Will common sense prevail?

[rzrgade]

It's interesting in the USA every thing to do with natives ( housing / trucks /signs /band names etc ) are still called Indians ... Respectfully.
They have 0 issues with it .

When will we realize that what ever the current name is that they prefer , will soon change again , just as an example of their ability to create conflict within our society. It is the way they bring up the matter to incite racial tension and their idea of past discrimination, as well as the right to more benefits based off the presumptive notion that they were here first...

In short it is a game , they play against us ...and always win....$$$


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[eclipse1966]

a friend sent this to me by email and found it fitting for this thread


I think all sports fans will get a kick out of this letter written to the Chicago Tribune....
No matter which side you are on in the matter of renaming the Washing Redskins, this is funny. This guy is hilarious…
Here is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.
Dear Mr. Page: I agree with our Native American population. I am highly insulted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.
Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.
I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates!Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves..As a die hard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers (especially when they play Southern California . Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???)I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the “Foreskins” to better represent their community, paying tribute to the dick heads in Congress.

 

[frock]

It's interesting in the USA every thing to do with natives ( housing / trucks /signs /band names etc ) are still called Indians ... Respectfully.
They have 0 issues with it .

When will we realize that what ever the current name is that they prefer , will soon change again , just as an example of their ability to create conflict within our society. It is the way they bring up the matter to incite racial tension and their idea of past discrimination, as well as the right to more benefits based off the presumptive notion that they were here first...

In short it is a game , they play against us ...and always win....$$$


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I agree that things have gotten way out of hand on this issue, but there is a couple of things in your post I'm not understanding. "incite racial tension and their idea of past discrimination", the residential schools weren't their idea and it sure as hell was discrimination. My mother was born and raised in Atlin and the Southern Yukon where my grandparents had a truckstop on the Alaska Highway. I've heard her stories of busloads of native children stopping to fuel up. The buses had bars on the windows and the children on them were screaming and crying. If these were white kids being stolen from their parents it would be called something a hell of a lot worse than discrimination.

"based off the presumptive notion that they were here first", seriously. They were here thousands of years before the first white person.

 

[rightsideup]

Interesting stuff...when do the animal rights groups start protesting...no more blue jays,raptors,lions,cubs,

 

[pipes]

Obituary of Common Sense !
Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.
Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium. No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.
For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.
A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math.
But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus. In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation.
He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.
As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.
Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason. His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
Author Unknown

 

[LennyR]

I agree that things have gotten way out of hand on this issue, but there is a couple of things in your post I'm not understanding. "incite racial tension and their idea of past discrimination", the residential schools weren't their idea and it sure as hell was discrimination. My mother was born and raised in Atlin and the Southern Yukon where my grandparents had a truckstop on the Alaska Highway. I've heard her stories of busloads of native children stopping to fuel up. The buses had bars on the windows and the children on them were screaming and crying. If these were white kids being stolen from their parents it would be called something a hell of a lot worse than discrimination.

"based off the presumptive notion that they were here first", seriously. They were here thousands of years before the first white person.

but what he said is true, that is what they've been doing. And unfortunately , that's about all . So you're saying that whatever the situation, however stupid and out of hand , because of past injustices, we should continue to pander and tolerate these moronic , idealistic initiatives , one usually stupider than the last because of a need to not offend someone. Wow, And we wonder why we have an Indian problem in Canada. 130 ish years, gazillions of dollars, frustrated champion after frustrated champion, program after program , free free free, tax exemptions on everything, free schooling, on and on, and still can't gain some pride and become productive and get off the tit. And it's all because of past injustices, poor us, we are still traumatized by what happened to our kids 75 years ago, and it happened cause the powers at that time realized what a $hitshow they were creating within their own families and attempted to create a situation to help the Indians with something that already back then people could see they were screwing it all up, unfortunately it turned out to be a bigger $hit show cause they chose to depend on a bunch of perverted creeps hiding behind their bibles.
So you suggest, that if we change the long standing names of sports teams and buildings that were quite often named in honour of them, that'll somehow appease those kids and parents ?

