Springs or Air bags

[Griz-L-Bar]

Hey I understand that. I have a 06 f150 tried to pull my 27' bumper pull legally weight wise nothing in the box and I would never try it again truck can't handle it comfortably but to each there own

ya well its all i got...for now have to make it work

 

[shawnmcgr]

OK then tell me why I should be scared. Everyone keeps telling me Im crazy but doesn't back it up with numbers.

I found that site and link that I posted earlier.

I entered all the information as it requested and it says Im fine for weights, so I have got facts, and numbers saying Im okay.

Im not trying to be rude or arrogant, Im young and stupid and need people ,like yourself perhaps, to share your knowledge of WHY Im not safe with facts and numbers.

Not just saying Im wrong and nuckin futs to do what I do.

So some numbers that came out of my owners manual and off the drivers door jamb sticker of a 2006 F-150 crew cab 4x4 5.5' box with 20" tires

Maximum GCRW=14500lbs(Manual)
Maximum Trailer weight=8700lbs(manual)
GAWR rear-3850lbs(Door)
GVWR-7200lbs(Door)
Actual Rear Gross Axle weight- 2338lbs(Sourced from VeHix.com)
GVW- 5500lbs(Sourced from 4x4review.com)


Now the trailer
Maximum GVWR-5900lbs
Maximum Tongue weight(Calculated)-590lbs

The quad
04 griz 660-650lbs

Anyway after all those numbers I come out with this:
Gross Axle Weight Rating rear

Tongue weight MAX(590lbs) + Quad(650lbs) + RGAW(2338lbs) = 3578lbs
GAWR Rear(3850lbs) - 3578lbs = 272lbs on the safe side of my Maximum rear axle weight

GVWR is not really used( I think) when talking about trailers as it refers to only the truck.

Gross Combined Weight Rating

GVW(truck)5500lbs + GVW(tralier) Maximum 5900lbs + Quad 650lbs + Others 500lbs = 12550lbs

GCWR 14500lbs -12550lbs = 1950lbs on the safe side of GCWR

Now you will notice that I used the maximum GVW of the trailer as stated on the yellow sticker on the side of it.

Please some one tell me what or if Im not figureing something right. I know I used some Numbers that are not directly off my truck, but I think that everything here would be withing 50lbs-100lbs of being accurate. I Im going to take these numbers to my Insurance agent( who happens to me be a neighbour) and have him go over them and see if he would still insure me if something was to happen. And I will post back here when he lets me know either way.

I don't want to be running an unsafe rig, or have people thing Im an A hole I just want the RIGHT answer and if you can't provide me with logical numbers and facts I dont want to read it.

Don't try to justify your $60,000 1 ton was needed when I pull the same chit with my 1/2 ton and Im still legit.

You need to also consider GVWR. Your at it without genny:
Truck: 5500 lbs
Trailer: 590 lbs (assuming it's loaded to keep tongue weight less than 10%)
Passengers: 350 lbs (200+150lbs for the wifee)
Quad: 660 lbs

Total: 7100lbs

That leaves 100lbs for any other crap in your truck.

If you load the trailer front heavy and it's actually @ 15% (another 295lbs) your over. Also I'd get actual weights, as recommended above - you have made a lot of assumptions.

I'm willing to bet if you actually scale it your overweight. You don't have to make a big production out of it, just roll through one of the unattended scales the next time your out camping and weight each truck and trailer axle.

Lots of folks run around slightly over loaded, I'm not saying it's ok but it's good to know your pushing the limits and should be driving on the cautious side.

I started out pulling a travel trailer with an overloaded 1/2ton...stepped up to a 2500 and what an improvement - might have saved my marrige :d

 

[kbrunlees]

IMO airbags, add-a-leaf, overloads, don't mean a thing....just because it can pull it doesn't mean it should. You see the aftermath of too little truck/suv pulling too big a trailer all the time on youtube. All those load levellers are not going to help when that trailer wants to go the opposite way the truck is going. BTW ALLtrucks will sag under weight, that is the way they are designed...it's for the cushy ride some folks want when not carrying a load. One member here suggested going to the scale and getting it weighed, abso-freakin-lutely. I took my old truck and trailer combo to the scale and it was suggested that my truck was too small for the trailer(trailer was completely loaded, and had the quad in the box as well). I took the advise, bought a 3/4 ton and a world of difference. Some say I am over kill, I say I am safe!! :d Just MY 2 cents worth!!

I'm with you on this one. I did the same thing bought a 3/4 ton cuz the 1/2 ton don't cut it safety wise.

