Your engine failure history

[Lund]

The Fuji engines used in older Polaris and Rotax rotary valved were tough as hell. The older Suzuki not so much, it wasn't till the newer generation Suzuki's such as the ones used in the F and M-series that Suzuki produced an engine that was tough. Todays inhouse engine for Cat imo has not proven better.
Once Polaris went away from Fuji and introduced their own the plague of engine issues started, they've come a long way in both power and durability today but it has taken a while.
Similarly BRP, once they moved from their stellar rotary to their series 3 engines the problems started and continued till imo the Etech. They too have come a long way but its taken a long time.
Today on average the newer engine don't appear to get more life then their predecessors but the HP is much higher, maybe this is a contributing factor. The newer engines with newer tech are more on the threshold. Maybe technology has served well in HP gains but essentially has also been the enemy of durability over the years.
The 800 class maybe or could be 15-20HP over its threshold, maybe 140hp would be the line but at 160-65 just pushes them beyond being solidly reliable long term.
Its interesting to see that no one has manage to build a solid 1000cc yet that hold's reliably and makes HP, BRP and Cat 1000 were far from great.
Now with the new designed 850's time will tell in long term durability and maybe a 900 or 950 is in the very near future.

 

[snowcannon]

2004 vertical mistake 1200miles no engine problems
2007 skidoo summit x 151 blew up at 1000km
2008 rmk 700 low compression but kept riding and snapped the crank off at 2500miles
2009 m8 turbo boondocker ran like **** so never rode it
2010 m8 stock snapped piston in half at 1500 miles
2012 polaris pro No engine issues, sat in the shop with electrical problems entire winter
2013 polaris pro No engine issues
2014 polaris pro 1800 miles lower rod bearing
2016 axys 2000 miles new pistons installed, 2300 miles installed a new crate engine
2017 axys 1800 miles new top end
2016 axys 2400 miles complete new engine
2018 mountain cat 1600 miles complete new engine

Probably racked about $60k of warranty work. My second 2016 axys was my longest lasting engine. I've noticed when I get new engines they feel detuned and weak.

you should be hired by one of the manufacturers to test new sleds.
Or maybe not. Sleds would never reach release stage due to constant failure...

 

[jhurkot]

Been waiting for this post lol. Now how many belts you figure in all those years Johnny?

I’d guess about 100.

 

[snopro]

you should be hired by one of the manufacturers to test new sleds.
Or maybe not. Sleds would never reach release stage due to constant failure...

Yes he should. Be more fun than farming. Lol

 

[Longhairfreak]

The Fuji engines used in older Polaris and Rotax rotary valved were tough as hell. The older Suzuki not so much, it wasn't till the newer generation Suzuki's such as the ones used in the F and M-series that Suzuki produced an engine that was tough. Todays inhouse engine for Cat imo has not proven better.
Once Polaris went away from Fuji and introduced their own the plague of engine issues started, they've come a long way in both power and durability today but it has taken a while.
Similarly BRP, once they moved from their stellar rotary to their series 3 engines the problems started and continued till imo the Etech. They too have come a long way but its taken a long time.
Today on average the newer engine don't appear to get more life then their predecessors but the HP is much higher, maybe this is a contributing factor. The newer engines with newer tech are more on the threshold. Maybe technology has served well in HP gains but essentially has also been the enemy of durability over the years.
The 800 class maybe or could be 15-20HP over its threshold, maybe 140hp would be the line but at 160-65 just pushes them beyond being solidly reliable long term.
Its interesting to see that no one has manage to build a solid 1000cc yet that hold's reliably and makes HP, BRP and Cat 1000 were far from great.
Now with the new designed 850's time will tell in long term durability and maybe a 900 or 950 is in the very near future.

The only reason the Fuji engines were reliable was because they made no power. I think the Suzuki 8-900 twins were over built. They had some big bearings on the crank.

 

[Lund]

The only reason the Fuji engines were reliable was because they made no power. I think the Suzuki 8-900 twins were over built. They had some big bearings on the crank.

I totally agree, I had a 900 Cat and that sled was pretty much bullet proof but like you said over built which made them very heavy.
We use to split the cranks on these 8 and 900 and make triples with them for that very reason, weld up the case halves and end up with a custom triple power house.
Also they were one of my favorite to turn in to a 1010, weld the crank with some porting and pipes and reeds and voila 200+hp.

On Suzuki the newer generation made equivalent if not slightly better power then the older design, it was lighter and was designed to lay lower in the chassis, it was just as robust.
So my statement in saying the 8-900 early Suzuki's had a reliability issue isn't correct, my thoughts must had been thinking else where to say that lol.

 

[Lund]

I totally agree, I had a 900 Cat and that sled was pretty much bullet proof but like you said over built which made them very heavy.
We use to split the cranks on these 8 and 900 and make triples with them for that very reason, weld up the case halves and end up with a custom triple power house.
Also they were one of my favorite to turn in to a 1010, weld the crank with some porting and pipes and reeds and voila 200+hp.

