Trans Mountain Pipeline(TMX) #1 reason for failure.

[Caper11]

That’s not the point. The point is that in order to persuade the public to support the Tmx project, they need to load people up with money. Not only landowners, but environmentalists, indiginous, enhance fisheries/environment and have emergency response working plans. They have done none of the above. There is no benefit to anyone yet. Nothing. Nada. How they ever thought this approach would work is beyond me.

Whats in it for us?? All I hear, people looking for a payday. Hypocrisy at its best.

I have a original trans mountain line 200yards from my house. Am I worried, nope not one bit, I’ve never lost a moment of sleep.
That line will go in the ground, at some point.
Is already been installed in the Jasper national park almost 10 years ago, no drama from that Govt.

 

[Stompin Tom]

$4-5 a barrel is their gross income.
After infrastructure maintenance/upgrading, salaries, general business cost I doubt the net profit is more than $1-2 bbl
Just saying it is profitable but not a diamond mine.

Yup, just one guy shows up in the morning, flicks a switch on, the oil starts flowing, he gets out his calculator, figures out how many million he made that day, when he gets bored, he turns the switch off and goes home. Yup, thats how a pipe line is run.

 

[Stompin Tom]

There is no benefit to anyone yet. Nothing. Nada. How they ever thought this approach would work is beyond me.

The economy. Hospitals, Police force, Firemen, road maintenance, jobs.

you bet, no benenfit to anyone.

 

[kanedog]

The economy. Hospitals, Police force, Firemen, road maintenance, jobs.

you bet, no benenfit to anyone.

A few hundred jobs after Tmx is complete? Big deal. We deserve more than just maintenance jobs.
What does the owner of the oil promise? Do they promise Alberta 100 mil/year for hospitals, education and province infrastructure? No. Nothing. Get a solid answer in writing and now we don’t have to guess where the money is going. Ask the tough questions. Get the answers. All we have now is that there will be jobs. No chit Sherlock.

 

[j335]

A few hundred jobs after Tmx is complete? Big deal. We deserve more than just maintenance jobs.
What does the owner of the oil promise? Do they promise Alberta 100 mil/year for hospitals, education and province infrastructure? No. Nothing. Get a solid answer in writing and now we don’t have to guess where the money is going. Ask the tough questions. Get the answers. All we have now is that there will be jobs. No chit Sherlock.

Alberta is curtailing 250,000 bbls per day of oil because there are no pipelines, absolutely disgusting it has come to this nonsense.
I work in for an oil company that is curtailed, extremely sad as we went from a few dozen drilling rigs to a handful in a matter of a month. Guess what happens when no drilling happens? No service rig, no construction, hotels empty, restaurants empty, no entertainment money, less donations to non for profits (see the news worst in decades) and most importantly NO government royalties to pay for government non income services (ie: healthcare, education, roads).

I believe to ship on TMX is around $5/bbl (not sure exactly), ship to US gulf coast is $10-12/bbl, rail is $15-20/bbl.

For now we will continue to curtail oil and figure out ways to increase rail oil shipments which is costlier with higher safety risk and higher GHG emissions. Great seeing those trains roar through town beside homes, waiting for another disaster to happen. Job well done Canada.

 

[acesup800]

A few hundred jobs after Tmx is complete? Big deal. We deserve more than just maintenance jobs.
What does the owner of the oil promise? Do they promise Alberta 100 mil/year for hospitals, education and province infrastructure? No. Nothing. Get a solid answer in writing and now we don’t have to guess where the money is going. Ask the tough questions. Get the answers. All we have now is that there will be jobs. No chit Sherlock.

You live in the lower mainland? What piece of property exactly do you have that they intend to run the pipeline through? And how many sq.ft do they need?

 

[Cdnfireman]

A few hundred jobs after Tmx is complete? Big deal. We deserve more than just maintenance jobs.
What does the owner of the oil promise? Do they promise Alberta 100 mil/year for hospitals, education and province infrastructure? No. Nothing. Get a solid answer in writing and now we don’t have to guess where the money is going. Ask the tough questions. Get the answers. All we have now is that there will be jobs. No chit Sherlock.

