Trojan Batteries

[nast70]

Year before last (fall '17) i changed to 2 6v Trojan batteries. there were a couple threads here raving about them. I pulled the trigger looking forward to long lasting power and minimal genny run time. The balance of that season I was quite happy with them. Last season they began to disappoint me. The last straw was a week long hunting trip in September. They wouldn't work through the night, we had to run the genny. It wasn't really cold either.
I can charge them fine out of the trailer with a battery charger. But when in the trailer and on shore power (or genny running) they charge super slow. I just dropped them off to get them fully tested and see if they are defective in any way. If they aren't, I need to look at the trailer. I really don't want to run the genny with a battery charger, that kinda defeats the purpose of having long run deep cycle batteries. I don't want to invest $1000 in a solar system, we won't have this trailer for much longer. The guy at the battery store didn't have too many suggestions except to buy their charger.
Anyone else have any suggestions? Different charger/inverter in the trailer? The trailer is 2004. Not sure if the inverters wear out, or if they are not optimized for a pair of 6v batteries. My understanding when I researched and bought them is they plug and play.

 

[Caper11]

If your charger is not a progressive charge unit, it will destroy batteries in a hurry.

 

[nast70]

If your charger is not a progressive charge unit, it will destroy batteries in a hurry.

Never hear of that before in any converstaion about 6v batteries. How can i tell?

 

[LBZ]

Depends what kind of battery it is. If it’s just a regular flooded lead/acid battery any charger will work fine. I’ve been using these for years with a charger that is no less than 30 y/o.

AGM, Gel and lithium can be a little more picky though.

 

[Caper11]

Never hear of that before in any converstaion about 6v batteries. How can i tell?

See what the charge voltage is. This happened to a guy I know. His charger was not a progressive charger, it was always charging over 14v and was having battery problems, it ruined his new batteries within a year.

 

[nast70]

See what the charge voltage is. This happened to a guy I know. His charger was not a progressive charger, it was always charging over 14v and was having battery problems, it ruined his new batteries with.

I use a CT smart charger when they are out of the trailer. Don't know if the trailer inverter is helping or harming them. We will see what happens when they get the results back to me.

 

[52weekbreak]

I did the same and they (2 6V Trojans) seem to work fine. I would check your charger in your trailer.

 

[catalac]

I froze a set once bad and that killed them, have had 3 sets for sled trailers most recent 4 years will run 35000 btu rv heater for 3 days. Maybe you got a bad set. I did learn on second set that you need a proper charger that will push a charge through them.

 

[DRD]

https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/charge-wizard/

Probably 8 yrs on my Trojans, getting weak now and will be replaced. Have a good inverter with smart charger and leave it plugged in all the time.

 

[scesfiremedic]

I bought a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger (came with Wizard pendant), I too have two Trojan batteries and have never had issues with my batteries since installing it. The stuff the trailers come with to charge and maintain your batteries are crap, as they tend to overcharge. I bought mine through

From Trojans website:
Most deep-cycle applications have some sort of charging system already installed for battery charging (e.g. solar panels, inverter, golf car charger, alternator, etc.). However, there are still systems with deep-cycle batteries where an individual charger must be selected. The following will help in making a proper selection.
There are many types of chargers available today. They are usually rated by their start rate, the rate in amperes that the charger will supply at the beginning of the charge cycle. When selecting a charger, the charge rate should be between 10% and 13% of the battery’s 20-hour AH capacity. For example, a battery with a 20-hour capacity rating of 225 AH will use a charger rated between approximately 23 and 30 amps (for multiple battery charging use the AH rating of the entire bank). Chargers with lower ratings can be used but the charging time will be increased.
Trojan recommends using a 3-stage charger. Also called “automatic”, “smart” or “IEI” chargers, which prolong battery life with their programmed charging profile. These chargers usually have three distinct charging stages: bulk, acceptance, and float.

 

[doorfx]

This^^^^^^

 

[takethebounce]

Battery charging, especially for deep cycles is not what it was 20 years ago. Many onboard charger/inverters are 2 stage and as mentioned do not satisfy the manufacturers charging recommendations. I use Crown 6v's. At the time they were near half the price of Trojans and had a good reputation. Now they are almost as costly when I last checked, but regardless I follow Crown's charging recommendations and I have never been left without power though I use a solar set up that is programmable and temperature compensated.

The reason for 3 and 4 stage chargers is to have the ability to replace the lost amp hours and use volts to push amps into the battery at different voltage and duration so the battery can absorb and become fully charged. Some onboard chargers never achieve more than %80 full because of the lack of voltage and time allowed for the battery to get to %100. If you are missing out on %20 of your amp hours because of lost charge, using a 220 AMp hour set up means losing 44 amp hours, and using the preferred %50 battery capacity rating for deep cycles results in your usable 110 amp hours just went to roughly 60 amp hours. Sucks to spend all that money on nice batteries and lose up to %20 of them right away.

More importantly pay attention the the charge voltage the battery requires. Table 2 on this link will give you the voltages for a 12v set up. Though you are using 6v batteries, use the 12v set up unless you are going to use a 6v charger.

https://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/ Bulk charger for the Trojan is 14.8, Float is 13.5. I would be surprised if your RV charger is going above 13.5 during the bulk stage. (Also be surprised if your Canadian Tire smart charger does either, the one I had wouldn't go above 13.5) Because of Trojan's plate design they do recommend a higher bulk voltage to get the power back to full. You do need to check the water levels more often when pushing that much voltage into the batteries. 14.8v is not to high and will not ruin your batteries, though 14.4 will work it just takes longer, it is the volts you need to push the amps into the battery. Remember its not pushing 14.8 volts all the time, its just doing so until it either reaches that voltage or at the duration determine by the programming in the charger. Every charger is different.