On Suzuki the newer generation made equivalent if not slightly better power then the older design, it was lighter and was designed to lay lower in the chassis, it was just as robust.
So my statement in saying the 8-900 early Suzuki's had a reliability issue isn't correct, my thoughts must had been thinking else where to say that lol.

Actually to my above statement the early Suzuki 8-900 were known to have crank failures. Yes they had big bearings but that was never an issue with them.
The issue was cranks falling out of phase, working loose, especially the 900. To make this engine stellar you needed to weld the crank otherwise any mods to make HP would eventually lead to a crank issue. This is something Suzuki addressed in the newer gen 800. This is probably why I made my first statement.

 

[Longhairfreak]

Actually to my above statement the early Suzuki 8-900 were known to have crank failures. Yes they had big bearings but that was never an issue with them.
The issue was cranks falling out of phase, working loose, especially the 900. To make this engine stellar you needed to weld the crank otherwise any mods to make HP would eventually lead to a crank issue. This is something Suzuki addressed in the newer gen 800. This is probably why I made my first statement.

I found out the hard way. I bought a used 800 bottom end for my 1160. I think the welding was sub par. Ripped the crank in half drag racing on Blue Lake. $4500 later.

 

[Longhairfreak]

I totally agree, I had a 900 Cat and that sled was pretty much bullet proof but like you said over built which made them very heavy.
We use to split the cranks on these 8 and 900 and make triples with them for that very reason, weld up the case halves and end up with a custom triple power house.
Also they were one of my favorite to turn in to a 1010, weld the crank with some porting and pipes and reeds and voila 200+hp.

On Suzuki the newer generation made equivalent if not slightly better power then the older design, it was lighter and was designed to lay lower in the chassis, it was just as robust.
So my statement in saying the 8-900 early Suzuki's had a reliability issue isn't correct, my thoughts must had been thinking else where to say that lol.

Art made a 1740 like that. 300 HP on 91 octane.

 

[Lund]

Suzuki twins turned into triples was CR-racing main bread and butter back in the day. We took a lot of the top prizes back then in the hill climb drags in Pemberton and Hains Junction Alaska.
The biggest one Chad put together was around 1800cc for a customer in Vancouver(a lawyer) sled got totalled first time out in Pemberton. $75,000. I don't remember dynoing so don't know the ponies.
Then in early 2000 Chad built his first Yamaha RX1 and then in Pemberton and Hains dominated the season, even killing his custom triple builds out there. That was a major milestone for CR-racing. Orders for custom 4strokes were coming through the roof and the Suzuki custom engines came to an end.

 

[pfi572]

Ralph at Split second built a 2 litre triple back in the day for fella in Dawson Creek .
It was built to kick the four stroke Yamaha’s ass . Lol
Did it ? Yep !!
Would it live ? Nope .
Classic trouble as well in the old Cat classic as would keep breaking everything. No surprise.

 

[Lund]

Ralph at Split second built a 2 litre triple back in the day for fella in Dawson Creek .
It was built to kick the four stroke Yamaha’s ass . Lol
Did it ? Yep !!
Would it live ? Nope .
Classic trouble as well in the old Cat classic as would keep breaking everything. No surprise.

Yes I actually know a dude that had a 2litre custom engine. We nicked named him 2litre, real name was Dave. LOL
He lives in that area.

 

[pfi572]

Yes I actually know a dude that had a 2litre custom engine. We nicked named him 2litre, real name was Dave. LOL

You are correct .

 

[Lund]

You are correct .

I rode a fair amount with Mr 2litre in the past. Sledding community, small world.

 

[snopro]

Anybody know how Ralph is doing and what he's doing. Got to know him pretty good years past through Darryl Baker. Used to ship him all his Rotax parts for probably 5 yrs then he kinda took a break. Havent talked to him since.

 

[Bnorth]

I rode a fair amount with Mr 2litre in the past. Sledding community, small world.

Met him once through you. Was 1st guy I saw go over Turbo at Boulder had an XP with 174 and spray IIRC.

 

[Lund]

Met him once through you. Was 1st guy I saw go over Turbo at Boulder had an XP with 174 and spray IIRC.

Very true, that was during the Dootalk rides I use to yearly put on, you rode with him more then once.
I invited Dave to come out for it and he brought along his buddy Paul and Wayne(Mr.Clutch and POPPS). Dave loved climbing.

 

[pfi572]

Very true, that was during the Dootalk rides I use to yearly put on, you rode with him more then once.
I invited Dave to come out for it and he brought along his buddy Paul and Wayne(Mr.Clutch and POPPS). Dave loved climbing.

Took me a bit . Lol

https://youtu.be/Gy0xKSsX9zA


https://youtu.be/LlMeQUI8E0s


https://youtu.be/gfmNQztEAXE

 

[NoBrakes!]

^^^^ big power! sounds great

 

[Lund]

Took me a bit . Lol

https://youtu.be/Gy0xKSsX9zA


https://youtu.be/LlMeQUI8E0s


https://youtu.be/gfmNQztEAXE

Thanks for sharing, Dave and Paul were a blast to ride with. Last time I rode with Dave he was on a full carbon fiber XM turbo 174.
That was awhile. I might even have a picture of it, if I find it i'll post it.