Things to look for- looking at buying first turbo sled- TSS instaboost

[Driftbuster]

Hey everyone,
looking at picking up a 2014 summit with a TSS instaboost kit on it... Currently riding a 14 summit 154, was planning on upgrading to a t3 in the spring but came across this turbo. It's running the new redline fuel controller, has a new top end- supposedly due to the previous boost it box leaning out one cylinder. Also has a new turbo, kpa billet wheel, has the ez ryde rear skid. New reeds, just wondering if there is anything I should look for in particular? Planning on running 7 lbs on straight av gas if I get it. Owner says it was never beyond 8 psi, but who can you trust now a days.
Thanks in advance guys

 

[moto5151]

Ride it, their kit is great. a little suspect about the boost-it box issues. Boost-it has one of the best fuel controller on the market.

 

[cnelson6]

I agree it does sound suspect on the boost it box. Look at the fit and finish and the wiring I've noticed it isn't very clean and the connectors used are a little hokey. I'm not sure on the redline fueling as I have never used it but I have heard it has some refinement that is needed from a couple of ppl. I also think that TSS customer service has gone downhill from where it used to be but I don't know that for a fact as I haven't directly dealt with them. They also had pipe issues with some of the first gen instaboost kits and the kpa turbos have been hit and miss for life expectancy. Not looking to start a brand war or anything these are purely things I have noticed and or heard.

 

[Driftbuster]

Yes I'm not sure about the boost it box issue, seen pics of the piston though and it was defintely a lean condition. Also got a new wiring harness with the Redline box as I'm assuming the boost it harness isn't compatible with it? I was under the impression the boost it boxes were good, but if they are switching to Redline then so be it. Thanks for the advice guys, will look over the sled with fine tooth comb and I'll report back.

 

[pfi572]

I think they switched box's due to a falling out between the two companies .

 

[maierch]

Yes I'm not sure about the boost it box issue, seen pics of the piston though and it was defintely a lean condition. Also got a new wiring harness with the Redline box as I'm assuming the boost it harness isn't compatible with it? I was under the impression the boost it boxes were good, but if they are switching to Redline then so be it. Thanks for the advice guys, will look over the sled with fine tooth comb and I'll report back.

I had a buddy inquire about this sled. It looks suspicious that they have changed so much in such a short time Pistons, turbo, fuel programmer. The guy selling it claimed to be a mechanic for TSS as well.

In my opinion the lean condition wasn't caused by the boost it box but more than likely the early season troubles TSS had with the instaboost pipe design which caused them to run lean. If the connector to the XIC (boost-it) box failed which is what the guy told my buddy then the sled would run so poorly the turbo wouldn't even spool. Remember- just my opinion I could be wrong but I believe the pipe in mine cost me a rod through the block last Christmas.

I think this ones a lemon and as cnelson6 said their customer service has been crap lately as well so it's unlikely you'll get any support.

 

[khaos_]

i have a 14 Freeride 154 with the TSS Instaboost, and EZryde suspension. Suspension is pretty cool. Only advice I will give you from my personal experience is stay away from it. Get yourself a new summit 174 T3 or 163 T3 and turbo it later if you need it.

 

[khaos_]

i can comment on TSS customer service first hand. It sucks!!! I dealt with Brando directly, and the guy was super cool but once my sled got out of their shop, and they were super busy I couldn't get any help. Been on my own since still trying to figure **** out from other guys.

I agree it does sound suspect on the boost it box. Look at the fit and finish and the wiring I've noticed it isn't very clean and the connectors used are a little hokey. I'm not sure on the redline fueling as I have never used it but I have heard it has some refinement that is needed from a couple of ppl. I also think that TSS customer service has gone downhill from where it used to be but I don't know that for a fact as I haven't directly dealt with them. They also had pipe issues with some of the first gen instaboost kits and the kpa turbos have been hit and miss for life expectancy. Not looking to start a brand war or anything these are purely things I have noticed and or heard.

 

[DirtyDangles]

I'm going to comment on both the box and support...