You can buy the best battery on the market but if you do not charge it properly it is no better than a Walmart car battery.

 

[Caper11]

My solar panel controller is a progressive charger as well, the progressive dynamic charge controller that came with my trailer is a very nice controller.

 

[takethebounce]

My solar panel controller is a progressive charger as well, the progressive dynamic charge controller that came with my trailer is a very nice controller.

Personally I wouldn't rely upon an onboard converter for full time charging for my use. I rarely use shore power anyways. Everyone's battery use is different but just looking at the Progressive Dynamic's Charge Wizard profile on their website it would almost be impossible to maintain %100 battery capacity for me.

They use 14.4 volts for 4 hours max, then switch to 13.6 for another 28 hours to achieve full. So your battery charge time could be over 32 hours, which being only 24 hours in a day, over a period of several days you risk running your batteries quite low. This is all dependent on your usage. The more amps you use, the longer it takes to recharge them. If you are only using 20-40 amp hours not so much of a big deal. Anything supplied in an RV is going to be conservative in its charging because they need to provide charging for just about every battery type, and do so safely.

Its definitely better than the 2 stager that came in my trailer and likely many other lower end RV's.

 

[DaveB]

Personally I wouldn't rely upon an onboard converter for full time charging for my use. I rarely use shore power anyways. Everyone's battery use is different but just looking at the Progressive Dynamic's Charge Wizard profile on their website it would almost be impossible to maintain %100 battery capacity for me.

They use 14.4 volts for 4 hours max, then switch to 13.6 for another 28 hours to achieve full. So your battery charge time could be over 32 hours, which being only 24 hours in a day, over a period of several days you risk running your batteries quite low. This is all dependent on your usage. The more amps you use, the longer it takes to recharge them. If you are only using 20-40 amp hours not so much of a big deal. Anything supplied in an RV is going to be conservative in its charging because they need to provide charging for just about every battery type, and do so safely.

Its definitely better than the 2 stager that came in my trailer and likely many other lower end RV's.

I mostly agree with ya, but 14.4v for 4 hours is plenty if your batteries aren't stone dead. I've ran a Charge Wizard on my last 3 RVs (maybe 4). On my current rig, say I watch TV and run the furnace lots on a fall camp trip. By morning my batts are 12.2-12.3 or so volts...which I believe is considered 50% discharged. I fire up the genny long enough to defrost bacon and make a pot of coffee and we're at 12.6-12.7v again. I don't run the genny again until the next morning. I'm on new batteries as of last year, but the originals lasted 7 yrs.

Bottom line: I recommend the Charge Wizard. If you have a 60 or 80 amp converter, the CW makes it a decent charger. A "normal" converter in an RV is nothing more than a trickle charger for the batts.

 

[Rene G]

I mostly agree with ya, but 14.4v for 4 hours is plenty if your batteries aren't stone dead. I've ran a Charge Wizard on my last 3 RVs (maybe 4). On my current rig, say I watch TV and run the furnace lots on a fall camp trip. By morning my batts are 12.2-12.3 or so volts...which I believe is considered 50% discharged. I fire up the genny long enough to defrost bacon and make a pot of coffee and we're at 12.6-12.7v again. I don't run the genny again until the next morning. I'm on new batteries as of last year, but the originals lasted 7 yrs.

Bottom line: I recommend the Charge Wizard. If you have a 60 or 80 amp converter, the CW makes it a decent charger. A "normal" converter in an RV is nothing more than a trickle charger for the batts.

Are you replacing everything, or just adding the CW module?

 

[DaveB]

Are you replacing everything, or just adding the CW module?

Just add the CW doo-dad. Check your converter...most models have a “phone plug” on the side somewhere. Go the the CW website and order the appropriate one.
Edit: just checked...apparently mine is an Iota brand. Same thing.

 

[Caper11]

Personally I wouldn't rely upon an onboard converter for full time charging for my use. I rarely use shore power anyways. Everyone's battery use is different but just looking at the Progressive Dynamic's Charge Wizard profile on their website it would almost be impossible to maintain %100 battery capacity for me.

They use 14.4 volts for 4 hours max, then switch to 13.6 for another 28 hours to achieve full. So your battery charge time could be over 32 hours, which being only 24 hours in a day, over a period of several days you risk running your batteries quite low. This is all dependent on your usage. The more amps you use, the longer it takes to recharge them. If you are only using 20-40 amp hours not so much of a big deal. Anything supplied in an RV is going to be conservative in its charging because they need to provide charging for just about every battery type, and do so safely.

Its definitely better than the 2 stager that came in my trailer and likely many other lower end RV's.

I dunno If I agree. Depending on the load, and inverter use, killing a battery will shorten its life.
I do alot of dry camping and use a generator when needed, along with solar, and no inverter.
I never had a dead set of batteries, and I always charged my batteries with my smart charger after every winter before putting them back in the trailer.
That being said after 9 years my set of 6v batteries would still have 12.6v in the morning, my buddies trailer is the same year and he has gone through 3 sets already.
Proper maintenance and water levels with a good charger/maintainer goes along way.

 

[Caper11]

Just add the CW doo-dad. Check your converter...most models have a “phone plug” on the side somewhere. Go the the CW website and order the appropriate one.
Edit: just checked...apparently mine is an Iota brand. Same thing.
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Whats the black box for? I know progressive dynamics has a pendant to force charge modes. Is that what that is?

 

[DaveB]

Whats the black box for? I know progressive dynamics has a pendant to force charge modes. Is that what that is?

Yuppers