SW goes PAY! Better Make Some Room Here!

[Cat401]

Noooooooo.... I've only just figured out how to survive on here with the mods we already got.....

Bogger for Administrator's Assistant.......if there is such a thing.........



or maybe........hallway monitor........:d:d

 

[Cyle]

sites like this are not cheap to run and i know that Ron pulls $$$ out of his pocket each month to keep it going. where does the $$ come from if he can't continue to pay each month, tons of members means that more server upgrading has to be done. we don't have an advertising promotor to try and get more of that. can't afford to pay someone to do that.
we have always said that this would be a free site but holy crap, how much in the hole are we going to keep going without looking at another option to help with the costs. i know we don't want to make a ton of cash off everyone but it does cost money to operate. i know that if it comes down to it i will gladly pay a small yearly fee to keep us up and running.
it has not been discussed, but to hear Ron say that he had to pull money out of his pocket again because we didn't get any new advertisers again this month can only go on for so long.

The thing is to probably 90% of people who refuse to pay isn't the money, it's the point of it and how it was done. You CANNOT force people to pay to just be able to read threads and see what the site is all about. I mean having a upgraded membership for people who donate is fine and extra features, but forcing people to pay or leave is NOT a good idea. And a big part of it for me was that snowest went to hell a long time ago and was barely worth visiting before it became pay.

For example one site I visit you pay if you want to post classified adds and get some other stuff, anyone can view them, but you gotta pay to sell stuff. Seems fair to me. I would much rather see more venders, advertising ANYTHING to avoid S&M becoming pay, but I would pay for it gladly if it was needed. Snowest is doing it to flat out make money not cover costs.

 

[Puba]

How about S&M douche bag of the year there could be a real vote or poll on that one I tell ya. Just sayin....

Bogger for Administrator's Assistant.......if there is such a thing.........



or maybe........hallway monitor........:d:d

 

[DiamondDave]

The problem over there since 6/09 is the person in charge lacks vision and intelligence on how to raise capital, mainly advertising revenue. His timing on all of his great ideas and changes is/was horrible. It's still the only site that I frequent that takes 10-13 seconds to load pages. This and other sites take 1-2 seconds on comcast. But they keep repeating it must be ME.

For the last 9 months, you have newer members trying to repeat tech advice that they've read in the past and obviously not understood correctly. LMAO

 

[Murminator]

R.I.P Snowest

 

[SledMamma]

SnoWest was like the American version of good Canadian beer... watered down and frivolous. Won't miss it.

 

[jbb]

hahahaha this is all you can see over there


You have reached the limit of your Free Basic Member reading privileges. To continue reading this thread, please upgrade to Premium Member status.

i think thats the funniest thing ive seen on there yet! lmfao

 

[94fordguy]

sites like this are not cheap to run and i know that Ron pulls $$$ out of his pocket each month to keep it going. where does the $$ come from if he can't continue to pay each month, tons of members means that more server upgrading has to be done. we don't have an advertising promotor to try and get more of that. can't afford to pay someone to do that.
we have always said that this would be a free site but holy crap, how much in the hole are we going to keep going without looking at another option to help with the costs. i know we don't want to make a ton of cash off everyone but it does cost money to operate. i know that if it comes down to it i will gladly pay a small yearly fee to keep us up and running.
it has not been discussed, but to hear Ron say that he had to pull money out of his pocket again because we didn't get any new advertisers again this month can only go on for so long.

Very well said BB. With the number of sledding sites these days, advertisers have to choose where they spend their money and the forums have to work within a budget if they want to continue to exist, let alone improve. I frankly was shocked when I learned that up until the change over that Snowest was hosted on a server that was half the size of the one Ron has for this site and that that server also handled a total of 12 other websites You wanna talk about the dreaded database error, it's amazing it only happened every few days.

The community of Snowest has always been based on good principled people who love the sport of snowmobiling and have a desire to help each other out and have a good time doing it. That sentiment is no different from the people who make up the community of Snow and Mud... we all have a desire to come to a place to help each other out and have a laugh or two.

Now there have been a couple ways that people have taken to this new venture; Some are of the positive attitude, they are more than happy to contribute to keep the lights on for all the time they have spent, regardless of just what the bottom line has been. The other attitude is to vilify the management for wanting to show some black on the bottom line. After all, it is a business and business have overhead and profit margins to consider and asking anything more than simply being able to cover your costs is now considered a crime.

