Wiegele Family is OUT

[greenthumb]

Alterra is owned by KSL Capital and is one of the biggest customers of the company I work for. They're huge.
I have dealt directly with executives and pretty familiar with the way they do business.
They treat their assets strictly as a financial investment. No heart or soul; it's all about the money. They generally have the reputation of purchasing resorts and pissing off the locals. I don't think they will have an opinion on sledders or even be aware we exist unless there is effect on their bottom line.

 

[kimrick]

Not fully true, some tenures do grant their holders exclusive rights to an area. Its not the norm but they are out there and its up to us to know.

Almost never believe anything a tenure holder a tells you (I'm not broad stroking them all bad but the bad ones know who they are). They will post signs with inaccurate or misleading information (usually a "closure" notice) in an attempt to keep all other users out of that area.

If you think Wiggles will be better under a bigger name you better think again. Its a constant struggle with this parent company moving signs or incorrectly signing areas to expand territory. They've tried to kick us out of open areas after the tenure expired. I also have no issues with other user groups or sharing terrain and will wait until the closures are over - theres lots of open stuff to hit. Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect. Try to land on top of my sled and cut my head off again and you're going to find out what happens when a helmet is thrown into your rotor blades.

Chatter is a great example of how both groups can co-exist. However, lots of these other operators are out there for the sole purpose of profiteering from total domination of the landscape and they will stop at nothing to keep you out.

Cannot find exclusive areas(solely) in regs where no-one else can use.? Got a link please?
Would like to be current for information. Thank you.

Crown land uses

Find out more about different Crown land uses and related application processes. Come to this page to find links to the rest of the crown land uses content.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Crown Land Tenure

The Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations administers the Land Act and is responsible for the sale, lease and license of Crown lands throughout British Columbia. Tenure for the use of provincial Crown land for highway operations and construction, including the disposition of...

www2.gov.bc.ca

Land use - recreation activities and adventure guiding

Adventure tourism, also known as nature-based tourism or backcountry commercial recreation, involves operators offering services on provincial Crown land. Services to persons for compensation or reward.

www2.gov.bc.ca

 

[crashidy]

There are motorized closures ..out by silent pass, some near Holy grails west of blue River. Section 58 closures they are called

 

[kimrick]

There are motorized closures ..out by silent pass, some near Holy grails west of blue River. Section 58 closures they are called

Thank you , I am fully aware of motorized closures, but not of the "Exclusive"" areas.
Just looking for a reference so I can read thru it.
Thanks in advance, as I cannot find any reference in the three regs I previously provided.
Section 58 can be referenced here:

Recreation Orders

Recreation Orders restrict or prohibit recreation uses on Crown land.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Protection of recreation and range resources on Crown land​

58 (1)If the minister determines that it is necessary to protect a recreation or range resource or to manage public recreation use on Crown land, he or she by order may restrict or prohibit

(a)a non-recreational use of

(i)any of the following established under the Forest Practices Code of British Columbia Act for recreation:

(A)a resource management zone;

(B)a landscape unit;

(C)a sensitive area, or

(ii)any of the following that is on Crown land:

(A)an interpretive forest site;

(B)a recreation site or recreation trail,

except any non-recreational use permitted under the Coal Act, the Mineral Tenure Act or the Oil and Gas Activities Act, or

(b)a recreational use anywhere on Crown land, except a use that is specifically permitted under another enactment.

(2)The minister may make different orders under subsection (1) for different uses and locations.

(3)The minister must post a notice of an order under subsection (1) in the area to which the order applies.

(4)Without lawful authority, a person must not remove, alter, destroy or deface a notice posted under subsection (3).

 

[kimrick]

Last time I knew it was 2 whole dollars per day per client plus an annual fee. Sled tour companies were paying 10 per client day.

• For Extensive Use (guiding) Areas: rent is calculated as the total Client Day fee for the period, or $125, whichever is greater (Client Day fees are $6 mechanized guiding, $4 mechanized ski guiding and $1 non-mechanized); and
• For Intensive Use Sites: rent for temporary Improvements is calculated as $100 for each Intensive Use Site
• Minimum rent for Special Events Permit (Temporary Licence) is $125

 

[crashidy]

Thank you , I am fully aware of motorized closures, but not of the "Exclusive"" areas.
Just looking for a reference so I can read thru it.
Thanks in advance, as I cannot find any reference in the three regs I previously provided.
Section 58 can be referenced here:

Recreation Orders

Recreation Orders restrict or prohibit recreation uses on Crown land.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Protection of recreation and range resources on Crown land​

58 (1)If the minister determines that it is necessary to protect a recreation or range resource or to manage public recreation use on Crown land, he or she by order may restrict or prohibit

(a)a non-recreational use of

(i)any of the following established under the Forest Practices Code of British Columbia Act for recreation:

(A)a resource management zone;

(B)a landscape unit;

(C)a sensitive area, or

(ii)any of the following that is on Crown land:

(A)an interpretive forest site;

(B)a recreation site or recreation trail,

except any non-recreational use permitted under the Coal Act, the Mineral Tenure Act or the Oil and Gas Activities Act, or

(b)a recreational use anywhere on Crown land, except a use that is specifically permitted under another enactment.

