Trail User Fees

[ratpak]

Great thread. Very informative.
What is the regular grooming schedule in McBride?

 

[Poleman]

Some clarification is needed here.

The McBride Trail Groomer is a private contractor. In previous years, the $15.00 passes went 100% to him (minus a decent sized donation to the snowmobile club). The trail pass costs have not gone up for years, but fuel, maintenance, etc, has increased. His portion of the passes is now at $17.00. Reasonable.

We now have been legislated to charge 12% HST on Tail Passes, which amounts to $2.68 having to be sent to the Government. That's almost $3.00 that we don't see any real benefit from. The actual trail passes are $22.32, add $2.68 HST = $25.00.

$1.00 from each trail pass is to go to Canadian Avalanche Association.

That leaves a balance of $4.32 from each pass to go to the Snowmobile Club. The funds will be used for Propane to heat the three mountain warmup cabins, clear snow from all the parking lots, maintain cabins and trails,
and all other activities that keep these trails available to the sledders. Many of these extras used to be funded by government programs that were cancelled this fall with no warning. We now have to pay for these things ourselves if we want sledding in McBride. Simple as that.

I have placed a list under the heading of "donations" of the individuals and businesses that have donated funds to assist the snowmobile club this winter. I will be keeping this list updated as the funds come in. We are hoping that sledders will take this list into consideration when they spend money in town.

Are you sure if a not for profit association has to charge HST? Run the trail passes through the club and maybe the trail pass drops $3 day?

 

[imdoo'n]

us guys in alberta don't pay hst just gst, must be a form we have to send into bc government for a rebate.

 

[shellnekov]

Saving HST is a matter of very little, my point is McBride business not supporting the hand that feeds them. My dollar will go to the place that offers me the best value for my buck. McBride certainly not trying. Post the dollar amount of donations or even a range.Prove business is doing their part. They get all the benefits. Maybe I can get my name on the sponsor list for say $5. Wow .

 

[heyjude]

Are you sure if a not for profit association has to charge HST? Run the trail passes through the club and maybe the trail pass drops $3 day?

I phoned the HST people a couple of weeks ago. Doesn't matter if you are a non-profit. If you are selling tickets (or passes) to persons that are expecting a service, or expecting something of a reasonable value (i.e. warmup cabins, brushed trails, etc.) for their $$$, HST applies. We REALLY wanted to try to get around it. We MAY end up getting a portion of those $$ refunded. ABC Snowmobile Clubs is looking into some of these issues for their member organizations.

 

[heyjude]

Saving HST is a matter of very little, my point is McBride business not supporting the hand that feeds them. My dollar will go to the place that offers me the best value for my buck. McBride certainly not trying. Post the dollar amount of donations or even a range.Prove business is doing their part. They get all the benefits. Maybe I can get my name on the sponsor list for say $5. Wow .

Sorry, shellnekov. You don't get on the list unless you have donated a minimum of $150.00.

 

[imdoo'n]

Saving HST is a matter of very little, my point is McBride business not supporting the hand that feeds them. My dollar will go to the place that offers me the best value for my buck. McBride certainly not trying. Post the dollar amount of donations or even a range.Prove business is doing their part. They get all the benefits. Maybe I can get my name on the sponsor list for say $5. Wow .

not a lot on any single purchase, but over the year it will add up in a hurry.

 

[mphfreak]

I thought about this trail fee hike a bit, Was the contract opened up for bid? There is gonna be less sledders now with such a hike.....double edged sword. Cheaper trail fee, more sledders, more business for town. Same money going to groomer with increase of sleds. Hiked trail fee, less sledders, less business for town. Same money going to groomer. Incoming money to groomer will be the same if more sledders. The hike will take care of the less sledders to the groomer. The ultimate price is the town is going to suffer. Money is tight for most people East of the Rockies and they will go where it is affordable.

 

[ferniesnow]

Some clarification is needed here.

The McBride Trail Groomer is a private contractor.

We at the FSA (Fernie Snowmobile Association) were grooming through a "private contractor" also. Long story short, we couldn't afford it. We leased a SnowCat, and the rest is history. PM me for the details.

PS The HST is only applicable for clubs over the $50,000 (something like that) threshold is it not? Creative book keeping?

 

[dezmitchell]

Let me get this right ??

Some peeps on here ride $20,000-$30,000 Selds
These same people run the $20,000 enclosed trailer behind the $60,000 truck.
Some of these SAME people pay 5$/gallon of race fuel so lets give you the benifit of the doubt and say it costs you $100 bucks to fuel your sled for the day.