I just pulled my boost it box off because the boost it technology fuels on an RPM curve, thus if the controller looses RPM signal, no fuel. Also the boostit box is not sealed at all, with the redline box the entire internals are totoally water tight and coated. Another issue is that the TSS designs seems to put more air density because they have a better designed air box so when you are in and out of the throttle and boost is still coming in you create a lean spot in the lower/mid range. With the boost it controller we could never get rid of a little 'gurgle' out the bottom as boost comes on, as soon as we put the new redline box on it totally cleaned up the bottom as well less lag when on/off the throttle... redline has a fuel by boost sensor that TSS can go in and tune specific to your sled (which you should always due) because all rave valves act a bit different.

As for support from TSS, speaking with them they have decided to take a small shop approach again, thus with the race team and the shop he is crazy busy. patience is appreciated by them it seems. I have been on my side mount/ water to air/10psi kit for two years now, and I would never go anywhere else for my turbo... they just seem to make more power... and for my money, I want the most power!!!

 

[Diamondledinc]

I'm going to comment on both the box and support...

I just pulled my boost it box off because the boost it technology fuels on an RPM curve, thus if the controller looses RPM signal, no fuel. Also the boostit box is not sealed at all, with the redline box the entire internals are totoally water tight and coated. Another issue is that the TSS designs seems to put more air density because they have a better designed air box so when you are in and out of the throttle and boost is still coming in you create a lean spot in the lower/mid range. With the boost it controller we could never get rid of a little 'gurgle' out the bottom as boost comes on, as soon as we put the new redline box on it totally cleaned up the bottom as well less lag when on/off the throttle... redline has a fuel by boost sensor that TSS can go in and tune specific to your sled (which you should always due) because all rave valves act a bit different.

As for support from TSS, speaking with them they have decided to take a small shop approach again, thus with the race team and the shop he is crazy busy. patience is appreciated by them it seems. I have been on my side mount/ water to air/10psi kit for two years now, and I would never go anywhere else for my turbo... they just seem to make more power... and for my money, I want the most power!!!

I have the low end Gurgle as you call it as well. Its quite noticeable if you're trying to get unstuck because it doesn't have the torque it used to when it was stock. You pin it, it revs up, then bogs and then the boost comes on and pulls like mad.

You have your buddies ski pulling, it starts to moves, starts to get stuck again and then when boost hits you're off to the races. I am going to experiment with Ceramic bearings in the near future, apparently switching over (if i can without buying a new turbo) will enhance spool up time by 30%. As the compressor wheels is a restriction until the exhaust can spin the turbine fast enough to create boost.

 

[NM]

I'm going to comment on both the box and support...

I just pulled my boost it box off because the boost it technology fuels on an RPM curve, thus if the controller looses RPM signal, no fuel. Also the boostit box is not sealed at all, with the redline box the entire internals are totoally water tight and coated. Another issue is that the TSS designs seems to put more air density because they have a better designed air box so when you are in and out of the throttle and boost is still coming in you create a lean spot in the lower/mid range. With the boost it controller we could never get rid of a little 'gurgle' out the bottom as boost comes on, as soon as we put the new redline box on it totally cleaned up the bottom as well less lag when on/off the throttle... redline has a fuel by boost sensor that TSS can go in and tune specific to your sled (which you should always due) because all rave valves act a bit different.

As for support from TSS, speaking with them they have decided to take a small shop approach again, thus with the race team and the shop he is crazy busy. patience is appreciated by them it seems. I have been on my side mount/ water to air/10psi kit for two years now, and I would never go anywhere else for my turbo... they just seem to make more power... and for my money, I want the most power!!!

I better clear up a few things in case people believe what you are selling!

The Boost-It XIC does indeed have a silicone sprayed and coated board. We have run them on the bars for testing in spring rain and no problems. The keypad may have an issue if it gets too wet, but that only means you may not be able to adjust it. It still works fine.
The Boost-It XIC has a internal map sensor that reads boost pressure and thus increase duty cycle based on boost. It also fuels on rpm. Every fuel controller that I have ever heard of fuels based on rpm and boost. Some use throttle position as well.

