not a factor, sorry just not buying that as other trails were fine, in other riding destinations. Revy and clubs south deal with a lot more warm weather conditions.
It is clear there will be nothing else done except shrug the shoulders and say oh well we tried.
No mid day like other riding areas?
If they are 250-500 sled days then definatly a mid day run is warranted but is clearly not an option here. I expect the groomer to have a profitable business but a service is also expected. When there is a large volume of sledders a second mid day run should not be an issue. Just not sucking up the same old we are just dumb riders that know nothing. There are options that are just being balked. A reputation standard has already been set, just providing options on how to fix it.
And yes complaints were sent to the club. If we dont matter to the groomer maybe we will to the club.
Weather was not a factor, sorry just not buying that as other trails were fine, in other riding destinations. Revy and clubs south deal with a lot more warm weather conditions.
It is clear there will be nothing else done except shrug the shoulders and say oh well we tried.
No mid day like other riding areas?
If they are 250-500 sled days then definatly a mid day run is warranted but is clearly not an option here. I expect the groomer to have a profitable business but a service is also expected. When there is a large volume of sledders a second mid day run should not be an issue. Just not sucking up the same old we are just dumb riders that know nothing. There are options that are just being balked. A reputation standard has already been set, just providing options on how to fix it.
And yes complaints were sent to the club. If we dont matter to the groomer maybe we will to the club.
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pano-dude
Active VIP Member
Tillers require specific plumbing and functions on the cat.
We found trail prep is a huge part of longevity of the trail, getting a good solid base when the temps are cold makes a difference.
Also cutting the whoops with the blade and only using the drag to clean up helps.
It's a sloooow process once the trail goes to ch!t.
We struggled and did our best but the biggest thing that helped was having a veteran ski hill cat operator teach us how to process the snow.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
I am going to add my 2c as i also rode this trail last weekend and have spent time at most of the major riding areas in BC. Please note i am not in any way questioning the skill of the operators or decisions of the snowmobile club. I have many friends involved with the club and i respect them and volunteers in general and appreciate what they do for us. I am not B*tching. I am a washed up Ex Hillclimb racer so i know how to handle and am not afraid of some bumps. But i do agree with others in that Renshaw is a very special gem and that trail can destroy the experience to the level of not wanting to return to the area.
There are many reasons why Revelstoke has phenomenal trails and they re able to maintain them in above zero conditions with 500+ machines. Revelstoke has many advantages over most other areas of BC. first off, they utilize tillers on their groomers. Tillers are really the only way to get a proper consistency and remove the memory out of the snow. But tillers have their drawbacks and wont necessarily work for Mcbride. Tillers require High flow hydraulics similar to a skid steer running a mulcher. Not all groomers are equipped with this and we cant really expect MBCSA to make such purchases. Tillers also only work well if the trail is maintained frequently, Revelstoke trails see a groomer at least once a day 7 days a week which makes it easier to keep up on the maintenance of the bumps. Tillers also require a good base to work with as they can eat 8-10" into the snow, if they hit a rock goodbye tiller it will destroy itself. If you took a shovel out at KM 5 on the Renshaw trail and dug down to ground i bet there isnt 10" there. Robson valley just doesn't get the snow required at low elevation to warrant running a tiller. Revelstoke on the other hand absolutely does. While a tiller would certainly leave a beautiful Renshaw trail it would need to be done more frequently and i do believe they would run into issues with it and the low valley snowpack. The other advantage Revelstoke has is their proximity to their main shop, at any point in time the groomer can return to the shop and swap a tiller on, or grab a drag if conditions warrant utilizing a drag. They have unlimited options and they also run the groomer multiple times per day. ( short rails and lots of riders make that a possibility ) It is really tough to compare a Revelstoke trail to a McBride trail as some of the things Revelstoke is capable of doing are not a possibility for 90% of the clubs in BC due to funding, location and amount of riders.