 

[frock]

but what he said is true, that is what they've been doing. And unfortunately , that's about all . So you're saying that whatever the situation, however stupid and out of hand , because of past injustices, we should continue to pander and tolerate these moronic , idealistic initiatives , one usually stupider than the last because of a need to not offend someone. Wow, And we wonder why we have an Indian problem in Canada. 130 ish years, gazillions of dollars, frustrated champion after frustrated champion, program after program , free free free, tax exemptions on everything, free schooling, on and on, and still can't gain some pride and become productive and get off the tit. And it's all because of past injustices, poor us, we are still traumatized by what happened to our kids 75 years ago, and it happened cause the powers at that time realized what a $hitshow they were creating within their own families and attempted to create a situation to help the Indians with something that already back then people could see they were screwing it all up, unfortunately it turned out to be a bigger $hit show cause they chose to depend on a bunch of perverted creeps hiding behind their bibles.
So you suggest, that if we change the long standing names of sports teams and buildings that were quite often named in honour of them, that'll somehow appease those kids and parents ?

Did you read before you posted? My opening line clearly states that I agree things are way out of hand on this issue. For sure something needs to be done, but I don't know how we get past this point without a lot of very tough decisions on both sides. In my post I pointed out some very clear and historical truths that, in my opinion, were being disputed.

LennyR do you have kids? I have kids and grandkids and I know for a fact that if someone came to my house and stole my kids for years so they could brainwash and abuse them I would not ever be able to forgive and move on. How long do you think is an appropriate time before you could forgive someone and move on if they did this to you?

 

[rzrgade]

While I totally agree the residential school act was an ugly period of time , the fact remains that moving forward constantly pandering to these idiotic notions of trying to right past history is futile . It serves no purpose and wil ultimately just cause more racial tensions .
In terms of who was here first , Ian sorry but that is totally irrelevant in today's society....there have been invaders & conqueror 's since the dawn of mankind ! Most of the time the weaker is assimilated or
Removed permanently ( killed). This is just human history...like it or not .

Personally I am tired of paying for perceived wrong doing of my ancestors, be it right or wrong ...it's time to move forward .


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[frock]

LennyR there is something else in your post that I've heard a few times before with very little evidence to back up that point of view. The natives were here for thousands of years previous to the arrival of Europeans. They had a complex system of governance and family that had worked pretty darn well up until the European arrival. They didn't need our help to run things.

 

[LennyR]

Did you read before you posted? My opening line clearly states that I agree things are way out of hand on this issue. For sure something needs to be done, but I don't know how we get past this point without a lot of very tough decisions on both sides. In my post I pointed out some very clear and historical truths that, in my opinion, were being disputed.

LennyR do you have kids? I have kids and grandkids and I know for a fact that if someone came to my house and stole my kids for years so they could brainwash and abuse them I would not ever be able to forgive and move on. How long do you think is an appropriate time before you could forgive someone and move on if they did this to you?

Yep, have kids, grandkids , and lots of friends who are Indians, and i grew up on a reserve , went to a reserve school for first few years of school and have worked and played with Indians my whole life . So yeah , ihave lots of experiences to base my opinions on .
And i can say for sure that if that , horrible for sure would have happened to me and my family , first thing i would try to focus on would be to figure out why the authorities saw a need to do that and how to rectify and assure it doesn't ever happen again. Rather than whine and moan and sit in your ass for a couple generations , and continue to act and do exactly the same things that caused that situation in the first place. And for me what unbelievable is there are still both Indians and non , who still would rather sit and do nothing but bitch about their disadvantages ( for 2 or 3 generations) and devote so much energy to dumba$$ initiatives and ideologys as these, instead of getting their head down and a$$ up and try to cause actual change for the better
But , thankfully for the whiners and poor me 'ers , they've always got a large vocal group of bleeding hearts who only see and talk about how disadvantaged they are and not devote their energy and time to changing things , Cause that would be to hard and someone else should do it for us , as long as they can maintain their heritage ( not go to work or pay taxes) .
Yeah history has been tough on the natives , as it has been on many others , but get over it , get on with it and maybe start expending energy and money ( millions and millions) on what we can do , rather than what we can't change .
I personally live the Indian names of places and sports teams , i think they are great and a trivute in some ways to the natives and their part in history of our nation.