We we can tune the bottom end any way we want it. The Map that TSS used was not nearly as complex as the Boost-It tune. We use baro pressure, intake air temp, and fine tune the bottom end based on rpm, boost, and baro. TSS did not do this.

TSS and Redline are telling people the Instaboost kit never ran last year because of the Boost-It XIC, yet it worked fine on the previous kit?? How many pipe changes did they make to the Instaboost pipe? How many self lubed turbos failed?
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
We offered more settings and technology to TSS and they declined saying they're kits ran "good enough".

I am just clearing the air because apparently some people if not the entire industry needs to know the truth.

The reason that TSS no longer has access to the Boost-It XIC is because they broke a contract with Boost-It and started producing they're own Polaris kit. In fact they bought 3 Boost-It Polaris kits in Sept 2014 and returned them in Oct. of 14 right after they released they're own kit at the Edm sled show. They kept all of the fuel boxes, fuel regulators and clutching from the 3 kits though. Despite this, we continued to support them through the season so they wouldn't be left high and dry. This was an honourable decision despite the fact that we were backhanded.

We fieled dozens of calls every week from TSS customers that can not get a resolution to their problems, and always do our best to help.

The intention is not to air our proverbial dirty laundry, but tell people the truth so they are not spreading rumours or guessing as to why they should or shouldn't deal with certain companies.

We we pride ourselves in our hard work, long hours of R&D, and exceptional customer support. We now have over 800 XICs out and about and try hard to support them. They are operating in numerous countries all over the world. The engineer that builds them has more than 30 years of fuel injection turbo experience.

Hope this helps clear up a few things.

 

[ABMax24]

Hey everyone,
looking at picking up a 2014 summit with a TSS instaboost kit on it... Currently riding a 14 summit 154, was planning on upgrading to a t3 in the spring but came across this turbo. It's running the new redline fuel controller, has a new top end- supposedly due to the previous boost it box leaning out one cylinder. Also has a new turbo, kpa billet wheel, has the ez ryde rear skid. New reeds, just wondering if there is anything I should look for in particular? Planning on running 7 lbs on straight av gas if I get it. Owner says it was never beyond 8 psi, but who can you trust now a days.
Thanks in advance guys

Sounds like your buying someone else's lemon, I would stay a long ways away from that one.

 

[chad006]

sounds pretty sales pitchy to me mr. Dangles! First post......hmm

 

[DirtyDangles]

Didn't mean to spread dirty laundry, I am simply telling what my experience was and how I had to fix it and what my issues were. It very well could have been a lack of tuning within the controller and them not running the same features within the tuner controller. Also I appreciate the info on how the XIC controller works, this is news to me as we had a silber kit with XIC controller two years ago and got told that it would not be supported.

And to be honest, 8 of us who ride together have turbo's, all different makes (Boondocker, Aero, HM, TSS side and instaboost, Speedwerx, BoostIt). My hope is that I come on here to learn more about each of the different systems, advantages/disadvantages, technology, experience, support so that others can make better decisions on products. And if I see where I can input on my experiences, I will.

We just got a boostit water/air 10psi kit from you and it does look great I have to say, we hope to see good things from it.

 

[smokindave]

Fred?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NM]

Didn't mean to spread dirty laundry, I am simply telling what my experience was and how I had to fix it and what my issues were. It very well could have been a lack of tuning within the controller and them not running the same features within the tuner controller. Also I appreciate the info on how the XIC controller works, this is news to me as we had a silber kit with XIC controller two years ago and got told that it would not be supported.

And to be honest, 8 of us who ride together have turbo's, all different makes (Boondocker, Aero, HM, TSS side and instaboost, Speedwerx, BoostIt). My hope is that I come on here to learn more about each of the different systems, advantages/disadvantages, technology, experience, support so that others can make better decisions on products. And if I see where I can input on my experiences, I will.

We just got a boostit water/air 10psi kit from you and it does look great I have to say, we hope to see good things from it.