when i compare the renshaw trail to any other long trails that dont seem to have the same issues a few things stick out in my mind. The renshaw trail is very long, it probably runs at low elevation longer than any trail in BC, it is narrow, and it has many sharp corners. All of these aspects attribute to poor trail conditions compared to their comparable length counterparts. Lets take Clemina creek for example. That trail can see the same amount of sleds and not be nearly as bad becuase it is 3x as wide and doesn't have nearly as many sharp corners, it also gains elevation a lot faster. Valemount is using the same equipment mcbride is but generally their trails are in better shape to start ( IMO) not to say we don't have our challenges aswell on busy warm weekends.
there are other trails in BC that i have experienced the same conditions on a few times. These areas experience Warm weather, high traffic and long distances. Hunters range, eagles pass and owleshead i have experienced the same poor trail at the end of the day. They are also using the same equipment and the same grooming program. Anyone who says the Renshaw trail is worse than any of these areas after a busy warm weekend is just making it up because they are equally as bad.
At the end of the day any club with a snowcat and drag can make a beautiful trail in -10 to -20 that will hold 400 sleds no problem. I have experienced that myself in renshaw. When its cold that trail can be beautiful. But its how you manage the trail when its warm and busy that will make or break the experience and reputation of the area.
Here is my suggestion to the MBCSA, do a trial run on warm expected to be busy weekends, we fully understand that it is not financially possible to groom that trail twice per day(120km) unless the price was 50$. We can all say we want to pay that and some of us would, however the majority of the snowmobile population would have an issue with that. My Proposal would be to do a trial run of a split mid day groom. Have the operator leave the parking lot at 2-3pm and be at the cabin by 4pm. The club will have to pay the operator to be on standby until 6-7pm at the cabin until all of the machines have gone down for the day. The operator can then make his final down pass in the evening without any sleds behind. Understood there will be a charge for the opertor to be on standby for a few hours likely in the range of 500-700$. How the club makes that up could be via contingency fund or charging 30$ on those busy weekends. We want the club to be successful and operate in the green so we dont expect that the extra cost should be a direct expense to the club. I also understand that there will be downsides to a mid day groom. The operator will run into traffic, while this is not ideal it can be mitigated with signage at the toll booth stating to either wait until 4pm or head down before 2pm etc. In reality all snowmobilers should be prepared to meet a groomer on the trail at ANY time of day as alot of other areas dont just groom at night, But unfortunately not always the case. The second downside is that the trail product will not be 100% the next morning as the the final pass will essentially have a wack of sleds on the up pass that would destroy it in short order since it didnt have time to setup. I think this method would be beneficial for the equipment and operator aswell, lets face it, blading out 3ft whoops is hard on equipment and diesel fuel, no groomer operator likes it and tries to avoid it at all cost. This is part of the reason valemount tries to do as much grooming as possible to keep the bumps at bay.
There are pros and cons to all methods but myself personally, would thank the lord if i see a groomer at the cabin at 4pm knowing that the torture has been mitigated at least a bit. We would be left with a 70% trail in the morning, and a 70% trail in the evening. But i think most of us might agree that is better than 100% trail and 0% trail?
give it a shot, get some feedback, maybe it fails. But just put the old-school way of thinking aside and try what the users want. If it fails we all know at least it was tried.
