YZ450F or YZ250?
- Thread starter Lowlife82
- Start date
polarisdragon800
Active VIP Member
What kind of riding do you plan on doing? I'd say 2 stroke either way.
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- Thread starter
- #3
mavrick
Active VIP Member
have u done much riding on bikes before as the 450 is a lot of bike for new riders, a 250f is a great ride for newer riders if u are not racing i would say a 4 stroke
Tristan88
Active member
4 stroke
polarisdragon800
Active VIP Member
I say two stroke. Wicked fun powerband, light, easy to work on. Yamahas 2-strokes are great bikes.
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mavrick
Active VIP Member
two strokes are fun yes but have their place on the track where u can ride wide open,imo if u ride in thight areas a four stoke is better something u can lug in frist and second and not have to worry but hitting the powerband by mistake or over heating because u are not flying wide open. thats also why i would say a 250 because they are lighter to toss then a 450 and a good rider in the bush on a 250f will beet or at least hang with a great 450 rider just my 2 cents
Mr Husaberg
Active member
They are both great bikes. I general find that 4 stks are easier to ride fast. The large amount of torque allows for lazy gear changes and no clutch work to keep it in the power. The torque of the 450s can be a beast and will wear you out more than a 250f on long technical rides. 450's rule the dunes!
Riding a well jetted and fresh 250 2stk is truly an incredible experience. I can ride them faster and for longer than a 4stk any day. The only down side is getting it jetted. Not a huge deal but super important. You also need to be realistic about your abilities. 2 stks are more challenging to ride well. When you are tired and on a greasy climb their is a lot of stuff going on on a 2 strk. On a 4 stk you can just point and shoot and it will pull you over the top.
If you are not racing off road or at the track jumping 60 ft gaps a wr or crf will be a much better bike.
Riding a well jetted and fresh 250 2stk is truly an incredible experience. I can ride them faster and for longer than a 4stk any day. The only down side is getting it jetted. Not a huge deal but super important. You also need to be realistic about your abilities. 2 stks are more challenging to ride well. When you are tired and on a greasy climb their is a lot of stuff going on on a 2 strk. On a 4 stk you can just point and shoot and it will pull you over the top.
If you are not racing off road or at the track jumping 60 ft gaps a wr or crf will be a much better bike.
Take it from a racer, Four strokes suck for anything but racing. The two stroke is 1)lighter, 2) cheaper, 3) safer, 4) cheaper to maintain, 5) quieter. 6) MORE FUN. The four stroke: 1) hides your mistakes, 2) has an unfair displacement advantage in racing (although that is changing). Do yourself a favour and get a 2 stroke.
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
Most guys in this thread are bang on. I ride a 2 stroke and probably always will, they are more challenging and more fun to ride and you can ride longer on them. Only downfall is that they are carbed. I will probably be doing an EG 295 kit in my YZ for this summer cause I am a big boy lol.
mavrick
Active VIP Member
safer????wtf and u said cheaper twice lol and quieter time to clean out your ears son
Each have there place. 2 smoke are cheaper in the long run to use. If you plan to race mx. 4 stroke. If its for trail or tight tree's. 2 smoke.modern mx 4strokes dont like the tight tree riding, they heat up and stall easy. Ive owned both so im unbias
somethingnuw
Active VIP Member
Guys i ride a 450x so I love my 4 stroke but I have been hearing a lot abot the KTM 300 ex-c i think it is... they say it's the best of both world... good low end 4 stroke power with the top end and easy maintenance of a 2 stroke????? Anyone have any experience with this bike? I may be in the market for an upgrade or down grade depending how you see it...
Bnorth
Active VIP Member
The ktm 300 is a fantastic bike, tons of torque and still comes on the pipe nicely and pulls hard up top. Most of my buddies ride GasGas 300's they are beasts! Torque like a 4 stroke and come on the pipe hard like a 250, they make about 50hp bone stock.
I disagree with a lot of stuff mentioned on this site and wonder how many of you have actually rode the bikes you speak of?
I agree with those that say 2-strokes are cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain in the long run, and better resale value. A newer 250 have TONS of torque and more then ample power. Any more and you face the wear down effect of unnecessary power (Ie, 450's and 300 2t)
That being said many like 4-strokes for their electric start (trail and some MX versions), added traction, and ease of throttle control. The downside is their weight which is fine when riding, but you tend to suffer from it when wrestling the bike.
