The future ?

[LennyR]

Just Recently drove from Grande Prairie to Phoenix, used $880 in regular gas , paid from $1.02 to $1.36 a litre. Diesel is substantially higher than gas all over and many places were out of diesel.
Something that shocked us once we realized what was going on , and the looked into it , was from Calgary on down thru Coutts and steady until probably Butte/Idaho Falls , we were constantly seeing the big windmill arms on trucks headed north , plus huge sections of the windmill towers. So we searched it out . Windmill arms are 100 ish feet long , 3 each, and there are 5 sections of tower for each windmill.
Google says there are presently 2 huge wind farm projects underway in southern Alberta and Montana , 87 in the Alberta one , 237 in the Montana one , that’s just in that small area.
Each arm , and each tower section had a tractor and 3 pilot vehicles .
So 324 total windmills
, 3 sections per = 972 loads plus 324 mills @3 arms each = 972 loads .
So 972 +972 = 1944 loads .

1944 tractors , plus 5832 pilot vehicles making the trip from somewhere to here, plus they all need to return !
I find these numbers to be absolutely shocking , imagine how much fuel was burnt to be able to reduce the need for fossil fuel use. Certainly created a lot of work for sure. And this is only at 2 wind farms , there are farms coming up everywhere .
Additionally I have no idea how many gallons of diesel was burnt in the preparation of each of the pads , and the construction of the windmills themselves with track hoes , cats, buggy’s concrete trucks choppers , but that also has to be a huge number.
Google says they will have a 25 ish year life expectancy but google also says because of weather , extreme wind , extreme cold , and grid issues , each windmill will be in actual production for 11-16 of those years.
Does this really make any sense ??

(my numbers are close , probably not exact ).

 

[tmo1620]

Not to mention the thousands of barrels of oil they go through to keep them operating


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[drew562]

Just Recently drove from Grande Prairie to Phoenix, used $880 in regular gas , paid from $1.02 to $1.36 a litre. Diesel is substantially higher than gas all over and many places were out of diesel.
Something that shocked us once we realized what was going on , and the looked into it , was from Calgary on down thru Coutts and steady until probably Butte/Idaho Falls , we were constantly seeing the big windmill arms on trucks headed north , plus huge sections of the windmill towers. So we searched it out . Windmill arms are 100 ish feet long , 3 each, and there are 5 sections of tower for each windmill.
Google says there are presently 2 huge wind farm projects underway in southern Alberta and Montana , 87 in the Alberta one , 237 in the Montana one , that’s just in that small area.
Each arm , and each tower section had a tractor and 3 pilot vehicles .
So 324 total windmills
, 3 sections per = 972 loads plus 324 mills @3 arms each = 972 loads .
So 972 +972 = 1944 loads .

1944 tractors , plus 5832 pilot vehicles making the trip from somewhere to here, plus they all need to return !
I find these numbers to be absolutely shocking , imagine how much fuel was burnt to be able to reduce the need for fossil fuel use. Certainly created a lot of work for sure. And this is only at 2 wind farms , there are farms coming up everywhere .
Additionally I have no idea how many gallons of diesel was burnt in the preparation of each of the pads , and the construction of the windmills themselves with track hoes , cats, buggy’s concrete trucks choppers , but that also has to be a huge number.
Google says they will have a 25 ish year life expectancy but google also says because of weather , extreme wind , extreme cold , and grid issues , each windmill will be in actual production for 11-16 of those years.
Does this really make any sense ??

(my numbers are close , probably not exact ).

When I was at the Coutts border protest. I met some guys at our hotel lounge. There’s a storage yard full of windmill parts and there was a crew there living in the hotel and their job was to keep moving parts around so it looks like they’re getting stuff done. Apparently. That was over a year ago

 

[Pistonbroke]

Was a big yard just East of Hanna looked about the same. Mega turbine parts!

 

[Merc63]

I find it hard to believe the life span is that short. The frame work is there, the internals may need work, but what’s the rest of the picture?

How much electricity is produced. Surely someone did the math before spending all this money. This is capitalism after all, not too many companies out there building wind farms to lose money and yield no return.

Calculate the amount of oil that goes into a nuclear reactor without seeing the final projections….

Look at the oil sands, the amount of fuel they burn to produce fuel, the return on the money is there.

There is no reason to be against trying to produce energy from different means. All construction has a fuel consumption, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to utilize it. The probably with governments is they’re canceling fossil fuels before they have an economical source to replace it.

 

[LennyR]

I find it hard to believe the life span is that short. The frame work is there, the internals may need work, but what’s the rest of the picture?

How much electricity is produced. Surely someone did the math before spending all this money. This is capitalism after all, not too many companies out there building wind farms to lose money and yield no return.

Calculate the amount of oil that goes into a nuclear reactor without seeing the final projections….

Look at the oil sands, the amount of fuel they burn to produce fuel, the return on the money is there.

There is no reason to be against trying to produce energy from different means. All construction has a fuel consumption, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to utilize it. The probably with governments is they’re canceling fossil fuels before they have an economical source to replace it.

I agree , mostly. But i gotta wonder how many $$$ were subsidy $ ? You know , the ”government money “ that so many say were used to fund or partially fund these projects ? And who decides Who gets them , and how. Sure seems like a lot of the recipients are not around long ?
Is it still capitalism if the $$ come from taxpayers pockets ?
Would investors or power suppliers go ahead with these projects without subsidy or incentives ? If not , why not ?
Considering the amount t of fossil fuels used to build, erect , transport, and maintain these things , would it emit the same amount of emissions if you just used fossil fuels to make the power ? Is this green energy initiative real , or is it a virtue signalling exercise that so many suggest , and a juicy situation for a chosen few ? If it lasts 25 years , that’s 13,125 gallons of oil, just to operate it , not including the vehicles and machines needed to complete the 18 oil changes , and imagine if it needs to be done every 9 months !