I think people should do some solid research before they repeat things they believe to be true. TSS and Redline can blame the Boost-It XIC for the Instaboost problems, but here are the facts. I have talked to at least 12 owners of last years Instaboost kits, and even after changing the pipes at least once, they can not get the air fuel ratios down to a reasonable level at wide open. Pretty much every self lube turbo has failed at least once. Many have stuck a rod out of the side of a block.
Why is everyone is told to run straight race fuel or Av when Aerocharger, Impulse, and Boost-It can get away with running 7-8 lbs of boost with only mixing a 50/50 blend without knocking?
I doubt anyone can show a video of their kit running below13:1 AFR at WOT on that kit. Anything over 12.2-12.5:1 at wot is bad new.
These are facts we received from guys that own the kits, and not made up or rumours. If that pipe ever gets tested by an independant pipe manufacturer then the truth will come out. It always does.

It it is no secret that Boost-It would not support guys who bought used turbo kits with used XICs. Most of those kits had inherent issues that prevented them from running no matter how fuel was controlled, but the fuel controller was blamed for the problems so we no longer supported those kits. It is just bad business and very time consuming for us.
If a customer bought the XIC from us for one of those kits, then they were absolutely supported, but that hasn't happened for at least 4 years.

I hope your buddy doesnt try and run 10 lbs with our turbo kit. There is no need as we can run the clutches out at 7-8 lbs even on a geared up T3. All owners were instructed to not run over 8 and that is only a very altitude condition.
We never run ours over 7 lbs. the video that Cody from Riderz and 509 put on YouTube is a 4-6 lbs non intercooled kit that runs 25% race fuel.

 

[Driftbuster]

Thanks for the input guys, think I'm gonna stay away from it. I'll check a new T3 in the spring and turbo it down the road if needed.

 

[Hydro]

Here are my facts: 2014 XM 163" w/TSS Instaboost w/Water-to-Air Intercooler and Boost-it XIC fuel controller installed at 1250km on the odometer on January 12th, 2015, running VP C-111 and C-12 exclusively (100%, not mixed) since the turbo was install. Still running on the original KPA self-lubed turbo; guess I got the only good one? I am aware of the problem with the self-lubed turbo and have been assured that it will be replaced when the time comes on warranty with the addition of an oiling system.

Spent pretty much all of last season (20 days) and 1-2 days this season working on the tuning issues with the Instaboost and XIC controller. Bottom end bog: power-stall-power (stall at ~4500RPM), lean AFR (12.6-12.8 @ 8psi @ 52-5400RPM), followed by backfires and stalls at WOT. (pinging off the rev limiter w/clickers on 1).

Had a few conversations with Neil at Boost-it regarding help with tuning the sled to no avail. It was clearly apparent to me that Neil is a leading expert in tuning forced-induction Skidoos (boosted 2-strokes in general). It was also clearly apparent to me that he was not at all interested in helping riders tune their sleds using a Boot-It fuel controller that he didn’t sell/install. Avoiding the liability is understandable. That being said, I can confirm that water, in liquid or gaseous form affects the Boost-it box. When I took it off and replaced it (below) the LCD did not work, and there were little water droplets inside the screen of the LCD – that being said, the box still worked, I just couldn’t see the menu to change anything.

Changed the TSS configured Boost-it fuel controller to the TSS configured Redline fuel controller at ~2200km on the odometer on Friday November 27th, 2015. Immediate change in throttle response, mid range AFR’s and engine performance test running it on the ¼ section below the shop (low elevation). Test and tune ride with Brandon and the TSS crew on November 28[SUP]th[/SUP] at Eagles Pass. Elevation change required fuel map refinements. Fuel map changes resulted in more lag on the bottom, but good AFR’s through mid to high RPM ranges. Still pinging off the rev limiter. Changed spark plugs and top gear from 19 to 21. No longer pinging off of the rev limiter.

December 31 to January 3, 2016: Sled ran great (not perfect) till the afternoon of January 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], when a rave stud came loose and sprayed oil inside the engine compartment and on the clutches/belt. Henceforth could not get 8000RPM out of the sled, with backfires and stalls at 7-7200RPM (cleaned clutches as best I could, and adjusted clickers to 4 with no change). Have since changed spark plugs and will be taking apart my clutch to confirm it doesn’t need to be rebuilt. As of today, there are just over 3000km on the sled.