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

At least we are getting closer, will get weights and post back specifics hopefully within the next couple of days.

But at the start of all this there was people saying you could barely hook onto a car hauler trailer with 1/2 ton and that by itself would put you over weight. I hope I have proved that you can pull more than a wheelbarrow with a 1/2 ton.

As I said I will post weights fully loaded as soon as I get them with all equipment,water,gas, genny, every frickin thing and see where Iam over if I am at all. Yes I maybe pushing the limits but only the weighed numbers will tell.

I find it hard to believe(haven't looked into it yet) that people with 35' plus toyhaulers, 3 slides, 80 gallon fresh water, 30 gallon fuel tanks, generator, two quads, 4 people in the truck, and all the other crap you can cram in there are legal pulling it with a 1 ton single axle truck. Not sure like I said but fairly confident they are way past the limit of that truck, but nobody cares because it a 1 ton and thats the biggest truck you can get...wrong. 4500 5500 hell even a fl 60, fl 80, are more capable.

Like you said everybody seems to run things right to the line now, so why are just the 1/2 tone guys getting all the chit. some people should look in the mirror.

 

[shawnmcgr]

At least we are getting closer, will get weights and post back specifics hopefully within the next couple of days.

But at the start of all this there was people saying you could barely hook onto a car hauler trailer with 1/2 ton and that by itself would put you over weight. I hope I have proved that you can pull more than a wheelbarrow with a 1/2 ton.

As I said I will post weights fully loaded as soon as I get them with all equipment,water,gas, genny, every frickin thing and see where Iam over if I am at all. Yes I maybe pushing the limits but only the weighed numbers will tell.

I find it hard to believe(haven't looked into it yet) that people with 35' plus toyhaulers, 3 slides, 80 gallon fresh water, 30 gallon fuel tanks, generator, two quads, 4 people in the truck, and all the other crap you can cram in there are legal pulling it with a 1 ton single axle truck. Not sure like I said but fairly confident they are way past the limit of that truck, but nobody cares because it a 1 ton and thats the biggest truck you can get...wrong. 4500 5500 hell even a fl 60, fl 80, are more capable.

Like you said everybody seems to run things right to the line now, so why are just the 1/2 tone guys getting all the chit. some people should look in the mirror.

Not all half tons are created equal. You really have to understand the ratings. I had a 2003 1500 Chev ext cab short box w/ a 5.3lt. With myself, a full tank of gas and a tool box in the box (lightly loaded with tow straps and other essentials) I had 500lbs of payload left. I thought WTF what a piece of crap. It also only got 15mpg going down the highway @ 100kms empty. Glad to get ride of that piece! Ya, they made 1/2tons that crappy....mini vans had more payload than this pick-up, really. That's probably why guys get a hard time about putting anything heavier than groceries in a 1/2ton. They don't all suck as bad as that truck...

At the time Ford was making heavy halfs or 1/2tons with camper packages that had 3/4 ton payload, you might have something like this.

Sounds like you on the right path to understanding the ratings. Take it easy and enjoy the camping!

Oh, ya, I admit I have had my 2500 overloaded at times. I hate doing it but sometimes it's hard to say no to one more toy!

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

Not all half tons are created equal. You really have to understand the ratings. I had a 2003 1500 Chev ext cab short box w/ a 5.3lt. With myself, a full tank of gas and a tool box in the box (lightly loaded with tow straps and other essentials) I had 500lbs of payload left. I thought WTF what a piece of crap. It also only got 15mpg going down the highway @ 100kms empty. Glad to get ride of that piece! Ya, they made 1/2tons that crappy....mini vans had more payload than this pick-up, really. That's probably why guys get a hard time about putting anything heavier than groceries in a 1/2ton. They don't all suck as bad as that truck...

At the time Ford was making heavy halfs or 1/2tons with camper packages that had 3/4 ton payload, you might have something like this.

Sounds like you on the right path to understanding the ratings. Take it easy and enjoy the camping!

Oh, ya, I admit I have had my 2500 overloaded at times. I hate doing it but sometimes it's hard to say no to one more toy!

Yes some 1/2 t do not come with a tow package which is needed to haul anything more than milk.

And yes he is still wrong always. and hell ya I want another toy to she can be 5'1, 105lbs....... ahaha

 

[bigz64]

At least we are getting closer, will get weights and post back specifics hopefully within the next couple of days.

But at the start of all this there was people saying you could barely hook onto a car hauler trailer with 1/2 ton and that by itself would put you over weight. I hope I have proved that you can pull more than a wheelbarrow with a 1/2 ton.