Think of it as a gathering hall, a place to have your party. With the advertisers money, the tables get cleared and the floors get swept, but at the end of the night, wheres the money to fix the roof or buff the floors? With the hall filled to capacity every night, the floors are going to be needing a good refinishing after a while to stay attractive, should the owner have to fork out what little profit he may have made to keep it going, ultimately putting himself into the red (or perhaps not very far from it)?

Should the day come down when S&M needed financial support to be able to offer its space to the people without taking a chunk out of Ron's wallet, I would be happy to contribute, even to make the guy a little money for the time and effort he has put forward with the countless hours making this place the best it can be.

Nothing is free forever... just look at TV... you used to be able to get it on your roof-top for free, today, do you pay for it... do you have satellite or cable? After all, why have you been paying for it all these years if you could get it for free?

Many of you will not agree, that is fine, that is your choice and it is yours to make. However, what is becoming is not a crime, it is not underhanded and it is not necessarily a money-grab, it is merely a sign of things to come, it is the necessary step that many businesses are going to have to take in order to survive and to be able to expand for the better. Snowest, just like Snow and Mud, are providing the place to gather, it is up to you what you make of it and just what you are willing to contribute. I am proud to be a member of Snow and Mud and a paying member of Snowest, I know I get so much good information and friendships in return for giving what help I can, whats a minor monetary contribution on top of that?

I don't change allegiances the second you start asking for a minor fee, I have not done it when Snowest asked for it and I will not come the day that Snow and Mud asks for it, the gains and the friendships are simply too high to walk away from.

 

[steveo10]

*** news flash ***

Ron just bought a small island off of Mexico due to some unforseen income.

welcome all transplants, dont make it into slowest

 

[Alberta Boy]

it has not been discussed, but to hear Ron say that he had to pull money out of his pocket again because we didn't get any new advertisers again this month can only go on for so long.

I think that Ron should be getting a few sponsor phone calls soon with SWest's membership drops to an alltime new low! I would be making some phone calls if I was Ron... NOW is the time for sponsors to get a good deal here at S&M! Once a whack of people come here, the rates for sponsors should go up... get in now while there is still a good deal to be had!

PS Sponsors pay to be where the key people are... they won't be at SW for long!

 

[dirtball08]

Got the email the other night. In it says their membership has actually increased since going to pay. I don't see how but whatever. I wil not be one who is going to give them a cent. Who needs to go their, when everything you need is right here. Thanks Ron.

 

[Red Mtn Riders]

Very well said BB. With the number of sledding sites these days, advertisers have to choose where they spend their money and the forums have to work within a budget if they want to continue to exist, let alone improve. I frankly was shocked when I learned that up until the change over that Snowest was hosted on a server that was half the size of the one Ron has for this site and that that server also handled a total of 12 other websites You wanna talk about the dreaded database error, it's amazing it only happened every few days.

OK, there is a bit of a contradiction there. Ron already has twice the server space and it is dedicated to much less than 12 websites. That would lead me to believe a major upgrade in expensive equipment isn't exactly imminent at this point. Lets not create a crisis where none exists.

The community of Snowest has always been based on good principled people who love the sport of snowmobiling and have a desire to help each other out and have a good time doing it. That sentiment is no different from the people who make up the community of Snow and Mud... we all have a desire to come to a place to help each other out and have a laugh or two.

Now there have been a couple ways that people have taken to this new venture; Some are of the positive attitude, they are more than happy to contribute to keep the lights on for all the time they have spent, regardless of just what the bottom line has been. The other attitude is to vilify the management for wanting to show some black on the bottom line. After all, it is a business and business have overhead and profit margins to consider and asking anything more than simply being able to cover your costs is now considered a crime.

I think you have misinterpreted the uproar at SW. I am not sure how as it was stated hundreds if not thousands of times over there recently. In order to attract the crowd that has the quality information, access needs to be easy and free. I am not a huge technical contributor on snowmobile forums, my expertise lies elsewhere. I am not going to pay to give advice though, period. That is where we run into a problem. SW is forcing people to pay and that is the wrong model. I assure you, if you have paid there, you will see the effects very soon. The quality of content is going to go into the toilet because of the policies put in place.

The vast majority of sledders know black ink is preferable to red. Lots of self employed tradesmen here. I do not begrudge anyone trying to make a buck for working. Profit is GOOD, I think 99% agree with this.