I received a tip from another TSS-Instaboost rider that the Terra Alps billet head has significantly changed his sleds performance and is no longer eating spark plugs every 3-500km’s. I have spoken to Ted, whom I believe to be another expert in his field, and I have ordered that head and will be installing it in the hope that dropping the MSV from 45-50m/s down to 25m/s will more efficiently burn the fuel and run cooler, resulting in better throttle response and the ability to cut my fuel with premium.

I am a novice (at best) turbo turner, however, after doing some reading on tuning high performance racing 2-strokes, I firmly believe that the turbo mounted in the center of the expansion chamber (Instaboost) is negatively affecting the performance of the sled, making it quite difficult to tune. I believe it is increasing the pressure and temperature high enough at or before TDC to cause det, thus the requirement for C-111 or C-12 @ 100% (minimum); compromising low RPM throttle response and a host of other issues I’m certain. I believe the side mount kits that spin the turbo after the exhaust gases exit the expansion chamber are a better option. They allow the expansion chamber to perform as designed (resonance, scavenging, pulse, valve timing, etc). However, the residual heat that they generate is likely negatively affecting the ECU which is mounted directly above a typical side mounted turbo. An ECU that requires cold fuel flow through it to keep the temperatures of the computer low enough for operation (think about that!) – hopefully ventilation is enough?

That’s probably enough for now. But, should I feel inclined, I may in the future convey my thoughts on Water-to-Air intercoolers (with real world temperature recording no less), among other things. Also, I’ll report back on the trials and tribulations of the Terra Alps head on my Instaboost. All else fails, my sled will magically reappear as a 2017 174” T3 w a Thing Cooker and that’s it! Big bore? Just maybe. (<-- my recommendation to the OP )

 

[mountainsledmania]

I think people should do some solid research before they repeat things they believe to be true. TSS and Redline can blame the Boost-It XIC for the Instaboost problems, but here are the facts. I have talked to at least 12 owners of last years Instaboost kits, and even after changing the pipes at least once, they can not get the air fuel ratios down to a reasonable level at wide open. Pretty much every self lube turbo has failed at least once. Many have stuck a rod out of the side of a block.
Why is everyone is told to run straight race fuel or Av when Aerocharger, Impulse, and Boost-It can get away with running 7-8 lbs of boost with only mixing a 50/50 blend without knocking?
I doubt anyone can show a video of their kit running below13:1 AFR at WOT on that kit. Anything over 12.2-12.5:1 at wot is bad new.
These are facts we received from guys that own the kits, and not made up or rumours. If that pipe ever gets tested by an independant pipe manufacturer then the truth will come out. It always does.

It it is no secret that Boost-It would not support guys who bought used turbo kits with used XICs. Most of those kits had inherent issues that prevented them from running no matter how fuel was controlled, but the fuel controller was blamed for the problems so we no longer supported those kits. It is just bad business and very time consuming for us.
If a customer bought the XIC from us for one of those kits, then they were absolutely supported, but that hasn't happened for at least 4 years.

I hope your buddy doesnt try and run 10 lbs with our turbo kit. There is no need as we can run the clutches out at 7-8 lbs even on a geared up T3. All owners were instructed to not run over 8 and that is only a very altitude condition.
We never run ours over 7 lbs. the video that Cody from Riderz and 509 put on YouTube is a 4-6 lbs non intercooled kit that runs 25% race fuel.

Neil that kit that Cody is riding is the Alt comp kit? Or do u make another kit that is u intercooled?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Bnorth]

Here are my facts: 2014 XM 163" w/TSS Instaboost w/Water-to-Air Intercooler and Boost-it XIC fuel controller installed at 1250km on the odometer on January 12th, 2015, running VP C-111 and C-12 exclusively (100%, not mixed) since the turbo was install. Still running on the original KPA self-lubed turbo; guess I got the only good one? I am aware of the problem with the self-lubed turbo and have been assured that it will be replaced when the time comes on warranty with the addition of an oiling system.

