Summit 1000?

[Cyle]

if your come to blue river ever next year, i will show you how my stock 800 will hang with your 1000

I've already tested them side by side a lot :d Different rider makes a difference anyways. Besides your like 15, i'd probably got like 150lbs weight on you alone

 

[Modman]

Umm considering stock is low 170's, with my current mods i'm pushing high 170's, won't take much to top 200, and as I said hope to be over 200, it might hit 190 or 195, dunno. Not a chance will I run nitrous or big bore either. A big bore would be pushing a lot more then right at 200.

Just pipes, can, boondocker control box, pods, and a few other goodies.

It WAS 71 lbs heavier stock, don't worry i've already made up a LOT and doing more. Haven't decieded yet though, if I go to 174", I don't give a crap about trying to loose more weight. I pack heavy, and i'm 285 myself, weight isn't exactly my biggest concern, my pack is probably 40lbs+-.

Doing the math, ready to ride the 1000 is about 600lbs? So what 11% more weight? Lets say the 800 is 150 (generous), and the 1000 is 170. That's about 16% HP increase and that's moderate, I bet it's more then that.

What current mods do you think are making you hit high 170's? Stock is a lot less than low 170's, try around the 165ish mark tops, so using Ski Doo's pre-production HP ratings as your baseline is skewing your results. Good luck hitting 200 HP "easy" with those mods. If the box and pipes are good for 20 HP, that's all you get unless you are shaving the head etc etc. Can and pods aren't going to give you jack - maybe 2 more HP. I would say your guess of 190 might be closer, but I wouldn't put it past about 185. Just because someone on DooTalk said it one time, doesn't mean its true. How peaky is your motor going to be with those pipes and while your peak HP may go up, your cumulative HP (the range that really matters) may go down. For sleds with a CVT, I would rather have a sled with 170 HP over 900 rpm, than a sled that peaks quickly and falls off even faster, but hits 180 HP. Your clutching will be far more efficient if your target is a 800-900 rpm range compared to a 200 rpm range.

A lot of people don't want to hear it but...the aftermarket guys make a lot of $$$ selling us products that advertise big HP. Sure they can show you dyno #'s, but it don't mean jack unless you look at the motor temp and pipe temp, fuel values and what curve and for how long it made that certain HP. An reputable dyno sheet will have these things, not just one # and saying "our product made 10 HP over stock". Yeah where did it make that 10 HP, 14,000 rpm? The more they hype, the more they sell.

And just like everyone else out there, it's easy for us all to use "internet HP" ratings, but in all reality, the real world HP figures that you will see from an engine etc are far lower than most people want to realize. It's easy to make the claim that my sled has "XXX" HP, but most guys won't take it to a dyno because they are afraid that it won't make as much as they told their buddies it did. Or the excuse of "well I took it there but it made 20 HP less than what I wanted, but so and so dyno guy doesn't know how to run his dyno" Its amazing how many excuses there are.

We dyno'd a "stock" 800 making 141 HP, way less than it was alleged to be making by the engine builder. But wouldn't ya know it, that little 141 HP 800 would beat the piss out of 900's and 1000's, who made lots of parking lot claims they were pushing 180+ HP, but had never been on the dyno. Imagine that?? Now how does a 141 HP sled beat a 180 HP sled, unless one of them isn't making as much power as it thinks it is? We know how much HP the 800 was making......

Walk softly and carry a big stick. That's why I ride a 440 that only makes 65 HP, wanna race?

 

[j.c.higgins]

Well said!!

 

[POWDERCHOWDER]

I second that i know guys who ride them, they don't stand a chance up against a rev r xp stock for stock. Bonndocken the are even worse. You could 'ent pay me to ride one.

 

[Metalfusion]

We have had both. Brother rode his wifes 07 800R 159" one day and I was riding my RT 1000 162". 800 was deffanently more nimble and would lay over easier. Good for boondocking and had good power for climbing. The RT is harder to layover at slow speeds but in the deep it was great. Climbing power on the RT holds RPM longer because of the better torque allowing it to pull easier but there wasnt a huge difference on short pulls.

Personally I think they are both good rides with the same realiability if you dont get into big mods.