I always wonder why the oil industry is the only industry where people expect that they be given a cut of the profits from the operations and activities of the companies. Do you expect the lumber companies to cut you a cheque for every tree they cut down? What do the timber companies promise BC in return for doing business there? Nothing, that’s what they promise. The pay stumpage and taxes to the province the same way the oil companies pay royalties and taxes. Both industries figure out the bottom line and if it’s profitable to do business, they do so. If not, they don’t.
A pipeline is a piece of durable infrastructure like a rail line or a highway. It takes lots of people to build any of them, then just a few to operate and maintain. Do you expect the railroad to employ hundreds of people to do nothing just because they put a rail line in your community? It’s never happened, never will, and don’t expect anything different from a pipeline.

 

[kanedog]

You live in the lower mainland? What piece of property exactly do you have that they intend to run the pipeline through? And how many sq.ft do they need?

Yes, Lower Mainland. They need 1.5 acres. An additional 1.5acres for increased “safety zone.” The unusable and inaccessible land, stale land, because of the pipeline is about 4 acres. So in total, seven acres.
Instead of paying for the loss of land and being fair, they are threatening the 1952 agreement to build the pipeline on the existing right of way and paying only for workspace.
My message is the Tmx is not “fair and equitable” like what is advertised in the media. My issue is not as important as how the other 3,000 landowners and the public land is being treated. I am not opposed to the pipeline.

 

[kanedog]

I always wonder why the oil industry is the only industry where people expect that they be given a cut of the profits from the operations and activities of the companies. Do you expect the lumber companies to cut you a cheque for every tree they cut down? What do the timber companies promise BC in return for doing business there? Nothing, that’s what they promise. The pay stumpage and taxes to the province the same way the oil companies pay royalties and taxes. Both industries figure out the bottom line and if it’s profitable to do business, they do so. If not, they don’t.
A pipeline is a piece of durable infrastructure like a rail line or a highway. It takes lots of people to build any of them, then just a few to operate and maintain. Do you expect the railroad to employ hundreds of people to do nothing just because they put a rail line in your community? It’s never happened, never will, and don’t expect anything different from a pipeline.

Nobody expects a cut of the profits. People want to be compensated for their loss of land, complete and proper environmental assessments, emergency procedures in place. Tmx is doing none of the above. It’s a joke to be honest. Nobody is jumping up and down saying no pipelines. Nobody is saying give me a cut of the profits. People want private and public lands to be protected from spills. Tmx isn’t doing that. Not even close. The public needs to know this.

 

[whoDEANie]

Nobody expects a cut of the profits. People want to be compensated for their loss of land, complete and proper environmental assessments, emergency procedures in place. Tmx is doing none of the above. It’s a joke to be honest. Nobody is jumping up and down saying no pipelines. Nobody is saying give me a cut of the profits. People want private and public lands to be protected from spills. Tmx isn’t doing that. Not even close. The public needs to know this.

They spent close to $1 Billion in the consultation period with no guarantee that the project would get off the ground. Is this the message we should be sending to big investors in Canada's economy? Why would anyone do business here much less go above and beyond what their legally obligated to do?

 

[snopro]

They can divert it to my land if they want. I like pipelines. Come in, compensate me for the use of the land. Compensate me for any crop loss and I farm over it for eternity. Way better than a serviced well that cuts up fields and have to farm around it.

 

[Zrock]

interesting on how you blocked out what you were getting paid.. If their is a existing line running through your property what are you being compensated for that one

 

[Teth-Air]

That’s not the point. The point is that in order to persuade the public to support the Tmx project, they need to load people up with money. Not only landowners, but environmentalists, indiginous, enhance fisheries/environment and have emergency response working plans. They have done none of the above. There is no benefit to anyone yet. Nothing. Nada. How they ever thought this approach would work is beyond me.