As I said I will post weights fully loaded as soon as I get them with all equipment,water,gas, genny, every frickin thing and see where Iam over if I am at all. Yes I maybe pushing the limits but only the weighed numbers will tell.

I find it hard to believe(haven't looked into it yet) that people with 35' plus toyhaulers, 3 slides, 80 gallon fresh water, 30 gallon fuel tanks, generator, two quads, 4 people in the truck, and all the other crap you can cram in there are legal pulling it with a 1 ton single axle truck. Not sure like I said but fairly confident they are way past the limit of that truck, but nobody cares because it a 1 ton and thats the biggest truck you can get...wrong. 4500 5500 hell even a fl 60, fl 80, are more capable.

Like you said everybody seems to run things right to the line now, so why are just the 1/2 tone guys getting all the chit. some people should look in the mirror.

a lot of people on here just attacked someone with a 1/4 ton with the same type of setup, just a smaller trailer and 2 dirt bikes. they were just asking opinions and people were not nice about it

i also went with a 3/4 ton, and 1/2 capable travel trailer and 2 quads. opted for the lighter trailer so i can take 2 quads. and im close too

 

[Longhorn]

a lot of people on here just attacked someone with a 1/4 ton with the same type of setup, just a smaller trailer and 2 dirt bikes. they were just asking opinions and people were not nice about it

i also went with a 3/4 ton, and 1/2 capable travel trailer and 2 quads. opted for the lighter trailer so i can take 2 quads. and im close too

To clarify (re: the 1/4 ton post)...an opinion was asked for...opinions were given...those opinions were not listened to and then subsequently argued...Many clarified those opinions to make them easier to understand, and they still were ingnored and then argued...

Apples and coconuts...

 

[Cyle]

At least we are getting closer, will get weights and post back specifics hopefully within the next couple of days.

But at the start of all this there was people saying you could barely hook onto a car hauler trailer with 1/2 ton and that by itself would put you over weight. I hope I have proved that you can pull more than a wheelbarrow with a 1/2 ton.

As I said I will post weights fully loaded as soon as I get them with all equipment,water,gas, genny, every frickin thing and see where Iam over if I am at all. Yes I maybe pushing the limits but only the weighed numbers will tell.

I find it hard to believe(haven't looked into it yet) that people with 35' plus toyhaulers, 3 slides, 80 gallon fresh water, 30 gallon fuel tanks, generator, two quads, 4 people in the truck, and all the other crap you can cram in there are legal pulling it with a 1 ton single axle truck. Not sure like I said but fairly confident they are way past the limit of that truck, but nobody cares because it a 1 ton and thats the biggest truck you can get...wrong. 4500 5500 hell even a fl 60, fl 80, are more capable.

Like you said everybody seems to run things right to the line now, so why are just the 1/2 tone guys getting all the chit. some people should look in the mirror.

Just look at how much more a 1 ton weights, it can handle a lot more. Plus, look at a lot of the parts compared to a half ton, it is made to haul a lot more by the way it's built. Even just simply put 2000lbs of something in the box of a half ton, see how it does. Any bets a 1 ton will take 4000-4500lbs and handle as good if not better then the half ton.

I will say i've been over on my 1 ton before. But a lot of it is common sense. I'd put an extra 500lbs in the box long before i'd pull a 5000lbs trailer to heavy and have 500lbs over on the truck to. I mean if your going across town compared to cross country it means a lot to.

 

[dodgeguy]

Just look at how much more a 1 ton weights, it can handle a lot more. Plus, look at a lot of the parts compared to a half ton, it is made to haul a lot more by the way it's built. Even just simply put 2000lbs of something in the box of a half ton, see how it does. Any bets a 1 ton will take 4000-4500lbs and handle as good if not better then the half ton.

I will say i've been over on my 1 ton before. But a lot of it is common sense. I'd put an extra 500lbs in the box long before i'd pull a 5000lbs trailer to heavy and have 500lbs over on the truck to. I mean if your going across town compared to cross country it means a lot to.

I do agree with what your sayin Cyle.

My views are to get a truck that levels nicely with the desired load (payload, and towing) Seriously I couldn't really care less about tow ratings, as those are just friggin advertising ploys to sell trucks. I have had those load leveling devices on other vehicles but honestly it was just an excuse I told myself so I could feel better towing/hauling with a rig I knew deep down MAY not be enough! Have towed with trucks from Dakota's to 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons and 1 tons. 3/4 ton is perfect for my situation right now. And after having the stability of that suspension under the load, will never look at anything less again......Just my opinion!!:d

 

[Longhorn]

I love these threads...

