What about hydrogen and FCEVs?

Summitric

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April 13, 2022 by Adam Malik

What about hydrogen and FCEVs?​

Hydrogen-refuelling-FCEV-Depositphotos_377425792_L-1024x682.jpg


Much attention has been paid to battery electric vehicles. But what about fuel cell electric vehicles?

A recent paper in Brink, a global business platform, compared the viability of BEVs to FCEVs. The author, Mohammed Shafi, researcher at research support service provider PreScouter, pointed to an intelligence brief comparing the two options.

FCEVs are electric vehicles but are powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. Electricity is produced by the electrochemical reactions between hydrogen and oxygen pumped into a vehicle’s hydrogen tanks. Pure, distilled water is produced as a byproduct.

Right now, however, there is little infrastructure in place to support fuel cell technology for vehicles. With more and more charging stations announced by federal agencies, BEVs are a more appealing option.

“However, this could change within the next five to 10 years as investments in hydrogen production and infrastructure increase, potentially pushing FCEVs to outperform BEVs in some segments and become the more sustainable alternative,” Shafi argued.

There is one clear advantage to FCEVs. These vehicles rely on energy stored in the vehicle’s fuel cells. So as long as fuel is available to power the fuel cell, it can generate energy. That means ‘refuelling’ an FCEV can take a matter of minutes. A BEV can take hours to recharge. This has been a major sticking point to wooing the typical consumer over from an internal combustion engine to a BEV.

However, it can be more expensive to refuel an FCEV compared to recharging a BEV, Shafi noted.

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The hydrogen-powered Toyota Mirai at the 2019 Canadian International Auto Show.
When it comes to environmental concerns, FCEVs also come out ahead, he observed as fuel cells can be a 100 per cent renewable and environmentally friendly system.

“In the absence of adequate recycling systems, the lithium-ion batteries used in BEVs are expected to cause a serious environmental crisis when they reach the end of their useful lives,” he wrote.

“Overall, FCEVs are cleaner than BEVs and internal combustion vehicles, with additional room for improvement as hydrogen generation and distribution advances. FCEV production is also cleaner than BEV production due to fewer raw material requirements compared to BEV mineral mining and the consumption of heavy metals such as lithium and cobalt. FCEVs are also easier (and cheaper) to recycle than BEVs.”

But for all this good, there are downsides, Shafi noted. Notably, compressed hydrogen tanks are bulky.

“This is a flaw in the current generation of electric cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells. Hydrogen metal or non-metal hydrides could be used in the future as a replacement for heavy hydrogen tanks. This is just beginning to take shape, with hydrogen evaporation remaining a key technical problem to overcome,” he wrote.

FCEVs have been primarily been deployed as light-duty passenger cars, but mostly in Korea, the United States and Japan.

But the lack of refuelling stations stands in the way of FCEVs gaining popularity. “Thus, the adoption of fuel cell vehicles should be complemented with enabling infrastructure,” Shafi said, adding that there fewer than 500 hydrogen refuelling stations operating globally at the end of 2021.

“Battery and fuel cell technologies will coexist in the future because of their obvious similarities, with BEVs being more appropriate for short-range and small vehicles, and FCEVs the better choice for medium-to-large and long-range vehicles,” he added.
 
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Summitric

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Scientists are still working on cold fusion... consider water is H2O.... 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. I have read about
research on vehicles running on water(small cold fusion reactor breaks down water into hydrogen and oxygen), but
apparently lots of problems still. I have a bud that works at Alberta Research Council(Alberta Innovates), and they have
over 100 scientists working on different projects, but several working on cold fusion. I still believe the future will be cold
fusion...
 

NoBrakes!

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I know some oil companies in Edmonton are working with a hydrogen transit bus company.

What happened to tech from the Ballard Power cell they used in Vancouver buses in the 90s?
 

lilduke

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My Aunt worked for corrections Canada and had a hydrogen powered government vehicle.

The vehicle wound up poisoning her some how. Got sick really from it.

That was a long time ago, so im sure they have some better stuff now.

Edit: now that i think about it, might have been compressed natural gas powered. It was something whacky, i forget.
 
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S.W.A.T.

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But I mean the tech from Ballard is 30 years old now, and we don’t hear much
Vancouver has many hydrogen city busses. They were supposed to build the "hydrogen hwy" from bc to California but I'm not sure how far that got. At one point ford did own the rights to the Ballard fuel cell and did produce some automobiles but again not sure on the details. There is a guy in central Alberta that has some wells and is producing hydrogen
 

S.W.A.T.

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S.W.A.T.

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It's about efficiency. Hydrogen requires 2-2.5 times as much initial energy to drive the same distance in an equivalent vehicle.
Moving and processing 500,000 tonnes of earth and rock to make a single battery seems pretty inefficient. Hydrogen production isn't "green" either but the end product is clean water and not mass amounts of non recyclable materials. I am a fan of electric vehicles and they have their purposes but both options should be able to coexist much like diesel and propane vehicles.
 

jhurkot

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Moving and processing 500,000 tonnes of earth and rock to make a single battery seems pretty inefficient. Hydrogen production isn't "green" either but the end product is clean water and not mass amounts of non recyclable materials. I am a fan of electric vehicles and they have their purposes but both options should be able to coexist much like diesel and propane vehicles.
500,000 tonnes? Are you sure about that? Battery cost at the pack level is about ~$100-125 USD/kWh. For easy math lets just say a 100 kWh battery pack costs $15,000 USD. Do you think that the cost of the materials and energy to build this $15K battery pack are more than $15K?
 

ABMax24

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My suggestion is people need to do their own research and quit taking headlines, and even worse, memes as facts. Also that meme said pounds, not tonnes.

For example I have burned 27,000 liters of fuel in the life of my pickup over 8 years. According to the Alberta governments own numbers 2 tonnes of "earth" is moved to extract every barrel of oil from the oil sands, plus 2-4 barrels of water to process that sand. Assuming 100% of that barrel of oil makes Diesel, which it doesn't, but that's 373,584 pounds of earth mined to produce that fuel. Now assuming the lesser number of water per barrel, that's an additional 54,000 liters of water required to extract that oil.

I haven't yet seen anyone creating memes about the oil sands to instill public anger like this, especially considering it is mining a fuel, whose use is singular, where an EV battery can be recycled and much of the material be used more than once. Maybe the EV memes have another agenda behind them?
 
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LennyR

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My suggestion is people need to do their own research and quit taking headlines, and even worse, memes as facts. Also that meme said pounds, not tonnes.

For example I have burned 27,000 liters of fuel in the life of my pickup over 8 years. According to the Alberta governments own numbers 2 tonnes of "earth" is moved to extract every barrel of oil from the oil sands, plus 2-4 barrels of water to process that sand. Assuming 100% of that barrel of oil makes Diesel, which it doesn't, but that's 373,584 pounds of earth mined to produce that fuel. Now assuming the lesser number of water per barrel, that's an additional 54,000 liters of water required to extract that oil.

I haven't yet seen anyone creating memes about the oil sands to instill public anger like this, especially considering it is mining a fuel, whose use is singular, where an EV battery can be recycled and much of the material be used more than once. Maybe the EV memes have another agenda behind them?
LOL. Yeah maybe the fossil fuel industry is guilty of misleading or manipulating facts and data in a
n attempt to create a perception that they are a cleaner energy source than the E industry. Who would do something like that ? LOL . LOL.
 
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