All depends on what your more comfortable on.

 

[Cyle]

What current mods do you think are making you hit high 170's? Stock is a lot less than low 170's, try around the 165ish mark tops, so using Ski Doo's pre-production HP ratings as your baseline is skewing your results. Good luck hitting 200 HP "easy" with those mods. If the box and pipes are good for 20 HP, that's all you get unless you are shaving the head etc etc. Can and pods aren't going to give you jack - maybe 2 more HP. I would say your guess of 190 might be closer, but I wouldn't put it past about 185. Just because someone on DooTalk said it one time, doesn't mean its true. How peaky is your motor going to be with those pipes and while your peak HP may go up, your cumulative HP (the range that really matters) may go down. For sleds with a CVT, I would rather have a sled with 170 HP over 900 rpm, than a sled that peaks quickly and falls off even faster, but hits 180 HP. Your clutching will be far more efficient if your target is a 800-900 rpm range compared to a 200 rpm range.

A lot of people don't want to hear it but...the aftermarket guys make a lot of $$$ selling us products that advertise big HP. Sure they can show you dyno #'s, but it don't mean jack unless you look at the motor temp and pipe temp, fuel values and what curve and for how long it made that certain HP. An reputable dyno sheet will have these things, not just one # and saying "our product made 10 HP over stock". Yeah where did it make that 10 HP, 14,000 rpm? The more they hype, the more they sell.

And just like everyone else out there, it's easy for us all to use "internet HP" ratings, but in all reality, the real world HP figures that you will see from an engine etc are far lower than most people want to realize. It's easy to make the claim that my sled has "XXX" HP, but most guys won't take it to a dyno because they are afraid that it won't make as much as they told their buddies it did. Or the excuse of "well I took it there but it made 20 HP less than what I wanted, but so and so dyno guy doesn't know how to run his dyno" Its amazing how many excuses there are.

We dyno'd a "stock" 800 making 141 HP, way less than it was alleged to be making by the engine builder. But wouldn't ya know it, that little 141 HP 800 would beat the piss out of 900's and 1000's, who made lots of parking lot claims they were pushing 180+ HP, but had never been on the dyno. Imagine that?? Now how does a 141 HP sled beat a 180 HP sled, unless one of them isn't making as much power as it thinks it is? We know how much HP the 800 was making......

Walk softly and carry a big stick. That's why I ride a 440 that only makes 65 HP, wanna race?

Exactly why I said I was guessing and roughly. I have looked into numerous different people who have dynoed theres stock to be low 170's, everyone is claiming right around the same number, I gotta believe it is pretty close. I have a boondocker and can currently. I don't overly care about hp, to me it's about the extra power I can feel and use. And to me, the 1000 has it. I have yet to find a hill that has taken all the RT can put out for power. I know obviously I will, but from riding both the 800 sure feels a lot weaker, for some reason because I always find myself winding them out and needing all they got, which isn't the case on the 1000. And, from what i've seen of large dyno numbers the RT is a long ways ahead turbo'd over a 800, which has to mean something to?

Who knows, I might just find a good deal and pull the trigger on a turbo, think i'll be pushing 200hp then?

As far as riding them, my buddy noticed it over his dragon a lot but after a kingcat i'm so use to it and i'm a pretty big guy the sled goes where I want it easy.

Regardless of anything, everyone knows the rt puts out more power and i'd say chances are more % power then more % extra weight.

 

[maxwell]

there are some sweet running rt turbos. aaaand some not.

but on SW a guy on there is running one at 5 lbs and the thing rips. hes having problems keeping head gaskets in but it most likely has a warped head the turbo guru figures

 

[sledn]

The RT's have tons of power,but ask any ex owner---couldn't pay me to ride it all day after owning an XP.All the mods in the world can't make it as fun to ride(Tank).

 

[CUSO]

The RT's have tons of power,but ask any ex owner---couldn't pay me to ride it all day after owning an XP.All the mods in the world can't make it as fun to ride(Tank).

