2008 Summit XP 800 Engine Problem

[Sleeper700]

I had my motor seize at Allan Creek on the 22nd. I let it cool down and was able to pull the cord and start it again. Got almost to the cabin when it died again, and it took more time before it would move again, but when I started it up, it made horrible sounds. It was hard to turn the primary clutch by hand. I figured it would either be a messed up top end, or a crank bearing. I took the engine out over the last couple of days (not fun), and this is what I found:

Top of Pistons - Comments on Piston Wash?


Mag Side


PTO Side


Exhaust Side


Intake Side - Comments on Marks at Intake Ports?


Intake Side again


Cylinder Walls - No scratches anywhere


With the cylinders off, I still have a hard time rotating the crank. I am assuming that this means there is a crank bearing gone. I have always been told that if a crank bearing goes, it is cheaper to get a short block, instead of getting the crank fixed. Is this true?

As well, when I removed the engine, I noticed that my oil pump cable was frayed badly, and I'm not sure how much longer it would have lasted. It is one of the items in the thread about issues/upgrades to the XPs.

 

[maxwell]

SHR in the states can rebuild your bottom end with a brand new crank for about 1000$

but even still your jugs may or may not be damaged and it will deffinetly require pistons.

so going to rebuild route you couuld be looking at 1500-1800$ or about 2100 for a shortblock.

not to mention TIME.

as far as the pistons are concerned they look fine to me minus the scratches but i would assume that was shrapnel from the crank damange

 

[Sleeper700]

Shortblock would definitely be much quicker. Does the piston wash look a little lean to you? Plugs looked good. Martin Motorsports says they have some shortblocks in stock, but I didn't get a firm price. It was fun figuring out how to get the yellow wires out of the magneto coil plug. The service manual says "Remove yellow wires", with no explanation that you have to pop out the blue cover, and then you can easily push the blade connectors out. It took some head scratching on that one.

I have a call in to Mott's Machining to see what he figures it would be worth to rebuild the crank, but I don't have my hopes up....

 

[Warhawk]

Okay by looking at your pics i think your wash looks good. You can see by your transfer ports you have very small pencil eraser size clean spot. And you also have some wash in line with your intake side.The wash looks a SMIDGE rich but i would leave it. The reason i say a smidge rich is because of the amount that is clean by your intake side.
MOST guys that tinker would jet down and look just for the pencil erasers at the transfer ports. BUT this will usually put you fairly close to the edge, and if you get the wrong batch of gas or any other variables change to much you could end up with a engine failure due to excessive heat.
with what im seeing this will give you a little room for a batch of not perfect but close fuel maybe some low snow conditions etc LOL.

Now the only way that you can belive anything that i have said is if you have been doing tests and have done full pulls,mid pulls to make sure that it is not lean in those areas of the throttle. Pistion wash can change it takes about a1/2mile to a mile to get a good read on the plug and you will also see a change on your pistion wash. BUT you have to have a base of what it looked like before.
sorry for being long winded but i hope this helps.


That being said what is the elevation you have been running this sled at and what was your plug color?

Darryl

 

[Warhawk]

P>S make sure that if you pulled the wires out of the regulator connector (red/black) that you put them in the right spot. If not sure go look at a buddys.

If wrong you will back feed the reg and blow it up. Possibly sending a surge to dpm module and paying for one of those as well.

 

[ridehard]

Pistons and cylinders look pretty undamaged to me, just showing normal (lite) wear.
I'd say get the crankcase pulled apart, and see what you've got there. If you're lucky, just a bad outer bearing; replace both there, check out & repack others, and reassemble, if top end clearances are ok, you've got a pretty reasonable repair parts-wise, except as was already mentioned, time (& gaskets, etc.)

 

[xpsledneck]

most short blocks also come with 1year warranty and cranks dont so if the new crank goes 4 any reason and takes out the case than you are fubared and have to pay more because u have no core. I put a new short block in for about 2300 done out the door with 1 year warranty from the dealer. that was with them swaping all the parts and cleaning up the clutch (new buttons and o rings).

 

[Sleeper700]

P>S make sure that if you pulled the wires out of the regulator connector (red/black) that you put them in the right spot. If not sure go look at a buddys.

If wrong you will back feed the reg and blow it up. Possibly sending a surge to dpm module and paying for one of those as well.

I pulled the 3 yellow's, not the red and black, as per the service manual. You would definitely have to mark which one was which if you pull the red and black.

 

[Sleeper700]

Okay by looking at your pics i think your wash looks good. You can see by your transfer ports you have very small pencil eraser size clean spot. And you also have some wash in line with your intake side.The wash looks a SMIDGE rich but i would leave it. The reason i say a smidge rich is because of the amount that is clean by your intake side.
MOST guys that tinker would jet down and look just for the pencil erasers at the transfer ports. BUT this will usually put you fairly close to the edge, and if you get the wrong batch of gas or any other variables change to much you could end up with a engine failure due to excessive heat.
with what im seeing this will give you a little room for a batch of not perfect but close fuel maybe some low snow conditions etc LOL.

Now the only way that you can belive anything that i have said is if you have been doing tests and have done full pulls,mid pulls to make sure that it is not lean in those areas of the throttle. Pistion wash can change it takes about a1/2mile to a mile to get a good read on the plug and you will also see a change on your pistion wash. BUT you have to have a base of what it looked like before.
sorry for being long winded but i hope this helps.


That being said what is the elevation you have been running this sled at and what was your plug color?

Darryl

I was riding Allan Creek when the engine seized (6500ft). The plugs were cardboard brown.

