J_E_SUMMIT
RIP, Fallen Sledder
I know exactly what you mean!
Why 2 snowmobile Federations in BC??
- Thread starter EasternCanadanewbie
- Start date
I know exactly what you mean!
Erin H
Active member
Hi. Let me weigh in on this.
The racing division of the BCSF has been defunct for years. Bottom line, no volunteers at the Provincial level to administer it so clubs have had to do it on their own.
Not sure how else to answer this question for you but if you have more detail, please let me know and I'd be happy to answer.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice President
J_E_SUMMIT
RIP, Fallen Sledder
One of the reason's that the ABC is so strong is that the BCSF wouldn't help most clubs with land use or any other government related issues. The government might go to the BCSF, but all the BCSF does is pass the buck down to the local club's volunteer executives. I guess the paid employees of the BCSF are too busy holding their chairs down too actually help?
Erin H
Active member
When the government is looking into provincial issue Ex. Caribou do they look at BCSF or ABC for direction? Is the BCSF the reconized rep for snowmobilers in BC?
Seems that the province would be better represented by 1 group.
Now the BIG QUESTION. What would be needed to mix them together?? Sit down talk or a referee? Gun fight or just a good bar fight??Just kidding
For 45 years the BCSF has been the recognized Provincial representative for snowmobiling in BC. The BCSF is recognized at the National level (CCSO), International Snwomobile Manufacturers Association (ISMA) as well as the International Association of Snowmobile Administrators (IASA) and International Snowmobile Council (ISC).
As for the Caribou issue, the BCSF and the clubs involved led the representation in the process whereas ABC had very little to do with this process.
As far as mixing us together, the Exec. group of ABC were once Directors of the BCSF. However, more than 4 years ago, a group decided they did not like the 'majority rules' process of the BCSF and decided to leave. Major decisions and directions of the BCSF are made by club votes.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice President
Erin H
Active member
No, the Canadian Council of Snowmobile Organizations only recognize the BCSF. That won't change!!
If you have any further questions about the role of the BCSF, feel free to contact me directly.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice President
Erin H
Active member
Hi Fernie...thought I would chime in on your first comment in regards to recognizing the BCSF trail permit and club membership.
A BCSF club membership has an attached season's pass and has been called a 'snowmobile permit' forever. It allows associated BCSF clubs to ride at other BCSF trails at a reduced daily rate (discount).
As I stated earlier, the BCSF is made up of member clubs and their needs come first. However, we do have a Provincial office and it is an integral part of our organization. There is no money for our Provincial snowmobile organization(s) from the Government. Both organizations survive on membership dues and corporate sponsorship.
For over 30 years the BCSF has lobbied Gov't for a 'user pay' system to offset club expenses in regards to grooming and other related costs. The BCSF does at least 1-2 presentations in front of Ministers on a yearly basis.
BCSF initiates meetings regularly with Ministers and higher level staff to discuss snowmobile related issues for not only our member clubs but for all snowmobilers in British Columbia.
Hope that helps. Feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice President
moyiesledhead
Active VIP Member
I promised myself I'd stay out of this, but that statement was just too far over the edge, and I actually resent it. All I can say is; BULLSHITE! As the past land use coordinator for one of the BC clubs very heavily involved in Caribou issues I can personally say the BCSF, and particularly Les Auston (the one you just took the shot at!) were always there when we needed them. Les spends countless hours lobbying behind the scenes with government and fighting for YOUR access. Maybe he should be more vocal publicly so sledders like you can see what he's doing, but that's not the way he operates and wouldn't achieve some of the results most of us don't even know about. He was the only one that wayed in on snowmobilers behalf when areas started getting lost around Trout Lake.....and they didn't even have a club at the time, much less a BCSF club! And before anyone spouts off again about having a payed representative versus ABC's volunteers.....no volunteer could afford to put in the time and effort for free that Les has! While we're at it....we managed to keep all roads and cutblocks, and most of our high quality basins open on the east side of the Purcell mountain range. ABC gave away everything but two powerline rights of way and a couple of lakes on the west side, without even consulting us on what areas we use. Thank you very much for nothing ABC!
Damn! I didn't want to go there! Sorry Erin, I couldn't be as diplomatic as you.
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Erin H
Active member
Hi Curtis.
Clearly the programs and benefits offered by the BCSF can not be handled by VOLUNTEERS. Whereas the minimal prorgrams and benefits of ABC can easily be handled by their dedicated volunteers. I don't question your opinion on how good the ABC organization is, however, the 'untruths' currently being communicated out there about the BCSF are based on personal agendas and are clearly dividing the snowmobile community.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice President
Erin H
Active member
Very good question!! Best one I've seen yet...let me see if I can answer it for you.