 

[dodgeguy]

I love these threads...

Same....LOL:d

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

Just look at how much more a 1 ton weights, it can handle a lot more. Plus, look at a lot of the parts compared to a half ton, it is made to haul a lot more by the way it's built. Even just simply put 2000lbs of something in the box of a half ton, see how it does. Any bets a 1 ton will take 4000-4500lbs and handle as good if not better then the half ton.

I will say i've been over on my 1 ton before. But a lot of it is common sense. I'd put an extra 500lbs in the box long before i'd pull a 5000lbs trailer to heavy and have 500lbs over on the truck to. I mean if your going across town compared to cross country it means a lot to.

Ya the trailer is not to heavy for the truck as I said a long time ago it pulls straight as an arrow at 110km/h. And yes weights do matter cycle as any DOT will tell you, refering to your class 1 thread. And as far as me being over I have yet to get some exact numbers but Im willing to bet Im going to be just a little over, which is no worse than you... according to you. And in any case I take the quad out and Im well under every single parameter, which is what this thread was originally about, Pulling a trailer with a half ton.

And no the truck does not sway, and does not sag, and as for load leveling devices they are designed and enginered to give you better handling, safer steering, and overall more comfortable ride on ANY SIZE truck. It is not some redneck in his backyard getting creative with a case beer under his arm.

"Why is that some people can be proven wrong and never be wrong?"
Quote Unknown

 

[Cyle]

Ya the trailer is not to heavy for the truck as I said a long time ago it pulls straight as an arrow at 110km/h. And yes weights do matter cycle as any DOT will tell you, refering to your class 1 thread. And as far as me being over I have yet to get some exact numbers but Im willing to bet Im going to be just a little over, which is no worse than you... according to you. And in any case I take the quad out and Im well under every single parameter, which is what this thread was originally about, Pulling a trailer with a half ton.

And no the truck does not sway, and does not sag, and as for load leveling devices they are designed and enginered to give you better handling, safer steering, and overall more comfortable ride on ANY SIZE truck. It is not some redneck in his backyard getting creative with a case beer under his arm.

"Why is that some people can be proven wrong and never be wrong?"
Quote Unknown

I was still legal, just over the GVW on the door sticker. GVW on a 1 ton is limited by stock tires. Once you bump it up your safe and legal to go higher, a dually over a SRW is an extra 2000lbs I believe and the only difference is the leaf pack, wider axle (NOT heavier) and obviously 2 extra tires. I would never dream of exceeding tire, axle or any real weights like that. I was at 11,000lbs, door sticker is 10,000lbs but a dually is 12,000lbs so I was legal.

And just because you think a vehicle can handle it, or handles fine means nothing. Do your numbers, if your legal great, if not then your not very safe.....

And if a truck needs something in the rear to make it safe to drive with a load/trailer, it's to heavy. They are designed to help a vehicle that is ALREADY safe, and make it even better. Like my 1 ton with 12,000lb bumper pull trailer and roughly 500lbs in the box sits down about 4-5" and the rear is noticably lower then the front. But it still handles it fine and is legal. Air bags added will just make things a bit nicer.

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

I was still legal, just over the GVW on the door sticker. GVW on a 1 ton is limited by stock tires. Once you bump it up your safe and legal to go higher, a dually over a SRW is an extra 2000lbs I believe and the only difference is the leaf pack, wider axle (NOT heavier) and obviously 2 extra tires. I would never dream of exceeding tire, axle or any real weights like that. I was at 11,000lbs, door sticker is 10,000lbs but a dually is 12,000lbs so I was legal.

And just because you think a vehicle can handle it, or handles fine means nothing. Do your numbers, if your legal great, if not then your not very safe.....

And if a truck needs something in the rear to make it safe to drive with a load/trailer, it's to heavy. They are designed to help a vehicle that is ALREADY safe, and make it even better. Like my 1 ton with 12,000lb bumper pull trailer and roughly 500lbs in the box sits down about 4-5" and the rear is noticably lower then the front. But it still handles it fine and is legal. Air bags added will just make things a bit nicer.

Your GVW on small pickups according to my owners manual and the link I posted earliar refers to ;
The Maximum weight that can be carried IN or ON your truck and ONLY the truck. This would include tongue weight, But NOT the total weight of the trailer

What number you would want to look at for your truck and trailer combination would be called GCWR gross combination wieght rating.

Which should be alot higher than 12,000.

You can find alot of weight info in your owners manual.