Spent pretty much all of last season (20 days) and 1-2 days this season working on the tuning issues with the Instaboost and XIC controller. Bottom end bog: power-stall-power (stall at ~4500RPM), lean AFR (12.6-12.8 @ 8psi @ 52-5400RPM), followed by backfires and stalls at WOT. (pinging off the rev limiter w/clickers on 1).

Had a few conversations with Neil at Boost-it regarding help with tuning the sled to no avail. It was clearly apparent to me that Neil is a leading expert in tuning forced-induction Skidoos (boosted 2-strokes in general). It was also clearly apparent to me that he was not at all interested in helping riders tune their sleds using a Boot-It fuel controller that he didn’t sell/install. Avoiding the liability is understandable. That being said, I can confirm that water, in liquid or gaseous form affects the Boost-it box. When I took it off and replaced it (below) the LCD did not work, and there were little water droplets inside the screen of the LCD – that being said, the box still worked, I just couldn’t see the menu to change anything.

Changed the TSS configured Boost-it fuel controller to the TSS configured Redline fuel controller at ~2200km on the odometer on Friday November 27th, 2015. Immediate change in throttle response, mid range AFR’s and engine performance test running it on the ¼ section below the shop (low elevation). Test and tune ride with Brandon and the TSS crew on November 28[SUP]th[/SUP] at Eagles Pass. Elevation change required fuel map refinements. Fuel map changes resulted in more lag on the bottom, but good AFR’s through mid to high RPM ranges. Still pinging off the rev limiter. Changed spark plugs and top gear from 19 to 21. No longer pinging off of the rev limiter.

December 31 to January 3, 2016: Sled ran great (not perfect) till the afternoon of January 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], when a rave stud came loose and sprayed oil inside the engine compartment and on the clutches/belt. Henceforth could not get 8000RPM out of the sled, with backfires and stalls at 7-7200RPM (cleaned clutches as best I could, and adjusted clickers to 4 with no change). Have since changed spark plugs and will be taking apart my clutch to confirm it doesn’t need to be rebuilt. As of today, there are just over 3000km on the sled.

I received a tip from another TSS-Instaboost rider that the Terra Alps billet head has significantly changed his sleds performance and is no longer eating spark plugs every 3-500km’s. I have spoken to Ted, whom I believe to be another expert in his field, and I have ordered that head and will be installing it in the hope that dropping the MSV from 45-50m/s down to 25m/s will more efficiently burn the fuel and run cooler, resulting in better throttle response and the ability to cut my fuel with premium.

I am a novice (at best) turbo turner, however, after doing some reading on tuning high performance racing 2-strokes, I firmly believe that the turbo mounted in the center of the expansion chamber (Instaboost) is negatively affecting the performance of the sled, making it quite difficult to tune. I believe it is increasing the pressure and temperature high enough at or before TDC to cause det, thus the requirement for C-111 or C-12 @ 100% (minimum); compromising low RPM throttle response and a host of other issues I’m certain. I believe the side mount kits that spin the turbo after the exhaust gases exit the expansion chamber are a better option. They allow the expansion chamber to perform as designed (resonance, scavenging, pulse, valve timing, etc). However, the residual heat that they generate is likely negatively affecting the ECU which is mounted directly above a typical side mounted turbo. An ECU that requires cold fuel flow through it to keep the temperatures of the computer low enough for operation (think about that!) – hopefully ventilation is enough?

That’s probably enough for now. But, should I feel inclined, I may in the future convey my thoughts on Water-to-Air intercoolers (with real world temperature recording no less), among other things. Also, I’ll report back on the trials and tribulations of the Terra Alps head on my Instaboost. All else fails, my sled will magically reappear as a 2017 174” T3 w a Thing Cooker and that’s it! Big bore? Just maybe. (<-- my recommendation to the OP )

Thanks for the honest and detailed feedback.

Really liking the valuable input on both kits.