I was wondering when you would chime in Steve..HAHA

 

[Summitric]

I've driven lotsa xp's, revs and rt's and nothing pulls like the rt. I'm a big guy and have no problems with the rt handling. I have an '04 rev with some mods and it's nothing compared to the torque the rt has. If you think it does, you're kidding yourself. With proper tuning, head, air intake system, reeds, single pipe and proper program, yes you will be upwards of 190hp easily, and with twin pipes tuned properly you will be over 200hp. I've seen it on mots dyno. Just sayin'.

We've had many a climbing competition, where the best rider in the group takes his juiced sled(rt) and several xp's in different stages of mod, and several revs, and the rt on the longer steep climbs still outdoes the others, and on shorter steep climbs it can be fairly close, but the rt usually gets the top mark......... Just sayin' again

 

[MtnMaster]

watched first hand 2 bone stock '06's go head to head on a 2-3 foot pow day.
800x 151, and an RT 151, The RT handed it to the 800 over and over. They even switched sleds to rule out rider skill. An 800 will not touch a 1 liter on a steep, deep, long pull. The torque of that motor just keeps that track spinning longer, faster and harder.

Go on DooTalk, talk to Lund, and tell him your 800 will spank his 1000

 

[maxwell]

lund also runs a shot of nitrous and thinks he is jesus

 

[Modman]

I've driven lotsa xp's, revs and rt's and nothing pulls like the rt. I'm a big guy and have no problems with the rt handling. I have an '04 rev with some mods and it's nothing compared to the torque the rt has. If you think it does, you're kidding yourself. With proper tuning, head, air intake system, reeds, single pipe and proper program, yes you will be upwards of 190hp easily, and with twin pipes tuned properly you will be over 200hp. I've seen it on mots dyno. Just sayin'.

We've had many a climbing competition, where the best rider in the group takes his juiced sled(rt) and several xp's in different stages of mod, and several revs, and the rt on the longer steep climbs still outdoes the others, and on shorter steep climbs it can be fairly close, but the rt usually gets the top mark......... Just sayin' again

Fair enough Ric, but as stated, I want to see a full dyno graph for any motor before I start believing any hype I read. I can build a legit 200 HP 800 cc sled too, doesn't mean it's really all that rideable for day to day stuff, sure it will make 200 HP @ 9500 rpm but the clutch engages at 6000 rpm and its only good for 660 ft because the pistons are starting to melt after that. Power is good, rideable power from a wide RPM band is even better.

 

[MtnMaster]

lund also runs a shot of nitrous and thinks he is jesus

hahaha........ maybe a little

 

[Summitric]

Fair enough Ric, but as stated, I want to see a full dyno graph for any motor before I start believing any hype I read. I can build a legit 200 HP 800 cc sled too, doesn't mean it's really all that rideable for day to day stuff, sure it will make 200 HP @ 9500 rpm but the clutch engages at 6000 rpm and its only good for 660 ft because the pistons are starting to melt after that. Power is good, rideable power from a wide RPM band is even better.

I'LL BE PRINTING MINE OUT AND POSTING ON HERE, IN THE FALL, WHEN MINE GETS "TUNED":d

 

[maxwell]

modman maybe you can clarify this for us all as im not all that familiar with dyno systems i tune by the seat of my pants haha

but every dyno and every claim sits at a differant elevation.

are all dyno results required to use a factor to compensate the rated HP to sea level?

 

[Modman]

modman maybe you can clarify this for us all as im not all that familiar with dyno systems i tune by the seat of my pants haha

but every dyno and every claim sits at a differant elevation.

are all dyno results required to use a factor to compensate the rated HP to sea level?

Yes there is a standard SAE correction factor. Things taken into consideration are absolute barometric pressure, relative barometric pressure, wet and dry bulb temps (water vapour displaces oxygen) and ambient air temp. the typical correction factor calc is:

Correction Factor = 1.18 x (29.22/Bdo) x To+460 / 537) - 0.18


Where: To is intake air temperature in degrees F. Bdo is dry ambient absolute barometric pressure ("dry air" measurement).

Corrected values have nothing to do with elevation (indirectly), it's all about the amount of oxygen the engine is breathing. *more elevation means less oxygen so I think you get where I am going with that statement* Dyno results between high humidity and low humidity days are also "corrected" using the same correction factor because more water in the air means less oxygen, etc etc.

Hope that helps.