And if you are saying that the two axles on the truck together weighed 11,000lbs. Than Im calling your bluff, you are 1000lbs over weight on your truck, tires mean squat according to what everyone else says on here that is simply, another load helping device. See "Band-aid"

A manufacture has to put tires on the vehicle that are rated to carry the Maximum GVW of that specific vehicle, car,truck,suv, don't matter. This would be law suit city if they did not.

"And just because you think a vehicle can handle it, or handles fine means nothing."

and then

"But it still handles it fine "

wait so mine is not allowed to handle it fine, but yours is allowed to handle it fine....ummmmmm

Please just look at this link and enter your own numbers for fun

Understanding RV Weights

This one is good it helped me understand all of it, you can click around to the different links and find real definitions of what all abbreveations stand for.

 

[kbrunlees]

Better to have this discussion now rather then after the accident!

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

Better to have this discussion now rather then after the accident!

word

 

[Cyle]

Your GVW on small pickups according to my owners manual and the link I posted earliar refers to ;
The Maximum weight that can be carried IN or ON your truck and ONLY the truck. This would include tongue weight, But NOT the total weight of the trailer

What number you would want to look at for your truck and trailer combination would be called GCWR gross combination wieght rating.

Which should be alot higher than 12,000.

You can find alot of weight info in your owners manual.

And if you are saying that the two axles on the truck together weighed 11,000lbs. Than Im calling your bluff, you are 1000lbs over weight on your truck, tires mean squat according to what everyone else says on here that is simply, another load helping device. See "Band-aid"

A manufacture has to put tires on the vehicle that are rated to carry the Maximum GVW of that specific vehicle, car,truck,suv, don't matter. This would be law suit city if they did not.

"And just because you think a vehicle can handle it, or handles fine means nothing."

and then

"But it still handles it fine "

wait so mine is not allowed to handle it fine, but yours is allowed to handle it fine....ummmmmm

Please just look at this link and enter your own numbers for fun

Understanding RV Weights

This one is good it helped me understand all of it, you can click around to the different links and find real definitions of what all abbreveations stand for.

I know what GVW means. Yes it was up to 11,000lbs. It is no different then buying a 1500 without some upgrade that up's the GVW then adding it yourself and then your ok for that extra GVW.

I've been at the scales when DOT was there with my last truck, they didn't bat a eye at the weight. I have looked into it plenty, and I know a dually GVW is 12,000lbs, a srw is 10,000lbs the only difference is more leafs and the tires to get the extra. A lot different scenario then a half ton, where there is no way from the factory the GVW could be raised.

And where I said "handles it fine" I was referring to pulling a trailer (which is legal weight) just about how soft the suspension is on a stock 3500 and how much it sags under a normal load.

 

[Griz-L-Bar]

I know what GVW means. Yes it was up to 11,000lbs. It is no different then buying a 1500 without some upgrade that up's the GVW then adding it yourself and then your ok for that extra GVW.

I've been at the scales when DOT was there with my last truck, they didn't bat a eye at the weight. I have looked into it plenty, and I know a dually GVW is 12,000lbs, a srw is 10,000lbs the only difference is more leafs and the tires to get the extra. A lot different scenario then a half ton, where there is no way from the factory the GVW could be raised.

And where I said "handles it fine" I was referring to pulling a trailer (which is legal weight) just about how soft the suspension is on a stock 3500 and how much it sags under a normal load.

No doubt your truck would pull that fine.

However there is no legal way to add more GVW to any size truck. The door sticker is GOD you can not exceed it no matter what, and still be legal.

If this was the case the air bags I put in are good for another 2000lbs so that would mean I can now have a 9200lbs GVW.

I know your going to say that it is completely diff. b/c your truck has another one just like it that is a dually and it can do 12,000lbs GVW with more springs and tires. But that truck has those options from the factory which gives it that rating. Yours does not.

There could be other things involved in that rating like wheelbase, brake size, sway bar size, frame reinforcements, as you said, leaf pack size, the extra tires(and what ply they are), the actual weight of the truck, rear gear ratio, front suspension capabilities, there was a heavy duty front suspension upgrade on some Diesel trucks.

I stand by my word, your 1000lbs over.
And I say pull it, because no sane human will do something that they know will potentially hurt themselves.

 

[Longhorn]

Actually GVW is NOT GOD...and yes you can exceed your GVW on your door sticker each and every day that you wish too...

Legal weight capacity is based off your tires...Go from an 8 ply to a 10 or 12 ply tire and you can legally register your truck for more weight.

Air bags dont affect weight capacity from a legal standpoint, just level out your ride. (I know you know this, Im just confirming).