There are many reasons why Revelstoke has phenomenal trails and they re able to maintain them in above zero conditions with 500+ machines. Revelstoke has many advantages over most other areas of BC. first off, they utilize tillers on their groomers. Tillers are really the only way to get a proper consistency and remove the memory out of the snow. But tillers have their drawbacks and wont necessarily work for Mcbride. Tillers require High flow hydraulics similar to a skid steer running a mulcher. Not all groomers are equipped with this and we cant really expect MBCSA to make such purchases. Tillers also only work well if the trail is maintained frequently, Revelstoke trails see a groomer at least once a day 7 days a week which makes it easier to keep up on the maintenance of the bumps. Tillers also require a good base to work with as they can eat 8-10" into the snow, if they hit a rock goodbye tiller it will destroy itself. If you took a shovel out at KM 5 on the Renshaw trail and dug down to ground i bet there isnt 10" there. Robson valley just doesn't get the snow required at low elevation to warrant running a tiller. Revelstoke on the other hand absolutely does. While a tiller would certainly leave a beautiful Renshaw trail it would need to be done more frequently and i do believe they would run into issues with it and the low valley snowpack. The other advantage Revelstoke has is their proximity to their main shop, at any point in time the groomer can return to the shop and swap a tiller on, or grab a drag if conditions warrant utilizing a drag. They have unlimited options and they also run the groomer multiple times per day. ( short rails and lots of riders make that a possibility ) It is really tough to compare a Revelstoke trail to a McBride trail as some of the things Revelstoke is capable of doing are not a possibility for 90% of the clubs in BC due to funding, location and amount of riders.
when i compare the renshaw trail to any other long trails that dont seem to have the same issues a few things stick out in my mind. The renshaw trail is very long, it probably runs at low elevation longer than any trail in BC, it is narrow, and it has many sharp corners. All of these aspects attribute to poor trail conditions compared to their comparable length counterparts. Lets take Clemina creek for example. That trail can see the same amount of sleds and not be nearly as bad becuase it is 3x as wide and doesn't have nearly as many sharp corners, it also gains elevation a lot faster. Valemount is using the same equipment mcbride is but generally their trails are in better shape to start ( IMO) not to say we don't have our challenges aswell on busy warm weekends.
there are other trails in BC that i have experienced the same conditions on a few times. These areas experience Warm weather, high traffic and long distances. Hunters range, eagles pass and owleshead i have experienced the same poor trail at the end of the day. They are also using the same equipment and the same grooming program. Anyone who says the Renshaw trail is worse than any of these areas after a busy warm weekend is just making it up because they are equally as bad.
At the end of the day any club with a snowcat and drag can make a beautiful trail in -10 to -20 that will hold 400 sleds no problem. I have experienced that myself in renshaw. When its cold that trail can be beautiful. But its how you manage the trail when its warm and busy that will make or break the experience and reputation of the area.
Here is my suggestion to the MBCSA, do a trial run on warm expected to be busy weekends, we fully understand that it is not financially possible to groom that trail twice per day(120km) unless the price was 50$. We can all say we want to pay that and some of us would, however the majority of the snowmobile population would have an issue with that. My Proposal would be to do a trial run of a split mid day groom. Have the operator leave the parking lot at 2-3pm and be at the cabin by 4pm. The club will have to pay the operator to be on standby until 6-7pm at the cabin until all of the machines have gone down for the day. The operator can then make his final down pass in the evening without any sleds behind. Understood there will be a charge for the opertor to be on standby for a few hours likely in the range of 500-700$. How the club makes that up could be via contingency fund or charging 30$ on those busy weekends. We want the club to be successful and operate in the green so we dont expect that the extra cost should be a direct expense to the club. I also understand that there will be downsides to a mid day groom. The operator will run into traffic, while this is not ideal it can be mitigated with signage at the toll booth stating to either wait until 4pm or head down before 2pm etc. In reality all snowmobilers should be prepared to meet a groomer on the trail at ANY time of day as alot of other areas dont just groom at night, But unfortunately not always the case. The second downside is that the trail product will not be 100% the next morning as the the final pass will essentially have a wack of sleds on the up pass that would destroy it in short order since it didnt have time to setup. I think this method would be beneficial for the equipment and operator aswell, lets face it, blading out 3ft whoops is hard on equipment and diesel fuel, no groomer operator likes it and tries to avoid it at all cost. This is part of the reason valemount tries to do as much grooming as possible to keep the bumps at bay.