 

[rzrgade]

I think life was not quite as peace full and enjoyable as you think it was , prior to the arrival of the European 's....the fact it it was a struggle to survive with much nomadic tribal war .
If you are putting forth the idea they all lived well and got along / had lots to eat and lived in harmony ?
You are sadly mistaken ..,,


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[frock]

Never said any of what you posted rzrgade, nor do I think it was peaceful or enjoyable. What I did say was that for thousands of years they managed to live and look after this land quite well. That wasn't an accident or luck. For sure it must have been a hard life and every day would have been a "what do I need to get done today to ensure I and my family survive".

No I'm not sadly mistaken, but you are misunderstanding what I'm posting.

 

[rzrgade]

What part of "if" do you not understand?


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[frock]

Yep, have kids, grandkids , and lots of friends who are Indians, and i grew up on a reserve , went to a reserve school for first few years of school and have worked and played with Indians my whole life . So yeah , ihave lots of experiences to base my opinions on .
And i can say for sure that if that , horrible for sure would have happened to me and my family , first thing i would try to focus on would be to figure out why the authorities saw a need to do that and how to rectify and assure it doesn't ever happen again. Rather than whine and moan and sit in your ass for a couple generations , and continue to act and do exactly the same things that caused that situation in the first place. And for me what unbelievable is there are still both Indians and non , who still would rather sit and do nothing but bitch about their disadvantages ( for 2 or 3 generations) and devote so much energy to dumba$$ initiatives and ideologys as these, instead of getting their head down and a$$ up and try to cause actual change for the better
But , thankfully for the whiners and poor me 'ers , they've always got a large vocal group of bleeding hearts who only see and talk about how disadvantaged they are and not devote their energy and time to changing things , Cause that would be to hard and someone else should do it for us , as long as they can maintain their heritage ( not go to work or pay taxes) .
Yeah history has been tough on the natives , as it has been on many others , but get over it , get on with it and maybe start expending energy and money ( millions and millions) on what we can do , rather than what we can't change .
I personally live the Indian names of places and sports teams , i think they are great and a trivute in some ways to the natives and their part in history of our nation.

You and I have a very similar upbringing then LennyR. My early years reflect yours pretty closely. My opinions on how ridiculous this has gotten are also very similar to yours. Where we differ is that I know that there was approximately 150,000 kids taken and put into residential schools. Taking these children was not about rectifying something or that they were unable to raise children properly it was about erasing a culture. Knowing that this was the reason for taking these children there is not the slightest chance in hell that I would be forgiving and moving on to figure out what I've done wrong raising my children.

The majority of the natives that I know are hardworking people that simply want to make a decent living and raise there families both on and off reserve.

The current system will not change until we get a government that is willing to piss off people on both sides. So far that hasn't happened on the scale that it needs to be. Everybody in this country should be working, if able, and paying taxes to support the infrastructure that we all use.

 

[rzrgade]

Back on topic ... Common sense ! More to the point of what offends people , you could say ...
Well , you know what offends me ( actually a lot of Canadians) , our PM handing out billions of $$$$in hard hard earned tax payer $$$, with ZERO accountability!!!
To hell with who who call what teams ,what .... I want to know where the cash is going , why are Chiefs living in multi million $$ mansions , while their own people go without ... Yet our government is not allowed to investigate the finances of the native bands & leaders .. Why ?
The rank & file Joe blow native should be a lot more concerned with this , than the name of a bunch of guys batting a ball around .....


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[frock]

What part of "if" do you not understand?


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Sorry rzr I completely missed the IF, my apologies.

 

[rzrgade]

No problem , I am not directing this at you in particular... More so as a generalization of how we have come to this point of contention today , with much more important things to address...,


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