The Benefits & Programs developed over the years by the BCSF members far exceed any of the other recreational motorized organizations. I encourage you to visit our Federation website at BC Snowmobile Federation – The Home of BC’s Sled Community – British Columbia, Canada and see for yourself.
The latest program that hasn't been listed yet but is being promoted is our new relationship with Amsoil. 20-25% discount on all Amsoil related products. Check it out. AMSOIL Oil and AMSOIL Filter Products. Your One Stop Shop for AMSOIL / AMZOIL
'Rumours' are for school grounds and adults should base their comments on facts.
If you have any futher questions, feel free to contact me.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - Vice-President
Depsnolvr
Active VIP Member
Appreciated Erin as long as you are not suggesting that some of the untruths came from my part, as I have tried my best to stay out of this discussion as hard as it may be and its getting much harder. I am not a Director with ABC, just a member club and will not comment any further on their behalf as I do not have consent.
J_E_SUMMIT
RIP, Fallen Sledder
I promised myself I'd stay out of this, but that statement was just too far over the edge, and I actually resent it. All I can say is; BULLSHITE! As the past land use coordinator for one of the BC clubs very heavily involved in Caribou issues I can personally say the BCSF, and particularly Les Auston (the one you just took the shot at!) were always there when we needed them. Les spends countless hours lobbying behind the scenes with government and fighting for YOUR access. Maybe he should be more vocal publicly so sledders like you can see what he's doing, but that's not the way he operates and wouldn't achieve some of the results most of us don't even know about. He was the only one that wayed in on snowmobilers behalf when areas started getting lost around Trout Lake.....and they didn't even have a club at the time, much less a BCSF club! And before anyone spouts off again about having a payed representative versus ABC's volunteers.....no volunteer could afford to put in the time and effort for free that Les has! While we're at it....we managed to keep all roads and cutblocks, and most of our high quality basins open on the east side of the Purcell mountain range. ABC gave away everything but two powerline rights of way and a couple of lakes on the west side, without even consulting us on what areas we use. Thank you very much for nothing ABC!
Damn! I didn't want to go there! Sorry Erin, I couldn't be as diplomatic as you.
I am sorry that you took it that way, but I have been an active member of my local club since before I had my drivers license and I have personally seen the BCSF ignore land use issues in my area, even when they have been near their own head office. Not too mention the fact that there is a paid BCSF representitive in my hometown, even though the club no longer is a member.
I can't say anything about what ABC has done outside my area because my involment has been through only one local club, but I can say that the SSA has bennifited greatly from the change.
Yes, I know I should be more profesional then this, but having to put up with BCSF backstabbing has left a sour taste in my mouth and it was time to vent.
Thumper-darryl
Active member
I need to add that from first hand knowledge BCSF has been active in dealing with Government issues, as well as getting NTC funding for snowmobile trails in B.C.
I read comments about insurance, and people must be careful about insurance of this nature. coverage for clubs will vary, but if you compare Apples to Apples the cost for insurance for clubs will be the same. At the ASA we do the comparisons every year to make sure we have the correct insurance for both the ASA and our clubs. You can be sure the insurance offered by the two associations is NOT the same. Cheap is usually not the best, for a reason.
I read comments about insurance, and people must be careful about insurance of this nature. coverage for clubs will vary, but if you compare Apples to Apples the cost for insurance for clubs will be the same. At the ASA we do the comparisons every year to make sure we have the correct insurance for both the ASA and our clubs. You can be sure the insurance offered by the two associations is NOT the same. Cheap is usually not the best, for a reason.
Erin H
Active member
I promised myself I'd stay out of this, but that statement was just too far over the edge, and I actually resent it. All I can say is; BULLSHITE! As the past land use coordinator for one of the BC clubs very heavily involved in Caribou issues I can personally say the BCSF, and particularly Les Auston (the one you just took the shot at!) were always there when we needed them. Les spends countless hours lobbying behind the scenes with government and fighting for YOUR access. Maybe he should be more vocal publicly so sledders like you can see what he's doing, but that's not the way he operates and wouldn't achieve some of the results most of us don't even know about. He was the only one that wayed in on snowmobilers behalf when areas started getting lost around Trout Lake.....and they didn't even have a club at the time, much less a BCSF club! And before anyone spouts off again about having a payed representative versus ABC's volunteers.....no volunteer could afford to put in the time and effort for free that Les has! While we're at it....we managed to keep all roads and cutblocks, and most of our high quality basins open on the east side of the Purcell mountain range. ABC gave away everything but two powerline rights of way and a couple of lakes on the west side, without even consulting us on what areas we use. Thank you very much for nothing ABC!