 

[2kDoo]

ask the people in Dawson Creek how useful the wind turbines were....Everyone hates them up here. (in Gp at moment)

 

[Merc63]

Pretty sure a lot of big power producing operations are tax subsidized, to what extent who knows.

 

[LennyR]

Pretty sure a lot of big power producing operations are tax subsidized, to what extent who knows.

Why do they get subsidies ?

 

[JayT]

Why do they get subsidies ?

Because otherwise they would never be viable.

 

[Merc63]

Look at the trans mountain, government had to take it over… huge cost overruns now, massive I think. keystone would have been substantially subsidized as well. I think the AB gov had a pile of money into the Keystone and wanted to sue Biden for canceling it… billions if I remember correctly.

Subsidizing helps these big projects get going, the government eventually gets their money back through taxes.

 

[lilduke]

Yup the government are good buisness people and know what they are doing.

Always get there money back too. That must be why canada is a trillion$ in debt

 

[retiredpop]

Wind Turbine Cost: Worth The Million-Dollar Price In 2022?

Multimillion dollar price tag? Huge wind turbine cost a good investment? Do they really pay for themselves in 2022? How much power do they produce? Answers here

weatherguardwind.com

 

[ABMax24]

What's the definition of a subsidy?

Are we talking direct cash payments, guaranteed pricing (eg. electricity pricing), tax breaks for performing certain actions (eg. orphan well program and cleanup), how about sliding tax rates based on commodity pricing (eg. Alberta's oil and gas royalty structure)?

 

[ABMax24]

Look at the trans mountain, government had to take it over… huge cost overruns now, massive I think. keystone would have been substantially subsidized as well. I think the AB gov had a pile of money into the Keystone and wanted to sue Biden for canceling it… billions if I remember correctly.

Subsidizing helps these big projects get going, the government eventually gets their money back through taxes.

That's a different can of worms. Governments now have to subsidize these projects because no investor wants to sit on billions of dollars for a decade while the Federal Government "decides" whether these projects can proceed or not.

Take the Trans Mountain Expansion "TMX" for example, it was first proposed in 2013 at an estimated cost of $7.4 billion, finally received approval in 2019, and is expected to be completed in Q3 of 2023 at a cost of $21.4 billion. This is the cost of doing business in Canada with overly bureaucratic governments. To quote Pierre "remove the gatekeepers" and let the people do their jobs.

 

[LennyR]

What's the definition of a subsidy?

Are we talking direct cash payments, guaranteed pricing (eg. electricity pricing), tax breaks for performing certain actions (eg. orphan well program and cleanup), how about sliding tax rates based on commodity pricing (eg. Alberta's oil and gas royalty structure)?

Why not let stay the hell out of it , devote taxpayers dollars to programs that directly benefit taxpayers, not like there are no problems with health care , child services, seniors issues, education, and other core services that are in dire need of additional funding . If there’s a market for power and a demand , let the ones who are saying it can be a money making proposition step up , build and reap the profits .

 

[ABMax24]

Why not let stay the hell out of it , devote taxpayers dollars to programs that directly benefit taxpayers, not like there are no problems with health care , child services, seniors issues, education, and other core services that are in dire need of additional funding . If there’s a market for power and a demand , let the ones who are saying it can be a money making proposition step up , build and reap the profits .

I'm fine with that, and now that the NDP are gone that's actually happening. To give the NDP credit, they did actually manage to create fixed priced contracts with renewable producers that make the government money, clearly not their goal, but it did happen.

"The Alberta government has made an estimated $160 million from the Renewable Energy Program"

“With our free market approach, there is more than $13.8 billion in generation projects currently underway, without taxpayer subsidy or royalty – including more than $4.4 billion in utility-scale renewable projects.”

Alberta made estimated $160M from Renewable Energy Program as power prices surged: U of C report

The program, introduced in 2016 under the then-NDP government, saw developers bid for contracts for projects to generate renewable energy

calgaryherald.com

 

[LennyR]

I'm fine with that, and now that the NDP are gone that's actually happening. To give the NDP credit, they did actually manage to create fixed priced contracts with renewable producers that make the government money, clearly not their goal, but it did happen.

"The Alberta government has made an estimated $160 million from the Renewable Energy Program"

“With our free market approach, there is more than $13.8 billion in generation projects currently underway, without taxpayer subsidy or royalty – including more than $4.4 billion in utility-scale renewable projects.”

Alberta made estimated $160M from Renewable Energy Program as power prices surged: U of C report

The program, introduced in 2016 under the then-NDP government, saw developers bid for contracts for projects to generate renewable energy

calgaryherald.com

That’s great , and how is that meshing with the initiative To eliminate fossil fuel emissions ? I mean after you consider the emissions produced by the construction and placement of these turbines .

 

[jhurkot]

You better drive down to those projects and show them your napkin math so they can stop before it's too late.

 

[ABMax24]

That’s great , and how is that meshing with the initiative To eliminate fossil fuel emissions ? I mean after you consider the emissions produced by the construction and placement of these turbines .

Quite well, considering they don't burn coal, natural gas or oil for the next 25 years while they generate electricity.