Bringing money in isn't as complex as you make it sound. I would volunteer some of my time to contact potential advertisers, I suspect lots of others here would also volunteer time to raise revenues if that is what needs to happen. The other possibility is a premium membership. Lots of guys, like me, who take more than they give to a site like this, would gladly pay. The problem was the forced paying of all. There is more than one way to skin the cat for sure. Lets explore some better ideas first.

Think of it as a gathering hall, a place to have your party. With the advertisers money, the tables get cleared and the floors get swept, but at the end of the night, wheres the money to fix the roof or buff the floors? With the hall filled to capacity every night, the floors are going to be needing a good refinishing after a while to stay attractive, should the owner have to fork out what little profit he may have made to keep it going, ultimately putting himself into the red (or perhaps not very far from it)?

Should the day come down when S&M needed financial support to be able to offer its space to the people without taking a chunk out of Ron's wallet, I would be happy to contribute, even to make the guy a little money for the time and effort he has put forward with the countless hours making this place the best it can be.

Agreed, I am suggesting we look for a different avenue than SW took however. That looks to have become a fairly large scale disaster.

Nothing is free forever... just look at TV... you used to be able to get it on your roof-top for free, today, do you pay for it... do you have satellite or cable? After all, why have you been paying for it all these years if you could get it for free?

No offense, but simply accepting a crappy outcome doesn't seem like the American way to me. I am certain there are ways to make this work other than accepting a poor outcome because we are too complacent to look at other options. I personally despise TV these days. I am now paying to watch more commercials than ever. I DVR the shows I want to watch and then skip the ads. About the only thing I watch anymore is Top Gear, those guys are a hoot!

Many of you will not agree, that is fine, that is your choice and it is yours to make. However, what is becoming is not a crime, it is not underhanded and it is not necessarily a money-grab, it is merely a sign of things to come, it is the necessary step that many businesses are going to have to take in order to survive and to be able to expand for the better. Snowest, just like Snow and Mud, are providing the place to gather, it is up to you what you make of it and just what you are willing to contribute. I am proud to be a member of Snow and Mud and a paying member of Snowest, I know I get so much good information and friendships in return for giving what help I can, whats a minor monetary contribution on top of that?

I would disagree. SW was an unabashed money grab. The more you know about the behind the scenes dealings of the new administrator over there, the more obvious it becomes. That man is only a sledder to make himself look palatable. His current and former business dealings stink to high heaven. The notion that people left SW without being very well informed of what was going on is false. I think it runs much deeper than you seem to know. I was not giving that man my money on principle. That is where the money is going too, in his pockets.

We all want a place to gather, and like I stated earlier, you may be very surprised at the resources availible here without asking contributors for a dime. I would rather go down that road first. Maybe I am wrong and the SW model is the only viable one. I just do not happen to buy that right now.

I don't change allegiances the second you start asking for a minor fee, I have not done it when Snowest asked for it and I will not come the day that Snow and Mud asks for it, the gains and the friendships are simply too high to walk away from.

No offense intended but I think SW suckered you into paying by using lots of feel good, do good propoganda. As I stated earlier, some investigation into the actual circumstances revealed to me a different motive. You allegience should be more to the community not the host. The community can feed the host but forcibly extohrting the community for gain and claiming it is for the greater good was very dishonest. I personally choose not to deal with the dishonest when possible. Let your own conscience be your guide.

 

[Bogger]

You allegience should be more to the community not the host. The community can feed the host but forcibly extohrting the community for gain and claiming it is for the greater good was very dishonest. I personally choose not to deal with the dishonest when possible. Let your own conscience be your guide.

Hmmmmmm..... Sounds an aweful lot like organized religion

 

[Modman]

So how about this then, why don't those that wish to help out try and assist with recruiting a vendor to advertise on the site. If everyone here tries to drum up one supporting vendor to advertise that would help out allot. And those that wish to make a personal financial donation (those that can afford it or want to) make one. It's kind of paying it forward so we can all have fun on the site without having to become a pay per use site and we all help Ron with his dream of keeping this site open to all. Personally, I for one would make a financial contribution to a cause like that. :d

Just for the record - I have no problem paying to access a site. I realize there are costs involved. If Ron was losing money at this, I would hope he would tell us and I think there would be a lot of people willing to help out, myself included.

