Spray foam in a house

[RGM]

So what is the diff between 2lb and 1/2 lb. Pricing, R value and where it can or should or should not be used?

 

[Trashy]

I would never in a million years use ICF. IF you can find a good contractor to do it (massive IF), you still have no idea how good the wall is, is there a massive hole somewhere that will show itself down the line when it's finished and be a massive bill to fix? I've never seen ICF walls that are straight enough to just board on top of (if you want it look to decent). Just pour regular concrete and glue the foam on, inside and outside if you want. The price will be about the same maybe even cheaper, but you know it's a better product in the end. Also if you're going to ICF to the roof, there's the extra expense of a bigger footing for the load.

Never been a huge fan of spray foam. If your house ends up catching fire, it could be devastating consequences. Spray foam burns like a SOB. And just don't agree with it being a vapour barrier, you still have wood studs touching drywall.

There's also the difference between insulating a house good, and overkill. It still needs to breath and have fresh air. The best window on the market is like a R9, still just like a massive hole in the wall. With the furnaces now, gas bills aren't that bad. Mine will jump above $200/month if it's really cold which isn't bad. How much are you going to spend trying to save $10/month for a few months of the year?

Good to know that you can't do a proper ICF wall, or haven't seen one.
Gluing foam panels is stupid and still requires a vapor barrier and can be more money than spray foaming. Anyone who foams an exterior wall and doesn't properly install caulking and poly, shouldn't be allowed to spray.
It takes just as long to pay for a high end furnace, as it does a proper insulation job. But a proper job will cost you about 20 bucks a month on your gas bill for heat.

 

[JayT]

What we have found with the conventional 8 inch concrete foundation is staple a 2' strip of poly to the ladder before you even begin framing. With the 16in of poly hanging into the basement. Frame your floor on top of that. When you go to do your frost walls hang that poly over the inside of your Frost wall and seal it to your Frost wall poly. Spray foam The joist space completely to your poly that was originally stapled to the foundation that way you have continuous seal into your basement

 

[treeboy]

I would never in a million years use ICF. IF you can find a good contractor to do it (massive IF), you still have no idea how good the wall is, is there a massive hole somewhere that will show itself down the line when it's finished and be a massive bill to fix? I've never seen ICF walls that are straight enough to just board on top of (if you want it look to decent). Just pour regular concrete and glue the foam on, inside and outside if you want. The price will be about the same maybe even cheaper, but you know it's a better product in the end. Also if you're going to ICF to the roof, there's the extra expense of a bigger footing for the load.

Never been a huge fan of spray foam. If your house ends up catching fire, it could be devastating consequences. Spray foam burns like a SOB. And just don't agree with it being a vapour barrier, you still have wood studs touching drywall.

There's also the difference between insulating a house good, and overkill. It still needs to breath and have fresh air. The best window on the market is like a R9, still just like a massive hole in the wall. With the furnaces now, gas bills aren't that bad. Mine will jump above $200/month if it's really cold which isn't bad. How much are you going to spend trying to save $10/month for a few months of the year?

As a builder and plumbing & heating contractor The problem with icf is a lot of installers don’t take enough care building them, from the footing to the start on you first row of blocks needs to be dead level an square. Them when pouring making sure the walls are level. Trust me I have seen my fair share of badly built ones. Things I like about them no stripping forms, well insulted, already vapor barrier walls, really sound quiet. Bad side if you don’t have you siding one for some reason bears like to rip cunches of the foam off, an ants tunnel in the foam.
Two of the place I built and did the heating systems in them too forced air furnaces, one was complete electric no gas or wood in the place hydro thought the were stealing power the owners used so little, and the other on oil furnace didn’t even burn a full tank of oil. Both these places were built almost 18 years ago.

Really every way of building and insulating has its advantages and disadvantages, it’s just choosing right for your budget.

 

[puddle]

Ive heard a few horror stories of mice eating through ICF resulting in major problems.

 

[treeboy]

Ive heard a few horror stories of mice eating through ICF resulting in major problems.

As So i have seen with spray foam mice an rats chewing at it. Wood frame ants chewing in the structure studs and insulation. All these things suck as a builder. I could go on an on about this and on heating/cooling systems.
snow is here lets ride....

 

[52weekbreak]

I purchased an older home in Sherwood Park for my kids. We decided to gut the basement (which was developed but poorly) and install a legal basement suite so each kid had their own kitchen. We used a local contractor and had the BASF Walltite foam installed from the bottom of the basement wall to the underside of the upstairs floor. The basement, which was cold before, is much warmer now and very consistent in temperature. The cost was about 10% more than what it would have cost for the fiberglass insulation installed (which was about $300). As far as savings goes, the basement furnace (required in a legal basement suite in Sherwood Park) seldom runs PERIOD. I suspect that the payback was about 3 years. It is kind of like triple glaze windows where it is a little more expensive (15% on the window alone) but the comfort level difference is amazing.

If I was building a new framed house, I would absolutely use this product again (spray foam - not necessarily the Wall-Tite one). I would discuss the best thickness as there comes a point that more isn't better - it is just more. Seems to me 3 to 4 inches is optimum if using the 2 lb product. Care to share some thoughts from an expert point of view on that Trashy?

 

[Trashy]

I 100% agree...... Too much of a good thing, isn't always a good thing.
I think the 3-5 inch number is perfect and I would use BASF Walltite Eco products. Because again, that they have the highest R-value rating in the industry.
2 years ago I made a cold celler in our basement. It's approx. 5'x5'x8'h I put on an outside door and sprayed 2lbs about 2 inches thick, on the outside concrete wall, the interior walls, the cantilever and continued on the ceiling. In the summer, it's a very cool room. In the winter, there's almost no point of having the basement fridge on.

 

[Trashy]

Something else I would like to add, about spray foam..... Walltite and Enertite in particular.

2lbs closed cell does NOT have a STC rating, it is primarily used as a thermal product.
1/2lbs open cell does HAVE and STC rating "Sound Transmission Class". which makes it a superior product for sound proofing.

If I was to develop my basement, I would 2lbs about 2-3 inches on my exterior walls, rim joists, joist ends and cantilevers. I would 1/2lbs my entire ceiling for sound, with the exception of the cold air returns.

 

[08arcticcat]

What would be a better sound dampener for a media room? 1/2lb spray or some roxul sound deadening batts?

 

[Trashy]

What would be a better sound dampener for a media room? 1/2lb spray or some roxul sound deadening batts?

There is no such thing as sound deading batts. That is a retail ploy, that insulsation companies provide for the average consumer.
Which makes this a great question, that is informative for everyone.

An R8 batt, is better than nothing. For many years, all we had was regular batts and they did great for sound damping. R12, R20, whatever you wanted.... Roxul came out as a fire proofing insulation, which later became a good STC rating and of course a cheaper than spray foam solution, that still requires caulking and poly. But no where near a spray foam..... After Roxul became famous in the building industry, they went towards the big box stores and made their........ Comfort Batt, Sound Batt, Thermal Batt and so on......... Which are all good, but more so marketed for the consumer.

 

[OVERKILL 19]

I had my basement spray foamed, it made my poorly framed walls a lot stronger!