2018 Skidoo Summit Mechanical Changes.

[Arkkarin]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

A little disappointed in doo for not stepping up to claim the issues with the bulkheads and belts. The experts say that it isn't a real issue but have decided to upgrade the 2018's. ( i had to laugh when the designer said the bulkhead wont fail unless you hit something. Like we pick a line knowing that we are going hit a rock and decide to go ahead anyway.) Kind of a mixed message if you ask me. No problem at all with the 2017's but we decided to beef up the 2018's just for fun. Also they were a little vague on the actual changes to the clutching other than fins on the backside. Wonder if the new venting is going to look anything like the holes we have been punching through our covers. They also said there is a new belt and that the gearing is different for the 2018's. Wonder if this is all retrofit-able for the 2017's and what effect it will have to track speed for the machines.

Guess i better call the dealer to price out the "Optional but not necessary" reinforcement plates for my bulkhead.

In fairness i should mention that i am one of the lucky ones so far with no belt issues and have managed to avoid cracking bulkhead. Also having the option to fix the issues is better than we were last week.

P.s. Why did they wait for the 2018 release to make the bulkhead plates available. I would assume this isn't something that they came up with the night before the release. I am sure there is some rider out there with a recently cracked bulkhead that is ready to cry. Seems like a missed opportunity to it's customers that at least they are willing to react fast and redesign a issue.

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Not true, not worth explaining the answer as someone who is negative will just turn it around. Watch the live feed with engineers and they can explain it. The material is not brittle nor is the material mixture wrong, it took a while to figure it out as when it is not warranty they don't get parts to see and reverse engineer to figure it out, you have to hit something, it turns out that at a 15-30 degree hit to spindle there was a huge pressure point put on bulk head and it cracked, you have to hit something though. If nothing else is damaged and there is proof of that brp is working with the customer to get it fixed, there were less than 60 bulk heads breaking and less than a third of these cases, there are as many cases where guys hit something very hard and damaged skis, suspension, a-arms and bulkhead is fine, you can believe what you want but most of you guys are wallowing in your own thoughts just to make you right, that is fine, but all your doing is making others think there is a major problem. They have tested huge hits now in that 15-30 degree range off the spindle and the brace fixes the issue, it does not crack around it(fact), so you can purchase the brace for 55.00 canadian and instal it or have dealer do it and your all good if you hit something in that way, the improvements in the bulk head overall with adding material is a rolling improvement and happens every year with a change of things like wireing, bolts, different placements of stuff and many other things since they have more time to work through things. so yes the machine is improving every month through the year, would you rather it not, it is why the 2016 xm is much better than the 2013. I have never stated there are not issues but I know a lot of the numbers and with the amount of sleds and problems it is well below 1% (if you are having a problem I am not making light of the fact, I will try and your dealer will try to make it better)however I agree with the engineers that 1 problem is one too many and that is why they are constantly working on stuff, there not on the internet all day while at work saying how they can design something way better than the people who design for the company. Get out and ride and have fun, it is what the sport is all about. Your posts and the one below it are just your opinion, that is not accurate by the way and your trying to be right. You don't know numbers, you did not design, build or instal the bulkhead or any other parts, your just throwing it out there to make your self sound like you know what your talking about, this is exactly why you don't get the answers you seek. If I came into your job and told you you were an idiot, said your work is pathetic and you have no idea what you are doing and dreamed up a few other things that were totally wrong, would you then give me the time to answer questions i have? Probably not. My job is not to convince you to buy a sled or convince you that there is not any issues or never will be issues or that the issues are so small that ski doo or myself dont care, it is to put the facts out there, you get to choose what to do with them, but mostly what I see is guys have convinced themselves of only their way is right, Nothing needs to be done to the bulkhead in 2017, however if you think you might hit something, then the brace is there to purchase...just like the bracing from any other company, which is way more money and actually will transfer the hit to somewhere else. Its your choice. Enjoy your sleds , it is what I and a ton of customers have been doing...

As a consumer of lots of different types of machinery I accept that there is sometimes going to be problems.

The only thing I expect to see is an effort to provide a solution.

I appreciate a science based explaination of why the problem is occuring and what is being done to fix it or improve upon the situation. And for this I give you props for your above answer.

It eases my mind buying a 2018 knowing skidoo understands the problem and knows what needs to happen to fix it.

Having worked in sales before I know I definitely don't envy your job right now as you are receiving **** from multiple angles and you have to carefully answer everything with political percison.

I don't however appreciate skidoo blaming it all on the consumers hitting things.

Mountain sleds are purpose built and must be able to withstand the environment and the abuse that come with it.

 

[roadlinur113]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

A little disappointed in doo for not stepping up to claim the issues with the bulkheads and belts. The experts say that it isn't a real issue but have decided to upgrade the 2018's. ( i had to laugh when the designer said the bulkhead wont fail unless you hit something. Like we pick a line knowing that we are going hit a rock and decide to go ahead anyway.) Kind of a mixed message if you ask me. No problem at all with the 2017's but we decided to beef up the 2018's just for fun. Also they were a little vague on the actual changes to the clutching other than fins on the backside. Wonder if the new venting is going to look anything like the holes we have been punching through our covers. They also said there is a new belt and that the gearing is different for the 2018's. Wonder if this is all retrofit-able for the 2017's and what effect it will have to track speed for the machines.