There's a time and place for all bikes. While speaking about bikes I'm talking trail riding, mostly gnarly, technical trail riding. Many (almost most) serious riders ride two strokes because they know the benefit and more interested in riding 3-4 hours non-stop without fatigue. They also know how to caress the quick power of a 2-stroke to their benefit. Modern 2-strokes don't have the "powerband" the old bikes did. Powervalves have changed all that and they have great torque with a cross-over point where the valve opens and HP kicks in. It's not like riding a 90's 2-smoke.
That being said, 4strokes have come a long way as well. They now start for starters.. har har. EFI and many having happy buttons make them a pleasure to ride. They are fun and easy to ride which is what sells them. One thing to keep in mind is power is not everything. A 250F ridden by a competent rider will still be wicked fast and probably have more fun then on a 450. I always enjoy riding 250F's, but at times I can see the power being an issue only when getting caught in the wrong gear, and having to gear change a lot more. There's something wicked fun about riding one all WOT and careless and still being in control though. It brings a smile to my face at least. The engine braking and reasonably quick handling make it a nice change from my two strokes until I have to wrestle or fight the bike.
If you look 2stroke, look at only the newer ones. Same with 4-strokes. For 2-stroke the 00+ CR's were torquey and a trail favourite, same with ~03+ YZ250's. RM's seem to lack a bit of torque (I owned an 04 too), and KTM don't bother unless it's 08+. The newer handling is well worth the extra money. (I also owned an 08 KTMXC).
Older 4-strokes can be money pits. 05/06 down were often bad at overheating and poor at starting. 07+ were much better in that regard.
Here's another MASSIVELY important point. DO NOT BUY A MX BIKE FOR TRAIL USE! Sure, it can be done but you'll hate yourself. 18" tires, different gear sets, happy button, power characteristics, etc massively change the way a bike works on a trail. If you are going to mostly ride trail, or even 50/50 I'd still go trail bike. Stiffer springs and dampening can be changed for the odd, non-competitive track day. A track bike can't be made a good trail bike without a ton of work. They are often cheaper then a trail bike with good local trails for a reason. Nobody wants them.
Good luck with the hunt. If I were looking (and I somewhat am) I'd consider a GasGas for their quality ride and cheap resale (smaller seating ergonomics though), same with Husqvarna. Also, "older" KTM's because of the KTM bandwagoneers. 08-10's can be had for a much more reasonable cost now and they are good bikes for the most part.
For 4-strokes, Husaberg's are dirt cheap used (and very expensive new). Just watch out for the FI problems. WR's and CRF-X's have always been a solid bet but some of the KTM specific trail bikes were good too. The 450 and 530's being street legal as well in certain packages/years. Probably best to avoid the Kawasaki, Suzuki, etc if you want to sell the bike for more then a few pennies, although I've been dieing to try the RMZ450.
The bike I have now? 03' Honda XR650R. Besides the gearing it's a hoot of a bike. I've rode it now 20,000km in foreign countries in the last year - 4,000 KM of Baja in Feb, and just finished a solo 16,000KM trip from Moab, Baja, Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico, and back to Phoenix. It really shows what's important. It's not about being the fastest, not the newest, absolutely not the coolest or best looking, its about having fun. The XRR is a wicked fun bike. I can keep up or be faster then most of my buddies on moderate trails but I can also take it on dual sport trips where we camp every night on mountains, etc. That being said I'm missing the gnarly technical rides I enjoy and will be buying a used bike again this year.
Good luck and have fun!
(Also stay on designated trails, don't abuse the environment, and be responsbile. Pack out your garbage)
I agree with those that say 2-strokes are cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain in the long run, and better resale value. A newer 250 have TONS of torque and more then ample power. Any more and you face the wear down effect of unnecessary power (Ie, 450's and 300 2t)
That being said many like 4-strokes for their electric start (trail and some MX versions), added traction, and ease of throttle control. The downside is their weight which is fine when riding, but you tend to suffer from it when wrestling the bike.
There's a time and place for all bikes. While speaking about bikes I'm talking trail riding, mostly gnarly, technical trail riding. Many (almost most) serious riders ride two strokes because they know the benefit and more interested in riding 3-4 hours non-stop without fatigue. They also know how to caress the quick power of a 2-stroke to their benefit. Modern 2-strokes don't have the "powerband" the old bikes did. Powervalves have changed all that and they have great torque with a cross-over point where the valve opens and HP kicks in. It's not like riding a 90's 2-smoke.
That being said, 4strokes have come a long way as well. They now start for starters.. har har. EFI and many having happy buttons make them a pleasure to ride. They are fun and easy to ride which is what sells them. One thing to keep in mind is power is not everything. A 250F ridden by a competent rider will still be wicked fast and probably have more fun then on a 450. I always enjoy riding 250F's, but at times I can see the power being an issue only when getting caught in the wrong gear, and having to gear change a lot more. There's something wicked fun about riding one all WOT and careless and still being in control though. It brings a smile to my face at least. The engine braking and reasonably quick handling make it a nice change from my two strokes until I have to wrestle or fight the bike.