 

[Sleeper700]

most short blocks also come with 1year warranty and cranks dont so if the new crank goes 4 any reason and takes out the case than you are fubared and have to pay more because u have no core. I put a new short block in for about 2300 done out the door with 1 year warranty from the dealer. that was with them swaping all the parts and cleaning up the clutch (new buttons and o rings).

2300 sounds pretty good compared to what I have heard for shortblock including install. Where did you get this done?

 

[imdoo'n]

thinking the same. quoted 2300 for short block +700 core charge+ gst etc. then labour for install.

looks like you should get your core charge back. you could replace crank, gasket set, new rings, i'd change pistons for what it is worth. should be good for another 4-5 k. a short block will be quicker, and you will get warranty if a skidoo mechanic does install. may be the way to go, for a few dollars more.

 

[Sleeper700]

2 places have quoted me full list price on the short block ($2374.99) + core ($700). One @ 8hrs - $110/hr, and another at 7hrs - $89/hr to install. I asked the cheaper one if there would be any less time if I already had the old block stripped, and they squirmed a bit and wouldn't make any promises. I will most likely install it myself, as I don't put enough miles on in a year to make the 1 year warranty worth it, but I figured it should be worth at least 2 hours removing the motor, and everything off the old block. CVTech-AAB is listing a new crankshaft at $645 and it comes with bearings and isoflex grease ($200 core charge as well). I am going to split the crank case and check the case condition. If it is good, I think I am going to go the crankshaft route, and put a MCB dual ring piston kit in. This option would run me about $1000 all in. Would I need to replace the connecting rods if they look good? CVTech has them listed around $100/rod. Motts hasn't got back to me yet. The girl said that Tom is very busy right now. It is a hard pill to swallow this amount of money on a sled that has less than 2500kms....

 

[Warhawk]

if you get the crank from CVTECH it will be a complete assembly. you won't need the rods as they are already on the crank.

I have talked with these guys and they have changed the end bearing on the pto side to a wider bearing in hopes of fixing skidoos crank problems from factory. From what i understand it is helping(according to them).
When you do get the new crank from them i would love to see some pics of the difference from the stock crank. maybe some width measurements as well.
Give them a call and as them about it. He was easy to talk to at the stoon rec show.

 

[Sleeper700]

I just took the plate and seal off the crank side bearing and this is what I saw..... Just another PTO Crank Bearing Failure Zero Isoflex grease, a bunch of metal shavings, and mangled bearing balls. I had to use a bolt extractor on 2 of the allen key bolts that hold the plate on, as they were tight enough to strip the allen key while using a 1/4" ratchet.




I mentioned in an earlier post that the oil cable was frayed. Here is a pic.

 

[Warhawk]

same old crank problems. LOL i own one of these F*^k crap setups.

You know what we all Laugh at other brands. They all have issues. Its funny how when i was saying that my 010 PLUMMIT needed a crank everybody knocked me saying its because its was a rental and that people drove it hard.

i think some guys might be eating a little crow right now.:d


You are starting to see the same crap on 08,09,010 BRP product 800's Crank failure. right at the 2500mark.
Wait give it 2 years on the ETEC and you will have the same problems. around that 2500mile mark and cranks will be going out on them 2.

oh yes BRP is the best buy a brp no buy a polaris no buy a cat no buy a yamaha.

These engines are designed for one purpose HP the manufactures have been taking the longevity away and providing us with what we as a consumer want HP but the reliability has been slowly disappearing.

We the comsumer keep driving this market.

just my 2 cents

P>S little reading if you want to know about my issues and about the grease that brp uses
https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f460/2010-plumit-800r-problems-30888.html


good luck

 

[Sleeper700]

My biggest frustration is that this is at 2500km, not miles. I had venting right away, and clutch mods to reduce belt heat. Have only gone through 2 belts. I'm surprised to see the isoflex gone so early. I will be checking it religiously when I get it back together. The day before the bearing let go, I was telling a riding buddy that we should check the grease in both sleds (he has an 06) sometime soon. I guess I was 1 trip too late.

 

[maxwell]

same old crank problems. LOL i own one of these F*^k crap setups.

You know what we all Laugh at other brands. They all have issues. Its funny how when i was saying that my 010 PLUMMIT needed a crank everybody knocked me saying its because its was a rental and that people drove it hard.

i think some guys might be eating a little crow right now.:d


You are starting to see the same crap on 08,09,010 BRP product 800's Crank failure. right at the 2500mark.
Wait give it 2 years on the ETEC and you will have the same problems. around that 2500mile mark and cranks will be going out on them 2.

oh yes BRP is the best buy a brp no buy a polaris no buy a cat no buy a yamaha.

These engines are designed for one purpose HP the manufactures have been taking the longevity away and providing us with what we as a consumer want HP but the reliability has been slowly disappearing.

We the comsumer keep driving this market.

just my 2 cents

P>S little reading if you want to know about my issues and about the grease that brp uses
https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f460/2010-plumit-800r-problems-30888.html


good luck

i fail to see how using isoflex grease creates more HP than having a directly oiled bearing.

 

[maxwell]

2500km is low thats to bad. i usually load them back up at about 5000 and even then there is WAY more in there than what you have.

 

[Sleeper700]

To get the magneto off the crankshaft, do I need the ski-doo magneto puller like the service manual says? As well, the black silicone that holds the trigger coils to the magneto housing, can I use RTV (loctite 5910 is a type of RTV silicone according to the datasheet).

 

[maxwell]

no you can use a 3 jaw puller with 3 bolts from princess auto or crappy tire.

as for the rtv yes you can but i usually save that rtv that is on their and just install the coil back in their. its just to cushion it from vibration etc. the bolt is what secures it.