Well with your analogy I should get a bucket of money because I am an Albertan and it is my oil too? If you come on here and want support you need to at least start with the facts. I do understand this is your land and they are not being forthcoming but the government can walk in an annex your land and give you next to nothing because it is in the interest to the nation. There should be a balance between your stand and that heavy handed approach but start fair and it should end fair.

 

[kanedog]

Well with your analogy I should get a bucket of money because I am an Albertan and it is my oil too? If you come on here and want support you need to at least start with the facts. I do understand this is your land and they are not being forthcoming but the government can walk in an annex your land and give you next to nothing because it is in the interest to the nation. There should be a balance between your stand and that heavy handed approach but start fair and it should end fair.

The whole point of this thread is to illustrate why the Tmx is being held up. It’s being held up because of how Tmx has handled the requirements thus far. If they were following rules and doing things properly, the pipes would be in ground right now. They have lied, cheated, skirted the National Enegy Board requirements and pissed off half the population because of it. It would be done by now if they weren’t cutting corners and doing shady chit. Tmx has no one to blame but Tmx itself. You wanna blame someone for no oil industry jobs, now you know who to point the finger at. I’m pretty sure all of us S&M members could do a better job than Tmx. It’s that bad.
This pipeline inside scoop brought to you by Kanedog. Now pipe me some of that Albert gold. I’ll stand by my right of way and salute when this pitch is done!

 

[snopro]

I personally think it is more about American paid protesters and greedy indigenous peoples than how Joe citizen is being treated on the pipeline right aways. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Caper11]

I had this exact same conversation about 6mtns ago with a BC resident. He did not want the pipeline unless he was compensated somehow, another socialist looking for a handout thats not deserved.


I wonder is people would want the pipeline if it was salt water running through it.

 

[kanedog]

I personally think it is more about American paid protesters and greedy indigenous peoples than how Joe citizen is being treated on the pipeline right aways. Just my 2 cents.

I’m not familiar with the protests but no indigenous band is being greedy. They just want proper studies and emergency plans in place. Their concerns are not being dealt with. It’s just Tmx holding up their own pipeline again. ://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/trans-mountain-approval-frustrating-says-b-c-chief-with-unresolved-concerns-about-pipeline-project-1.5180271

 

[whoDEANie]

I’m not familiar with the protests but no indigenous band is being greedy. They just want proper studies and emergency plans in place. Their concerns are not being dealt with. It’s just Tmx holding up their own pipeline again. ://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/trans-mountain-approval-frustrating-says-b-c-chief-with-unresolved-concerns-about-pipeline-project-1.5180271

That's pretty funny. He never made a big stink back in April but never made mention of any spill, only stating that he had concerns of a potential spill: https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...ng-scientists-could-complicate-trans-mountain

T

 

[fargineyesore]

I’m not familiar with the protests but no indigenous band is being greedy. They just want proper studies and emergency plans in place. Their concerns are not being dealt with. It’s just Tmx holding up their own pipeline again. ://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/trans-mountain-approval-frustrating-says-b-c-chief-with-unresolved-concerns-about-pipeline-project-1.5180271

Isn't the attached story more about the one band than all the bands? Just because this one band is concerned about water, doesn't mean the others aren't all about money. It's naive to say no indigenous band is being greedy because none of us are at the negotiating table. Furthermore, what is being presented in the media is not necessarily what the band is presenting to Trans Mountain. There are many First Nation bands that are for the pipeline. Be careful believing everything you read in the media.

Are you sure that what you are asking for compensation isn't what most people would consider unreasonable? You claim you are being offered 10 percent of land value, but is there a difference between what you think the land is worth and what Trans Mountain thinks it is worth? Do you agree with their assessment of the value and they are only offering 10 percent of that?

If pipeline or other resource companies just brought out a blank cheque and asked people how much they want, nothing would get built as no one would be able to afford it. There are many greedy people out there and they aren't limited to corporations.

 

[Teth-Air]

I say Kanedog gets free sled fuel for life to put up with the pipeline on his property. OR Kanedog doesn't get the pipeline but then is banned for using fossil fuels for life....his choice. Sounds fair to me.