Damn! I didn't want to go there! Sorry Erin, I couldn't be as diplomatic as you.
Well said!!
I'll jump in on this again with this latest letter from the Revelstoke club.
Hopefully, this loads properly.
Regards,
Erin Hart
BCSF - V.P
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Ok is it fair to say its a regional thing ABC for Valemount, McBride, Blue River and BCSF for Revy, Sicamouse, Salmon Arm ? If thats what it is seems kinda fawked up creating confusion and questions are not the way to further the sport. Like I said before loose the ego's and the hurt feelers and move forward to benefit the sport not just your club and your federation.
Before you accuse people of not knowing what they're talking about, you should realize I that I chose my words very carefully while keeping my tongue firmly in cheek, and I'm continuing to do so. I am from Houston, I know a lot more people there than you would, and I'm well aware of the fact that Les & friends are quite intertwined with the BCSF. Also, I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone from Burns Lake, though I've heard good things about the club here, nor do I have a beef with the BCSF itself. While I've probably said too much, I'll point out that I'm not being strictly malicious, but subtle in my irony.
Think about it. Yeah.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
Some interesting facts
In 2006, there were 91,670 new snowmobiles sold in the U.S., and 42,953 new snowmobiles sold in Canada. The average suggested retail price of a new snowmobile sold in North America in 2006 was $8,269.00.
The number of Snowmobile Dealers:
United States - 1815
Canada - 932
Scandinavia - 409
There are approximately 2.6 million registered snowmobiles in the world.
United States - 1.69 million
Canada - 601,000
Scandinavia - 318,000
Worldwide snowmobile sales:
2006 - 164,860
The Economic Impact of Snowmobiling:
United States - $21 billion annually
Canada - $6 billion annually
Scandinavia - $1.6 billion annually
Over 85,000 fulltime jobs are generated by the snowmobile industry in North America. Those jobs are involved in manufacturing, dealerships and tourism related businesses.
The average age of a snowmobile owner is 41 years old.
The average annual household income for snowmobilers is $70,000.
The average snowmobiler rides their snowmobile 990 miles per year.
The average snowmobiler spends $4,000 each year on snowmobile-related recreation, tourism and products.
75% of snowmobile owners are married. The average snowmobile family has 0.8 children living in the home with them.
65% of the snowmobilers usually trailer their snowmobiles to go ride. 35% either snowmobile from their primary residence or have a vacation home where they keep and use their snowmobiles.
Approximately 80% of snowmobilers use their snowmobile for trail riding and touring in marked and groomed trails. 20% of snowmobilers use their snowmobile for work and ice fishing.
Snowmobilers spend on the average 7.2 nights per snowmobile season in a motel/resort room while snowmobiling.
Snowmobilers are caring neighbors; they raised over $3 million for charity during the 2005/2006 season.
Approximately 17% of all snowmobilers are part of the Senior Circuit - 60 years or older and 37% of all snowmobilers are 50 years or older.
There are over 225,000 miles of groomed and marked snowmobile trails in North America that have been developed by volunteer clubs working with local government and private land owners.
There are over 3000 snowmobile clubs worldwide, involved in trail grooming and charity fund raising and family activities.
There are 40 registered non-profit associations representing snowmobilers in the U.S., Canada and Scandinavia.
Snowmobiling is great exercise that brings people outdoors to interact with nature and each other. It is an invigorating sport that is great for stress release and good mental health.
Snowmobiling is a great family sport. It is an activity that keeps parents and kids together. Historically individuals who snowmobile at a young age continue to snowmobile with their parents and continue in the sport throughout their lives, sharing great experiences as a family. In many winter regions, snowmobiling is simply the main form of winter outdoor recreation and in some cases the main method of transportation available.
The use of snowmobiles in National Parks is controlled, organized and regulated by Federal Law Enforcement. The snowmobiling occurs on roads groomed and marked for snowmobiling, the same roadways used by recreational vehicles, cars, trucks and busses. Snowmobiles are NOT used as off-road vehicles in National Parks such as Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain and Grand Teton.
On US National Forest Land, most of the trails used by snowmobiles are on groomed roads used by summer recreationists. There are also secondary and seasonal roads within the forests used by snowmobilers. These roads are groomed and marked by volunteers who work closely with the local US Forest Service staff in maintaining and managing those areas.
:d
In 2006, there were 91,670 new snowmobiles sold in the U.S., and 42,953 new snowmobiles sold in Canada. The average suggested retail price of a new snowmobile sold in North America in 2006 was $8,269.00.