And yet some of these same people are toatly BUTT HURT that the trailpass went up somethings not adding up here??

I realize that that not everyone is a high roller but it seems that when ever im in the parkin lots these are the only rig i see.

I ride a $6000 sled use regual 87 octane that gets pulled on a old v nose flat deck behind a 05 dodge gas job and i have NO problem with the 25$ for a pass tell ya what im guna really rase the bar here by buying a Season pass and a donation the the mcbride club when im there in dec for my 1st trip.

I dont care what i have to pay to ride the trail up as long as i get to ride GOOD JOB Mcbride club do what you must to keep the grins on my face.

 

[teeroy]

Let me get this right ??

Some peeps on here ride $20,000-$30,000 Selds
These same people run the $20,000 enclosed trailer behind the $60,000 truck.
Some of these SAME people pay 5$/gallon of race fuel so lets give you the benifit of the doubt and say it costs you $100 bucks to fuel your sled for the day.

And yet some of these same people are toatly BUTT HURT that the trailpass went up somethings not adding up here??

I realize that that not everyone is a high roller but it seems that when ever im in the parkin lots these are the only rig i see.

I ride a $6000 sled use regual 87 octane that gets pulled on a old v nose flat deck behind a 05 dodge gas job and i have NO problem with the 25$ for a pass tell ya what im guna really rase the bar here by buying a Season pass and a donation the the mcbride club when im there in dec for my 1st trip.

I dont care what i have to pay to ride the trail up as long as i get to ride GOOD JOB Mcbride club do what you must to keep the grins on my face.

I hope you're not trying to lump me into that group of high rollers. 'cause I sure as fawk ain't one of 'em.

If I did pay 20-30K for a sled, 20K for a trailer, and another 60K for a truck it would be because I expect value for my money. same deal here....if I'm paying $25/day to ride groomed trails, I want to ride a groomed trail. excuses as to why it wasn't groomed while taking my money doesn't cut it.

 

[mphfreak]

Let me get this right ??

Some peeps on here ride $20,000-$30,000 Selds
These same people run the $20,000 enclosed trailer behind the $60,000 truck.
Some of these SAME people pay 5$/gallon of race fuel so lets give you the benifit of the doubt and say it costs you $100 bucks to fuel your sled for the day.

And yet some of these same people are toatly BUTT HURT that the trailpass went up somethings not adding up here??

I realize that that not everyone is a high roller but it seems that when ever im in the parkin lots these are the only rig i see.

I ride a $6000 sled use regual 87 octane that gets pulled on a old v nose flat deck behind a 05 dodge gas job and i have NO problem with the 25$ for a pass tell ya what im guna really rase the bar here by buying a Season pass and a donation the the mcbride club when im there in dec for my 1st trip.

I dont care what i have to pay to ride the trail up as long as i get to ride GOOD JOB Mcbride club do what you must to keep the grins on my face.

Snowmobiling seems to be turning into an upper class sport, He who has the highest T-4 may ride this mountain. I dont think its fair to the average person who saves all year, or the local who once rode for free. This is just shy of double for a trail pass. Be careful when you say "I dont care what i have to pay".

 

[dezmitchell]

Snowmobiling seems to be turning into an upper class sport, He who has the highest T-4 may ride this mountain. I dont think its fair to the average person who saves all year, or the local who once rode for free. This is just shy of double for a trail pass. Be careful when you say "I dont care what i have to pay".

I would rather pay a stupid rate then not ride at all....

 

[shellnekov]

I would rather pay a stupid rate then not ride at all....

I will ride where there is good value for my dollar. Like my previous post, my group rides Mon-thur. We have not had a fresh groom in McBride in 3 years. FACT. But every morning there is a dude waiting with his hand out for $15. Now $25. If I was riding fresh groom I may suck it up, but no groom at $15 was hard to take, now $25. Good luck.If McBride doesnt not think my money is good then I am pretty sure somewhere down highway 5, someone will.My beef is with business, if business stepped up, covered the grooming and had free passes (best case). McBride would be swamped with business, pouring money back into the same peoples hand who paid for the groomer. The way it sits now, we pay and they get the money. Greed.