Guess i better call the dealer to price out the "Optional but not necessary" reinforcement plates for my bulkhead.

In fairness i should mention that i am one of the lucky ones so far with no belt issues and have managed to avoid cracking bulkhead. Also having the option to fix the issues is better than we were last week.

P.s. Why did they wait for the 2018 release to make the bulkhead plates available. I would assume this isn't something that they came up with the night before the release. I am sure there is some rider out there with a recently cracked bulkhead that is ready to cry. Seems like a missed opportunity to it's customers that at least they are willing to react fast and redesign a issue.

On the subject of updates would you as an owner prefer they didn't make some changes or upgrades for the current year?

As a business owner I think the swiftness BRP has come up with solutions is amazing given that these production models have been in the public hands on use for what....6-8 weeks ? That is an incredible short time to recognize, assess and test the issues and announce changes.

I hope all the 2017 G4 buyers find the satisfaction in their sleds they expected at purchase time. If not.....let them know with your wallets next time around and try the competition.

 

[Summitric]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

on the subject of updates would you as an owner prefer they didn't make some changes or upgrades for the current year?

As a business owner i think the swiftness brp has come up with solutions is amazing given that these production models have been in the public hands on use for what....6-8 weeks ? That is an incredible short time to recognize, assess and test the issues and announce changes.

I hope all the 2017 g4 buyers find the satisfaction in their sleds they expected at purchase time. If not.....let them know with your wallets next time around and try the competition.

well said... I think brp did a remarkable job of compiling info and then determining what to do as an action......... Try that with one of the major auto manufacturers, as it will take years, in most cases, to come up with situational repairs or recalls. Even then, many times, what i would think should be a recall is only referred to as a technical service bulletin, and not warranty.

 

[norona]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

A little disappointed in doo for not stepping up to claim the issues with the bulkheads and belts. The experts say that it isn't a real issue but have decided to upgrade the 2018's. ( i had to laugh when the designer said the bulkhead wont fail unless you hit something. Like we pick a line knowing that we are going hit a rock and decide to go ahead anyway.) Kind of a mixed message if you ask me. No problem at all with the 2017's but we decided to beef up the 2018's just for fun. Also they were a little vague on the actual changes to the clutching other than fins on the backside. Wonder if the new venting is going to look anything like the holes we have been punching through our covers. They also said there is a new belt and that the gearing is different for the 2018's. Wonder if this is all retrofit-able for the 2017's and what effect it will have to track speed for the machines.

Guess i better call the dealer to price out the "Optional but not necessary" reinforcement plates for my bulkhead.

In fairness i should mention that i am one of the lucky ones so far with no belt issues and have managed to avoid cracking bulkhead. Also having the option to fix the issues is better than we were last week.

P.s. Why did they wait for the 2018 release to make the bulkhead plates available. I would assume this isn't something that they came up with the night before the release. I am sure there is some rider out there with a recently cracked bulkhead that is ready to cry. Seems like a missed opportunity to it's customers that at least they are willing to react fast and redesign a issue.

Facts:

Never said any issue is not a real issue, every issue is until its fixed
Yes the bulk head wont fail unless you hit something, not one has failed from "just riding along", Jumping or general riding, any bulkhead that has been broken has been hit
Bulkheads are beefed up as a rolling fix to help improve the machine
Sorry if clutching upgrades are vague, only because it is still a work in progress, I am receiving and trying stuff all the time, even though i also have no issues, I did blow a belt at 800km with the sled over reving, went down to clicker 2 and sits at 7900 and 900km later on second belt and it looks new
Everything is and will be retrofittable to 2017, only if those people want it who need it
yes optional, not necessary
you are not lucky, you are in the majority, however the internet has made you think you are lucky
bulkhead plate had to be tested, if something is warranty then doo gets back all parts and it is faster and easier to fix something, hitting something is not a warranty, and a bulk head fix is 6hrs from doo plus parts, so in reality about 9 hours for a dealer to do, the 4000.00 number comes from guys who do insurance claims so they pad the hours high to make more money, it is not 4000.00 more like 1200.00 to 1500.00 or should be that, still a lot if you bust one...so they had to get parts back to test which was hard since when guys use insurance the sled goes to insurance and doo does not get parts
I do know some dealers who just replaced the bulkhead and are bummed as if the plate was available last week they could have had it and installed it, but it is not available till the 22nd of feb I believe...it comes on bulkheads from now onwards and is apart of all new summits and free rides

 

[norona]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

As a consumer of lots of different types of machinery I accept that there is sometimes going to be problems.

The only thing I expect to see is an effort to provide a solution.

I appreciate a science based explaination of why the problem is occuring and what is being done to fix it or improve upon the situation. And for this I give you props for your above answer.

It eases my mind buying a 2018 knowing skidoo understands the problem and knows what needs to happen to fix it.

Having worked in sales before I know I definitely don't envy your job right now as you are receiving **** from multiple angles and you have to carefully answer everything with political percison.