There are pros and cons to all methods but myself personally, would thank the lord if i see a groomer at the cabin at 4pm knowing that the torture has been mitigated at least a bit. We would be left with a 70% trail in the morning, and a 70% trail in the evening. But i think most of us might agree that is better than 100% trail and 0% trail?
give it a shot, get some feedback, maybe it fails. But just put the old-school way of thinking aside and try what the users want. If it fails we all know at least it was tried.
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j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
Sorry Randy, can’t give anymore info!! I don’t own the business, any changes would be between McBride club and El-Ja! I just report a bit of info I get from Hotrod or if I’m there what I see to S&M! If you think for a minute he doesn’t care about the ridership, you’re wrong! But I’m not going to get into any bitch slapping with anyone because I have no bearing on decision making!
Thankyou very much maxwell.
Posted on the white board outside my office regularly is "NONTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES".
All that is really wanted is some effort to make the trail rideable. Nothing could be better to access one of the best ride zones in BC and bring more business to town.
Thanks for the explanations and options and yes the groomer and club need to run in the green, that is a must have.
Hopefully one or some of the options proposed in the last page are employed - at least some sign of effoert for improvement.
Publicize what is going to be done or tried, it would make us all feel so much better about trying the Renshaw trail again.
We all love the town and the riding areas, lets just try something to make it better.
Posted on the white board outside my office regularly is "NONTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES".
All that is really wanted is some effort to make the trail rideable. Nothing could be better to access one of the best ride zones in BC and bring more business to town.
Thanks for the explanations and options and yes the groomer and club need to run in the green, that is a must have.
Hopefully one or some of the options proposed in the last page are employed - at least some sign of effoert for improvement.
Publicize what is going to be done or tried, it would make us all feel so much better about trying the Renshaw trail again.
We all love the town and the riding areas, lets just try something to make it better.
j.c.higgins
Active VIP Member
No problem Randy!!
Maxwell touched on one of the biggest problems for the Renshaw trail which is low elevation with very little elevation gain for a long distance. Low elevation especially this year = little snow. And this year with no cold weather when the trail went in resulted in base never getting established. Mid day 1/2 way groom and sit till 7 may sound good, but in reality won't do a bit of good because unless time/cold allow for trail setup after 10 sleds the whoops will be back.
Mike270412
Golden Boy
Grade the trail down to bare gravel and make a parking area at km27
Shredder
Active VIP Member
Hell yeah Mikey. Now that’s a fawkin idea.
Lol! First time I ever road Renshaw thats exactly what happened, they were logging pretty much at the end of the road! Long time ago but was the smoothest ride in there in 25 years!
Great idea. Just need a 300,000 dollar grader and all drivers with a brain and patience to get up and down on that narrow fsr.
Wasn’t suggesting it, just reminiscing! would be an absolute disaster. I remember it being so icy if you didn’t have chains the second you stopped, the truck would slide sideways off the road!
pipes
Active VIP Member
One thing Maxwell missed it the riders themselves. Some of the riders, probaley a lot of the riders don't demonstrate proper throttle control. It's off the trailer and on the throttle. The Renshaw trail is a beutiful scenic trail that should be enjoyed at a leasurely pace. I know that it 30 some K to the cabin but WTF is the hurry. I know I've rolled up to the cabin on more that one occcation and seen dozens of sleds just sitting there. If you have enough time in your day to just sit at the cabin then I would suggest that you have enough time to take it nice and easy on your way up. I don't know hopw many times I've seen people pull full throotle on take off and then lock up their brakes and skid into the corners pushing up snow as they round the corners. That knid of riding is good and fine on a snowcross track where athe track is short and groomed several times during an event.
You can all tell me to go pound sand (or snow in this case) but take responsiblity of your actions and don't bitch about how bad the trails are. The groomers and volunteers all do their part to make the ride in as enjoyable as possible, but you as a rider have some responsibilty to show some respect to the work these people do. I myself have ridden the Renshaw since '94. Their was no grooming in the earlier year. The whiners these days have no Idea what rough is. Think about that the next time you come roosting out of a corner.
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