 

[bbtoys]

Renshaw was groomed Sunday nites for the Monday to Wed. groups most every week. Lucille not.
If you ride 3 days 4 times a year it is a total of 60 bucks more than down the road. we are prepared to lose a few riders but not to worried. The money that sledders spend in the winter helps get some of our businesses through the summer, not alot of disposible income here as we have no big companies left.
Anybody from Sask. that would like to talk to me in person on this or anything else, I will see you at the Saskatoon show booth 34, leaving tomorrow. Staying at the Saskatoon Inn if you want to buy Rod and I a beer Thursday nite.

 

[ratpak]

I have to agree with some of the statements on here. I want value for my money. If I pay for a groomed trail, it should be groomed. If I'm only paying for the use of the mountain and cabin, then here's my $8... Thank you!

And I sick of the aurgument that because a handful of arsholes own $20,000 sleds, and $60,000 trucks, and $30,000 trailers, and $400 jackets, that all of us should pay whatever the price tag says and keep our mouths shut. I call Ballshat!!

I work hard for my money and I'm not going to waste it. I've never looked in my bank account and thought there was too much in there. If you're so thrilled and willing to pay anything; great! What weekend will you be in McBride? You can pay for everyone that day...

Again, it's not the $5 or $10 extra, it's the fact that I'm paying for a service I may not receive.

 

[JJMorrocco]

Jacking trail fees will also lead to guys finding new ways up the mountain or new mountains to explore - which will lead to more exposure to risk and threat of shutting down all areas. i.e. guys riding in Dore.

Is it not possible to treat the current riding areas as if they were amenities of the town and have the town pay to maintain them? Just like a skating rink or siwmming pool. Money would come from taxes to local businesses? That way it is fair to all busniesses in the area. Of course a smaller user fee would still have to apply.

How is the nordic ski track currently maintained?

 

[ferniesnow]

I have to agree with some of the statements on here. I want value for my money. If I pay for a groomed trail, it should be groomed. If I'm only paying for the use of the mountain and cabin, then here's my $8... Thank you!

And I sick of the aurgument that because a handful of arsholes own $20,000 sleds, and $60,000 trucks, and $30,000 trailers, and $400 jackets, that all of us should pay whatever the price tag says and keep our mouths shut. I call Ballshat!!

I work hard for my money and I'm not going to waste it. I've never looked in my bank account and thought there was too much in there. If you're so thrilled and willing to pay anything; great! What weekend will you be in McBride? You can pay for everyone that day...

Again, it's not the $5 or $10 extra, it's the fact that I'm paying for a service I may not receive.

Now how do you pay for the service of a cabin with all the maintenance, land use, trail maintenance, groomer maintenance, fuel, and I could go on and on.

There is a lot more than the expense of grooming the trail to run a club and keep the back country open.

Try to look at the big picture that clubs are into and quit thinking that the trail has to be table top smooth every time you go for a ride.....

 

[treemongrol]

Trail passes seem to be the same thru out the area. People are going to whine regardless. What some people seem to forget is that there are times were it is impossible to groom a good trail due to lack of snow for days on end, there is only so much that can be pulled off the banks and the trail can only be cut down so many times before your into dirt if there's no new snow. Yeah its a bummer that trail passes have gone up, but if a ten dollar increase is what your whining about suck it up, if your going to go somewhere else because the trail isn't groomed to your liking you'll find something to complain about there also. Small towns like Mcbride, Valemont and such depend alot on their tourism as there is not much else there. A lot of what is made during the winter has to stretch out for the slow months during the summer. Also remember that the club maintains the cabins and other things that some people seem to insist on wrecking every time they go up. Bottom line is cost goes up on everything over time. People wanted a groom trail, they got a groomed trail with that groomed trail came trail passes, then cabins with the cabins came more people, some good some bad.

 

[bbtoys]

Jacking trail fees will also lead to guys finding new ways up the mountain or new mountains to explore - which will lead to more exposure to risk and threat of shutting down all areas. i.e. guys riding in Dore.

Is it not possible to treat the current riding areas as if they were amenities of the town and have the town pay to maintain them? Just like a skating rink or siwmming pool. Money would come from taxes to local businesses? That way it is fair to all busniesses in the area. Of course a smaller user fee would still have to apply.

How is the nordic ski track currently maintained?

they sell memberships and with help from anyone who can help. the club and the groomer on Belle this year will be setting their trails for them, we have offered this to help out.
Trust me when I say, if the town was to look after it you would be paying more, our tax base can't afford it.
Dore is 39 km of ungroomed trail, it is not legal to ride, fines starting this year at 563, no SAR oh and it is not legal. for the sake of saving 5 bucks over the other areas, pretty big chance you are willing to take in my opinion.