I don't however appreciate skidoo blaming it all on the consumers hitting things.

Mountain sleds are purpose built and must be able to withstand the environment and the abuse that come with it.

Thanks, being on here actually is not part of my job, I got lots of help when I started and know lots of it is valued and I think the sled community is awesome however it has changed into lots of guys being bullies to get their point across, and it is usually wrong, so i continue to come on here and answer to the best of my ability and also a lot of the time i know things are coming, what is coming and can't release the info until it is okayed, I will continue to do this to help the greater amount of understanding riders. Ski-Doo does not blame riders for hitting stuff and riders should not blame ski doo for hitting stuff, point being is the bulkhead will not break unless you hit something, the plate is designed to stop the bulkhead from cracking at the found sweet spot, therefor loading the a-arms and having them break first, how the design does work for the majority of hits but is not talked about by those who it has happened to. Happy Riding. I could just post photos and vids and never answer anything, but hey i am a big boy and most of us off the site laugh at the bullies and especially the ones who say how good they are and are willing to drive halfway around the country to meet the other guys to prove who is the best....ha ha still makes me laugh. So many wicked riders out there...but they don't need to prove anything, cause guys know when they see, like people who tell you they are rich, they usually ain't.

 

[neilsleder]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

As a certified NDT Level II technician with 25 years experience I am curious as to your evaluation method to lead you to the conclusion of the metal mixture in 2017 Bulkheads? The last test I read you performed on a 2014 and 2016 Viper rod with a ball peen hammer in your garage while drinking beer....pretty scientific for sure. How did the hardness of those rods compare on say the Rockwell C Chart? Perhaps there will be an employment opportunity in my company for someone with your vast knowledge.

He probably called them up and got them to throw some QT-100 into the metal mixture lol


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[Summitric]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Keep up the good work, dave!!

 

[NoBrakes!]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

He probably called them up and got them to throw some QT-100 into the metal mixture lol


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Yup, QT is amazing stuff,big weight penalty though....

 

[pooch]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

I think everyone just needs to calm down and ride there sled.
Yes, you may break something while riding. But has that changed from years past?
They are working on a fix. It's not expensive, parts wise anyway.
And you don't know what Doo is going to do just yet with warranty/ good will on parts....
So calm down and go ride your sled and not bitch to Norona or any other rep.
Dave and the others are helpfull . And don't need to be here but are. So thanks to them.
I've got 600km on my 17 and love the sled. Makes me look like a WAY better rider than I am lol.

 

[neilsleder]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Yup, QT is amazing stuff,big weight penalty though....

But then you could destroy rocks instead of rocks destroying you lol. Oh but steel and aluminum don't mix that's an issue.


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[skegpro]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Can anyone give me directions to find this skidoo video with the engineers talking about the changes to the bulkhead and clutches?

I have been searching the Facebook page and can't find it.

Dave would you mind sharing it on your Facebook page, so I can find it?

 

[roadlinur113]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

I found it early yesterday under the 30 minute Q & A video that starts with the yellow shirt riders and the technical stuff comes thru part way thru from the "Men In Black"

 

[Caper11]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

At the beginning when G4 were breaking i said that the casting was too brittle because of lack of metal mixture in the casting. Now that they changed the composition for the 18 model's they knew it was a problem. The problem is if you have the 17 with the brittle casting, installing the bracing (reinforcement plate)is a bandaid now. It will not hold up and maybe buy you a bit of time before it cracks around the bracing. The only real fix is to replace the entire casting with the updated 18 one.

I said the same as well! Along with too much movement on the engine mounts, bad clutching. But wait there was no problem, and still is no problem according to some.

The 17 bulkhead is Just like an alberta windshield, it will eventually will get a crack.


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[pfi572]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

I said the same as well! Along with too much movement on the engine mounts, bad clutching. But wait there was no problem, and still is no problem according to some.

The 17 bulkhead is Just like an alberta windshield, it will eventually will get a crack.


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Mark this post ?
That little metal brace isn't all they changed on the 2018 bulk head.
Will be beefed up and complete different part # for 2018.

 

[norona]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Can anyone give me directions to find this skidoo video with the engineers talking about the changes to the bulkhead and clutches?

I have been searching the Facebook page and can't find it.

Dave would you mind sharing it on your Facebook page, so I can find it?

It is up on my @Dave Norona Facebook page. cheers dave

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

 

[skegpro]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

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[skegpro]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.



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[polaris011]

Re: 2018 Skidoo Summit G4 850 Mechanical Changes.

Here is my issue. Why not design a bulk head as strong as the axys or pros? I have rode Polaris sleds for ever I have a box full of busted a arms but never a bulk head! Polaris has so many other issues that I'm not going to get into that caused me to buy a ski Doo last year but the bulk head ain't one of them. Ski Doo engineering is unbelievable with what they have come up with it's just sad that they can't get the bulk head sorted out. You should be able to nail a hidden log or smash a tree or clip a rock and not worry about your bulk head. A arms, plastic,bumpers etc or easy fixes and should fail long before the bulkhead. Period.

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