163 kills 174

[Mach1]

Well I just grabbed a 174 last night and will run as is to see what is what, then go from there. I don't know what is done to machine, so find out soon. Enjoy.....

 

[chrishew]

I don't know markoo. I think 35mph on a 174 steep climb late in the pull is probably not too far off. I mean I know snow conditions change everything but in good deep snow late in the climb when on mine and a buddies 163's were seeing 37-38 mph.

 

[GregW]

OK, so what is the magic gear ratio for the 174?

OK, so who is the magic man who's selling the answer?

 

[Lem Lamb]

Not all power plants are equal in hp/torque out put in the parking lot, up to us too get the best or closest bang for the buck at our choosing in adjustment of what the sled has or comes with,,, "and too dial in if after-market stuff is added into the picture. Of one's choosing of course."

Let the felt marker be your friend.

Put a felt marker line on both shives, then run unit full throttle in the wild too make sure both primary and secondary are opening and closing too the max, a primary clutch tuned for the motor that's spinning it will force that clutch to close fully.

Secondary will open all the way too if it's dialed in too,,, rule of thumb is too keep both clutches close,,, "give or take" at at least 90% too 92% of their optimum performance. This allows the clutches too kind-off have a backup over drive on the better snow condition days.

That means that when the snow pack is in the pluses that we can get an over-drive run at the hills,,, Ha,,, you'll know when this is working as you'll sift past your last high-marks...

Track and front shock tuning plays a roll too, more track bit makes belt and shives work harder / track spin the opposite,,, tune tune tune in what the person wants for him and sled.

So letting the shives max out kinda prevents any possiblitys of having over-drive,,, that sucks goats milk on the better days, Ha.

Go ride, and get "all" the suspension dialed in, rebound track spring, front shocks, and allow for some bottoming out,,, this allows the track and sled too get back on top of snow faster/ stiff sprung units "could" end up trenching more... Think of the whole package in smaller parts, and working together kinda,,, let's say the 50/50 or 80/20 and so on.

1-The power plant.
2- Clutching
3- Dialing them in with idea of allowing over drive.
4- Gearing with willing-ness too adjust as needed.

Sled classy time.
1- Think "all" springs, shocks, and adjustments too get best out of them.
2- Track angle and limiter straps as well as ski pressure too.
3- Set-up once and leave it with option of small adjustments threw the year, or fiddle muck with it on each ride,,, "each persons choosing."
5- Learning what bests settings the rider wants, stiff or soft, hard for aggressive, medium for the 50/50, and soft for the fluffy fluffy as it allows unit and rider with pack weigh too get the show up on-top of snow faster...
Practise and tune at ones choosing.

Sorry for the long post.

Our fast plan was
1- Suspension "all"
2- Clutching and Gearing with change.
3- Maximizing the above and alot the benefits of about 10 ish % of over drive,,, real plus on the fast days.
4- Old Timer set-up of do it and drive it.
5- Is younger folk constant tuning too get up to speed, Ha

Practic, tune, dial, re-tune, practic, dial, tune and repeat over and over.

Learn the snow and go once it all comes together. Take notes at first then one day it becomes natural too get best bang for the buck on what your sled will allow.

Lem Lamb at sharing in ideas as the theatre is a mile wide and a inch deep,,, same can be said for areas that are a mile deep and inch wide as each choose their own line in the snow.

 

[Lund]

The average track speed for most all stock Doo's will be around 37-38mph. The reason i know this is because BRP engineers use a certain formula to calculate the ratio that is proper for that unit. This calculation has not changed in 15yrs.
There is approximately another 4-6mph to be had on a stock Doo, if you know what your doing. Any stock Doo can be spun up in deep snow to hit the 44-45mph if you have enough experience in tuning, BTW with no engine mods.

So why does this happen, why does BRP not tune for the best performance? Well they DO, the best performance for the average rider. BRP has NO idea who is buying the sled, could be a beginner or advance rider. Could be a 120lb or a 320lb rider, get the picture.

 

[Lund]

OK, so who is the magic man who's selling the answer?

You sound like the guy looking for a quick fix with them 2 post...sorry in my book you need to earn. You already been given info for track speed on big track sleds, now figure the rest out.

BTW i suggest you read Lem Lamb post.

 

[GregW]

You sound like the guy looking for a quick fix with them 2 post...sorry in my book you need to earn. You already been given info for track speed on big track sleds, now figure the rest out.

BTW i suggest you read Lem Lamb post.

As for my 2 posts, I rarely post anything here as the crew here tend to devour their own. As for my experience and earning the answers, I've paid my dues through 25 years of building and wrenching on just about any and every kind of modded sled.

Clutching and gearing is a black box to most and as always those that proclaim to know the answers won't tell and that's unfortunate. This post and your response demonstrates that.

 

[Lund]

As for my 2 posts, I rarely post anything here as the crew here tend to devour their own. As for my experience and earning the answers, I've paid my dues through 25 years of building and wrenching on just about any and every kind of modded sled.

Clutching and gearing is a black box to most and as always those that proclaim to know the answers won't tell and that's unfortunate. This post and your response demonstrates that.

Cool, so all that experience should work good for you then. Good luck, its not like you have lots of options. Wonder what he's going to do with his clutches once he changes the gearing????