My comment is simply this - Just be up front to the site users. If you want (or need) to make upgrades that are going to cost $$$, and these are the result of increased users or are upgrades that users requested and will now cost more $$ to run the site, ask the users IN ADVANCE if this is something they really want because they are going to have to pay for it once installed. The answer will be Yes or No. Would it be nice to have pretty pink flower borders around the avatars?? Sure, I like pink:d. Would it be something I want to pay $10 a month for? No. So I will live without it. LOL

If the site started taking 2 mins to load a page because of lack of servers and increased users, and Ron told us he was going to upgrade the servers and it would cost $30/year, or we could deal with the slow site, I would gladly pay the $30. Its all about being honest with the user. That's all the users were asking for at SW. Never happened though, so I left.

 

[Bogger]

S&M does cost Ron out of pocket..... this I know.... But not nearly as much as his sled/quad/truck........Bwahahahahahahaha


Sorry RK but you break a lot of chit........:d

 

[Scrambled]

I personaly never spent much time over there but its like a crack dealer,they give it to ya free till your hooked then they start to charge and keep raising the price.One thought I have is to hold Jamborees or pokerruns to suport S&M,if it was done with volunteer help and money raised went to the site it would be a win win situation,or set up a donation box,Ill gladly throw some in now and then,but force me to pay and I might leave,ya right Im already addicted,Id have to go to Rehab.:d

 

[SledMamma]

I personaly never spent much time over there but its like a crack dealer,they give it to ya free till your hooked then they start to charge and keep raising the price.One thought I have is to hold Jamborees or pokerruns to suport S&M,if it was done with volunteer help and money raised went to the site it would be a win win situation,or set up a donation box,Ill gladly throw some in now and then,but force me to pay and I might leave,ya right Im already addicted,Id have to go to Rehab.:d

I'd gladly pay to stay on S&M... but I don't appreciate all the sneaky little "quietly changed this" and "quietly changed that" bull over at SnoWest. And, the two times I did go over there, I got a virus warning... no thanks!!

 

[bbtoys]

Just for the record - I have no problem paying to access a site. I realize there are costs involved. If Ron was losing money at this, I would hope he would tell us and I think there would be a lot of people willing to help out, myself included.

My comment is simply this - Just be up front to the site users. If you want (or need) to make upgrades that are going to cost $$$, and these are the result of increased users or are upgrades that users requested and will now cost more $$ to run the site, ask the users IN ADVANCE if this is something they really want because they are going to have to pay for it once installed. The answer will be Yes or No. Would it be nice to have pretty pink flower borders around the avatars?? Sure, I like pink:d. Would it be something I want to pay $10 a month for? No. So I will live without it. LOL

If the site started taking 2 mins to load a page because of lack of servers and increased users, and Ron told us he was going to upgrade the servers and it would cost $30/year, or we could deal with the slow site, I would gladly pay the $30. Its all about being honest with the user. That's all the users were asking for at SW. Never happened though, so I left.

many upgrades have already been done, hence the extra $$$ out of pocket already. I like the idea of getting more advertisers but I know that most of us mods are already over taxed with a work load. would take all the outside help we could get in this department.

 

[Bogger]

many upgrades have already been done, hence the extra $$$ out of pocket already. I like the idea of getting more advertisers but I know that most of us mods are already over taxed with a work load. would take all the outside help we could get in this department.

I'll help mod.................


















































J/K

 

[Trinity Taz]

I am the owner of Between the Lines Designs, LLC, manufacturer of the Slidekicks, Quick clickers, and Electro-boost snowmobile products.
Until recently, we advertised exclusively on snowest.com and were great friends with Dean Cowley, our snowest advertising manager. We gladly paid $250 a month per random flash ad year round because that was where the western snowmobiling public was at the time. Advice was free and plentiful, and I cant tell you how many times I got a kick out of shooting posts back and forth with fellow snowesters.
Well, someone got greedy at snowest and they subtly started adding more and more crap...some of it was nice but all unneeded and it slowed down the site terribly. Just about that time I started wondering if they were putting a new paint job on the site to get ready to sell it. So, being genuinely concerned, I sent a civilized, friendly, non asserting note to Dean Cowley to voice my concerns.
I recieved a reply from someone I didn't even know who was suspiciously using Dean's name, face and voice, but it certainly wasn't the Dean Cowley I knew. This "imposter" replied that they were totally unconcerned about my fears and that they would continue on their own course no matter what. (read: shove it up your a$$).
Whithin 24 hours of the reply, our ad had been jerked from snowest.com, no notice or refund for the remainder of the year. Nothing. they will not return our calls or messages and will do nothing to correct the issue.

Long story short, from experience of course...

I would STRONGLY ENCOURAGE anyone who wants to do business with snowest to bring a condom and a bucket of vaseline, and no, the condom is not for you!