If you look 2stroke, look at only the newer ones. Same with 4-strokes. For 2-stroke the 00+ CR's were torquey and a trail favourite, same with ~03+ YZ250's. RM's seem to lack a bit of torque (I owned an 04 too), and KTM don't bother unless it's 08+. The newer handling is well worth the extra money. (I also owned an 08 KTMXC).
Older 4-strokes can be money pits. 05/06 down were often bad at overheating and poor at starting. 07+ were much better in that regard.
Here's another MASSIVELY important point. DO NOT BUY A MX BIKE FOR TRAIL USE! Sure, it can be done but you'll hate yourself. 18" tires, different gear sets, happy button, power characteristics, etc massively change the way a bike works on a trail. If you are going to mostly ride trail, or even 50/50 I'd still go trail bike. Stiffer springs and dampening can be changed for the odd, non-competitive track day. A track bike can't be made a good trail bike without a ton of work. They are often cheaper then a trail bike with good local trails for a reason. Nobody wants them.
Good luck with the hunt. If I were looking (and I somewhat am) I'd consider a GasGas for their quality ride and cheap resale (smaller seating ergonomics though), same with Husqvarna. Also, "older" KTM's because of the KTM bandwagoneers. 08-10's can be had for a much more reasonable cost now and they are good bikes for the most part.
For 4-strokes, Husaberg's are dirt cheap used (and very expensive new). Just watch out for the FI problems. WR's and CRF-X's have always been a solid bet but some of the KTM specific trail bikes were good too. The 450 and 530's being street legal as well in certain packages/years. Probably best to avoid the Kawasaki, Suzuki, etc if you want to sell the bike for more then a few pennies, although I've been dieing to try the RMZ450.
The bike I have now? 03' Honda XR650R. Besides the gearing it's a hoot of a bike. I've rode it now 20,000km in foreign countries in the last year - 4,000 KM of Baja in Feb, and just finished a solo 16,000KM trip from Moab, Baja, Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico, and back to Phoenix. It really shows what's important. It's not about being the fastest, not the newest, absolutely not the coolest or best looking, its about having fun. The XRR is a wicked fun bike. I can keep up or be faster then most of my buddies on moderate trails but I can also take it on dual sport trips where we camp every night on mountains, etc. That being said I'm missing the gnarly technical rides I enjoy and will be buying a used bike again this year.
Good luck and have fun!
(Also stay on designated trails, don't abuse the environment, and be responsbile. Pack out your garbage)
- Thread starter
- #16
Oh, and the louder thing is strictly factual. Many people dislike the higher pitch noise of the 2 stroke, but the low frequency of the four stoke 1) carries further, and 2) is less directional. This leads to more complaints from neighbors and more track closures.
TheMuffinMan
Active VIP Member
There are aspects of both that I like. Four-stroke likes: torque, no mixing fuel, less shifting, less sensitive to temp and elevation changes.
Four stroke dislikes: weight, noise (love the way they sound just not how far it carries), more maintenance intensive (if you want one to last anyway).
Two stroke likes: cheap and easy to fix, the sound (braaap!), light is right, and I dont have to get super nervous every time I cross a river or stream because drowning it is not a potential $2000 oops. Two stroke dislikes: vibration (hate it hate it hate it), premixing, re jetting on cold days so the thing doesn't melt down on me.
Basically when KTM makes a fuel injected two stroke with rubber mounted bars and a free ratio-rite, count me in!
Four stroke dislikes: weight, noise (love the way they sound just not how far it carries), more maintenance intensive (if you want one to last anyway).
Two stroke likes: cheap and easy to fix, the sound (braaap!), light is right, and I dont have to get super nervous every time I cross a river or stream because drowning it is not a potential $2000 oops. Two stroke dislikes: vibration (hate it hate it hate it), premixing, re jetting on cold days so the thing doesn't melt down on me.
Basically when KTM makes a fuel injected two stroke with rubber mounted bars and a free ratio-rite, count me in!
Same thing happens on 2strokes if they stall in the air,,just ask my good friend Craig Phillips he was a pro fmxer top 5rider in canada.I say was cause he doesnt ride to much any more.
He spent a month in a comma and lost part of his liver and splean when his cr250 stalled over a big F'in jump filming for On the Pipe5...
Stall in the air=bad news 2 or 4 stroke...
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