The number of Snowmobile Dealers:
United States - 1815
Canada - 932
Scandinavia - 409
There are approximately 2.6 million registered snowmobiles in the world.
United States - 1.69 million
Canada - 601,000
Scandinavia - 318,000
Worldwide snowmobile sales:
2006 - 164,860
The Economic Impact of Snowmobiling:
United States - $21 billion annually
Canada - $6 billion annually
Scandinavia - $1.6 billion annually
Over 85,000 fulltime jobs are generated by the snowmobile industry in North America. Those jobs are involved in manufacturing, dealerships and tourism related businesses.
The average age of a snowmobile owner is 41 years old.
The average annual household income for snowmobilers is $70,000.
The average snowmobiler rides their snowmobile 990 miles per year.
The average snowmobiler spends $4,000 each year on snowmobile-related recreation, tourism and products.
75% of snowmobile owners are married. The average snowmobile family has 0.8 children living in the home with them.
65% of the snowmobilers usually trailer their snowmobiles to go ride. 35% either snowmobile from their primary residence or have a vacation home where they keep and use their snowmobiles.
Approximately 80% of snowmobilers use their snowmobile for trail riding and touring in marked and groomed trails. 20% of snowmobilers use their snowmobile for work and ice fishing.
Snowmobilers spend on the average 7.2 nights per snowmobile season in a motel/resort room while snowmobiling.
Snowmobilers are caring neighbors; they raised over $3 million for charity during the 2005/2006 season.
Approximately 17% of all snowmobilers are part of the Senior Circuit - 60 years or older and 37% of all snowmobilers are 50 years or older.
There are over 225,000 miles of groomed and marked snowmobile trails in North America that have been developed by volunteer clubs working with local government and private land owners.
There are over 3000 snowmobile clubs worldwide, involved in trail grooming and charity fund raising and family activities.
There are 40 registered non-profit associations representing snowmobilers in the U.S., Canada and Scandinavia.
Snowmobiling is great exercise that brings people outdoors to interact with nature and each other. It is an invigorating sport that is great for stress release and good mental health.
Snowmobiling is a great family sport. It is an activity that keeps parents and kids together. Historically individuals who snowmobile at a young age continue to snowmobile with their parents and continue in the sport throughout their lives, sharing great experiences as a family. In many winter regions, snowmobiling is simply the main form of winter outdoor recreation and in some cases the main method of transportation available.
The use of snowmobiles in National Parks is controlled, organized and regulated by Federal Law Enforcement. The snowmobiling occurs on roads groomed and marked for snowmobiling, the same roadways used by recreational vehicles, cars, trucks and busses. Snowmobiles are NOT used as off-road vehicles in National Parks such as Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain and Grand Teton.
On US National Forest Land, most of the trails used by snowmobiles are on groomed roads used by summer recreationists. There are also secondary and seasonal roads within the forests used by snowmobilers. These roads are groomed and marked by volunteers who work closely with the local US Forest Service staff in maintaining and managing those areas.
:d
lexy
Active VIP Member
Ok is it fair to say its a regional thing ABC for Valemount, McBride, Blue River and BCSF for Revy, Sicamouse, Salmon Arm ? If thats what it is seems kinda fawked up creating confusion and questions are not the way to further the sport. Like I said before loose the ego's and the hurt feelers and move forward to benefit the sport not just your club and your federation.
Sicamous is now ABSsnow also......
If you want to see what clubs are on ABCsnow go to their website....you will be quite suprised
I can't see why we can't have two recognizable organizations. I can tell you right now, Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Heli-skiiers, and all the "enemies" of our sport aren't allied into one stupid super group.
Two clubs in one region wouldn't happen, so it's not like there is an overlap. Maybe if those ministers were pestered by twice as many different people with the same concerns, it'd look like there was more of us?
Also, if you want, you could tie this into my last post. But I won't.
Two clubs in one region wouldn't happen, so it's not like there is an overlap. Maybe if those ministers were pestered by twice as many different people with the same concerns, it'd look like there was more of us?
Also, if you want, you could tie this into my last post. But I won't.
OOC ZigZag
Active VIP Member
I can't see why we can't have two recognizable organizations. I can tell you right now, Greenpeace, Sierra Club, Heli-skiiers, and all the "enemies" of our sport aren't allied into one stupid super group.
Two clubs in one region wouldn't happen, so it's not like there is an overlap. Maybe if those ministers were pestered by twice as many different people with the same concerns, it'd look like there was more of us?
Also, if you want, you could tie this into my last post. But I won't.
Yeah your prob right 2 million riders that represent 27 billion dollars a year aren't much of a collective voice.:d
If the politicians only hear one voice, does it matter if 1,999,999 others are screaming too?
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