(2)The minister may make different orders under subsection (1) for different uses and locations.

(3)The minister must post a notice of an order under subsection (1) in the area to which the order applies.

(4)Without lawful authority, a person must not remove, alter, destroy or deface a notice posted under subsection (3).

I think I am not fully understanding what you are asking. I too have tried to stay in the regs and really had a hard time and still do understanding the section 58 rules . What are exclusive areas? Meaning no foot traffic or access at all? I am not truly aware of any granted that status

 

[kimrick]

I think I am not fully understanding what you are asking. I too have tried to stay in the regs and really had a hard time and still do understanding the section 58 rules . What are exclusive areas? Meaning no foot traffic or access at all? I am not truly aware of any granted that status

Thank you. No problem.
Just thought you had a different reference!...
The regs are made to be convoluted, so the average person has a hard time.
I hope the new owners are not of the same stature like the late Mr, Wiegele was...

 

[Cableguy]

prob gonna be worse
but at the end of the day its crown land
belongs to us all

 

[sledn]

There are motorized closures ..out by silent pass, some near Holy grails west of blue River. Section 58 closures they are called

So no jet fuel burning motorized helicopters allowed?

 

[crashidy]

So no jet fuel burning motorized helicopters allowed?

They are the ones who applied to have section 58 closures! Doesn't apply to their heli op tenure

 

[MP Kid]

They are the ones who applied to have section 58 closures! Doesn't apply to their heli op tenure

How hypocritical….

But I wouldn’t expect anything less from that crowd…

 

[RGM]

How hypocritical….

But I wouldn’t expect anything less from that crowd…

Lucky my turbo self identifies as a heli

 

[LID]

So are CMH going to buy out Chatter or did the other owners buy the guy out?

 

[iceman5689]

They had a good operation. Sure they had some involvement in the community but not enough for the money that went through yearly. Be nice if the new owner gives back to blue a little more. And the sled relationship expands.
I’ve stayed there during Covid shutdown and not sure what the hype was for staying at the compound. Outdated old 80’s cabins. I’ve also stayed at chatter many yrs. I’d take there experience any day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Modman]

Cannot find exclusive areas(solely) in regs where no-one else can use.? Got a link please?
Would like to be current for information. Thank you.

Crown land uses

Find out more about different Crown land uses and related application processes. Come to this page to find links to the rest of the crown land uses content.

www2.gov.bc.ca

Crown Land Tenure

The Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations administers the Land Act and is responsible for the sale, lease and license of Crown lands throughout British Columbia. Tenure for the use of provincial Crown land for highway operations and construction, including the disposition of...

www2.gov.bc.ca

Land use - recreation activities and adventure guiding

Adventure tourism, also known as nature-based tourism or backcountry commercial recreation, involves operators offering services on provincial Crown land. Services to persons for compensation or reward.

www2.gov.bc.ca

They need to obtain an "order in council" (OIC) which means it typically needs DM (deputy minister) or Assistant DM approval, and must go public and have notification etc etc. Lots of times they are put through on the down low as it means a company is restricting access to crown land. SSC's went through a number of years ago when they obtained the OIC.

"Our season begins December 1 and concludes April 16th. Public access restrictions are in force during this time and the signs on Meadow Mountain Forest Service Road help direct snowmobilers and other backcountry enthusiasts to “The Meadows” area which is open to the public. All other areas within our tenure are for the exclusive use of Selkirk Snowcat Skiing. We appreciate your cooperation."

AlpX also claims they have an exclusive tenure, but I'm not sure if that means in area or use. There are others (All Seasons Resorts had one) that I have seen over the years, I'd have to search the archives to find the info and I just don't have the time to sift through Gator for this. If you are interested in the details of a tenure then once you know the Tenure Document Number you can call Front Counter for the details. I think you can also search on LTSA.

 

[Cableguy]

there is a few operations that place similar signs on there boundaries
but very few truly have exclusive access they hope the signs will keep the majority out

 

[RGM]

there is a few operations that place similar signs on there boundaries
but very few truly have exclusive access they hope the signs will keep the majority out

Good thing I have a hard time reading without my glasses

 

[MP Kid]

I’d be interested to hear from someone in the know about tenure vs closures in the greater Golden area…?
Maybe I’ll start a new thread..?