BTW, you have lots to learn if you figure there is a magic gearing that will work and fits all that rides a snowmobile with a 174.
Read my last post WHY BRP gears their sled the way they do.

 

[lilduke]

As for my 2 posts, I rarely post anything here as the crew here tend to devour their own. As for my experience and earning the answers, I've paid my dues through 25 years of building and wrenching on just about any and every kind of modded sled.

Clutching and gearing is a black box to most and as always those that proclaim to know the answers won't tell and that's unfortunate. This post and your response demonstrates that.

"proclaim" is the key word there...lol Talk to Boost-it, they will sell you some track speed for your 174.

 

[mur190]

Gearing,clutching 101/misc ramblings on a summer day - REV-XP / XM Chassis - Mountain Sleds - DOOTalk Forums

a lot of money spent and a lot of trial and error and finesse tweaking goes into each ones set up that's looking for a sled length on the rest of the boys, (hell I got to the point I could change gears on the side of the hill in 10-15mins and not lose the oil)

so many peeps will log a few thousand km,s and never have the desire to split a TRA open.
Then theres the fellows that figure a generic off the shelf clutch kit from someone 1000 miles away is going to make their sled perform....
If you want a kit, just make sure you buy from someone that asks you a lot of questions, (riding style, weight, elevation, what rpm you like clutches to engage)

 

[cedarpoint]

you must have a sick 174 t3 if 163 are out climbing you I have never had a 163 out climb my 174 in the deep snow they are a monster think you better get your 174 dialed in

 

[Lund]

"proclaim" is the key word there...lol Talk to Boost-it, they will sell you some track speed for your 174.

I could tell him 0ne tooth bigger on the top gear or two. Or one tooth smaller on the bottom gear, even a combination. But what help is that when i know nothing about him and what is he looking for.
His best bet is to experiment, there is no ONE gear setup for all. We are all different, the key thing here is they are geared too low with the 174 tracks to generate and maximize the track speed. So knowing that alone should get anyone with some knowledge well on their way to set their sled up for their style.
One also needs to understand that doing a gear change up or down WILL effect clutching, so what does a dude do then???? Tuning comes with experimenting and experience and every sled will be different to achieve its best.

 

[lilduke]

I could tell him 0ne tooth bigger on the top gear or two. Or one tooth smaller on the bottom gear, even a combination. But what help is that when i know nothing about him and what is he looking for.
His best bet is to experiment, there is no ONE gear setup for all. We are all different, the key thing here is they are geared too low with the 174 tracks to generate and maximize the track speed. So knowing that alone should get anyone with some knowledge well on their way to set their sled up for their style.
One also needs to understand that doing a gear change up or down WILL effect clutching, so what does a dude do then???? Tuning comes with experimenting and experience and every sled will be different to achieve its best.

Very true Lund. My point is dicking around all season with your clutching might get you that extra sled length on your Buddy.

What you need is a turbo for a 174 IMO. That's why I say just go talk to TJ at boost-it.

 

[snopro]

High altitude calibration on the mountain sleds by Ski-doo is all about finding a set up that works fairly good between 4000-8000 ft. This was explained to me by the lead calibration guy for Ski-doo mountain group back in 2007. There is definately better calibration left on the table if you want to fine tune for your riding elevation and snow conditions but they have to come up with a set up that is "good" in all those elevation changes. You can thank your stars that the calibration is now broken up between low/ high elevation and high/ high elevation rather than what it used to be when all the calibration was done only in Grand Lake, Colorado where my buddy Chris Ruske ran the test centre. Starting elevation for testing there was around 9500 ft and went as high as 13000 ft. This is why Carl and CKMP was brought into the fold.

 

[kanedog]

Getting a sled length on your buddy is easy. All you have to do is clean and maintain your clutches and one or 2 small things. A lot of riders dont do routine maintenance. It's a different story to get the clutches and Gearing etc all working together close to the best that they possibly can.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[fredw]

174s running less than 40mph in a climb is not running it at its potential, more of a trencher than anything struggling to stay on top.. Might be why some guys are seeing better climbing on the smaller track

turbos taking track speed to 60plus on the 174, it becomes quickly seen how much better the track does, and stays on top..

 

[pfi572]

Your comment doesn't make any sense Fred.
Of course more power and track speed will make a huge difference .
Set up correctly a 174 "stock to stock engines "will dominate in the deep.

 

[fredw]

Makes sense to me.. If your a trencher, your a loser.. Track speed dominates

 

[Baraaaaaap Obama]

Makes sense to me.. If your a trencher, your a loser.. Track speed dominates

Also not everyone has 5-10 k to spend on a Turbo setup... Buying a 17k machine and setting it up will take you into some fun places...
Turbo sleds look like it gets you into gnarly Avy terrain.

 

[Lund]

Also not everyone has 5-10 k to spend on a Turbo setup... Buying a 17k machine and setting it up will take you into some fun places...
Turbo sleds look like it gets you into gnarly Avy terrain.

Because a guy turbo's a sled it doesn't mean it is working properly. Turbo sleds tend to hind their efficiencies or inefficiencies way better then a non turbo, you can get away with a lot on a turbo vs non turbo.
IMO not a good way to setup, first know how to setup a sled properly to perform, then think about a turbo. That's the sled that everyone will rave about and stands alone.