Some thing interesting???

[Smidgy]

It's not a law discriminating against any type of rider. If you showed up and ripped up ground in a lifted 3/4 ton truck, you would be subject to the same penalties.

The problem is that freedoms are limited when people make stupid decisions. Ripping up earth next to a lake is a stupid decision. If people keep making stupid decisions, freedoms will be limited.

You discuss tracks for people who enjoy racing. Are most of these private? If they are private, why is it that noone has opened up a zone for quads where you could rip up someones land, so long as you paid for the right to do so.

Also, is a helmet law effecting the way you ride? Some would argue that it does, and that is government mandated.

I'm not trying to start an argument, mearly a discussion. I can understand the draw to pushing a big machine through a deep hole, I just feel that people have trouble finding the appropriate spots to do it. This is likely because the wetest spots are usually near a lake. I'm pretty into keeping the lakes as clean as possible.

I agree with you that this was not the location, it was by a lake and is unexcusable. Mudbogging as described in the article is a more public event and if these "mudboggers" had somewhere to go where other "mudboggers" were known to be, you can probably see where I am going. If public locations like this existed there would be no need to do it anywhere else, and lawmakers would have something to fall back on.

As was stated in the article "Licensing of offorad vehicles is a must" & "It would also make it easier for responsible ATV users to identify and report destructive ATV behaviour without risking a possible ugly confrontation by trying to approach irresponsible ATV'ers directly" I see this as a slipery slope to walk on, what if you drive your quad fast down trails, maybe what some consider over aggresive riding is not aggresive to you. You see where I am going? Everyone's opinions are subjective of what is right and wrong. Too many times I have seen litigation put into action that effects riders that it was not intended to effect.

You make a very good point in your paragraph about freedoms, but mudbogging isn't the only stupid decisions made on atv's and my fear is there will be litigation put into effect for each as time goes on.

 

[Polaris_Fanatic]

SERVES THEM RIGHT, FOR HUNTERS GOING INTO THE FOREST IT JUST CAUSES HELL BECUASE YOU ARE HAULING TRAILERS IN AND YOU GET STUCK CONSTANTLY BECAUSE OF SOME IDIOTS THAT CAME THROUGH JUST TO GO BOGGING IN THE BIG MUD HOLES WITH THEIR RETARDED TIRES THAT DIG TRENCHES UP TO YOUR KNEES JUST BECAUSE ITS "FUN" - JUST MY 2 CENTS

 

[JaySimon]

I agree with you that this was not the location, it was by a lake and is unexcusable. Mudbogging as described in the article is a more public event and if these "mudboggers" had somewhere to go where other "mudboggers" were known to be, you can probably see where I am going. If public locations like this existed there would be no need to do it anywhere else, and lawmakers would have something to fall back on.

As was stated in the article "Licensing of offorad vehicles is a must" & "It would also make it easier for responsible ATV users to identify and report destructive ATV behaviour without risking a possible ugly confrontation by trying to approach irresponsible ATV'ers directly" I see this as a slipery slope to walk on, what if you drive your quad fast down trails, maybe what some consider over aggresive riding is not aggresive to you. You see where I am going? Everyone's opinions are subjective of what is right and wrong. Too many times I have seen litigation put into action that effects riders that it was not intended to effect.

You make a very good point in your paragraph about freedoms, but mudbogging isn't the only stupid decisions made on atv's and my fear is there will be litigation put into effect for each as time goes on.

I hear you, I am thinking we have enough litigation on the books for the next long time.

The big question I pose, is how do we regulate the people who are making bad decisions in the backcountry? There is a time and place for everything, mudding included. The challenge is in finding an appropriate spot. Low lying areas inevitably are better for mudding, but many of them are ever so close to streams and rivers. Along the same thought, how far away should you be to minimize the impact on said river? In the end, how could it be minimized and/or controlled? Frankly, there are far more responsible users in the woods than not, but we hear about the ones ripping shiat up.

About licensing, I thought quads need licensing in Alberta already anyways? Every quad I see on a trailer from has a plate. If this kicks in, we all know its a cash grab for a strapped province. (Gas tax anyone?) Asking people to snitch on other users is asking alot. It could open a game of he-said she-said.

Frankly, if a guy had the start up capital to buy enough land and create a zone that was ATV oriented, I wager he could make a killing. Campground/mudpit/trails that borders on crown land. Anyone want to invest in a business? :d

Just keeping the ideas flowing

 

[Sofa king]

To me this is no different then the people who leave their garbage on the trails in ALL riding areas i have been too. Almost all people i run into on trails have garbage bags and take their trash out with them. That being said you still see garbage everywhere you go. Littering laws don't stop the db's and neither will atv licensing. If there is one thing you can count on its that there is always one azzhole that wrecks it for everyone. jmo

 

[fargineyesore]

SERVES THEM RIGHT, FOR HUNTERS GOING INTO THE FOREST IT JUST CAUSES HELL BECUASE YOU ARE HAULING TRAILERS IN AND YOU GET STUCK CONSTANTLY BECAUSE OF SOME IDIOTS THAT CAME THROUGH JUST TO GO BOGGING IN THE BIG MUD HOLES WITH THEIR RETARDED TIRES THAT DIG TRENCHES UP TO YOUR KNEES JUST BECAUSE ITS "FUN" - JUST MY 2 CENTS

So let's start litigating the hell out of hunters because of the stupid actions of a few such as poachers, night hunters, out of season, etc? Fine, lets do it!!! If you're talking about a road, quads don't cause the kind of trenches you're talking about, large vehicles do. If you're talking trails, then don't complain. You don't own the bush any more than anyone else just because you're a hunter. I've seen plenty of hunters with "monster trucks" that cause more damage than a quad ever will.

 

[messinaround]

So let's start litigating the hell out of hunters because of the stupid actions of a few such as poachers, night hunters, out of season, etc? Fine, lets do it!!! If you're talking about a road, quads don't cause the kind of trenches you're talking about, large vehicles do. If you're talking trails, then don't complain. You don't own the bush any more than anyone else just because you're a hunter. I've seen plenty of hunters with "monster trucks" that cause more damage than a quad ever will.

Well said

 

[Smidgy]

I hear you, I am thinking we have enough litigation on the books for the next long time.

The big question I pose, is how do we regulate the people who are making bad decisions in the backcountry? There is a time and place for everything, mudding included. The challenge is in finding an appropriate spot. Low lying areas inevitably are better for mudding, but many of them are ever so close to streams and rivers. Along the same thought, how far away should you be to minimize the impact on said river? In the end, how could it be minimized and/or controlled? Frankly, there are far more responsible users in the woods than not, but we hear about the ones ripping shiat up.

About licensing, I thought quads need licensing in Alberta already anyways? Every quad I see on a trailer from has a plate. If this kicks in, we all know its a cash grab for a strapped province. (Gas tax anyone?) Asking people to snitch on other users is asking alot. It could open a game of he-said she-said.

Frankly, if a guy had the start up capital to buy enough land and create a zone that was ATV oriented, I wager he could make a killing. Campground/mudpit/trails that borders on crown land. Anyone want to invest in a business? :d

Just keeping the ideas flowing

We have licensing in New Brunswick and it is a pain, you have to keep it up from year to year and it is a cash grab. Newfoundland has it setup nice that you only have to do it once. In New Brunswick we had two unforunate deaths of under 16 y/o riders in 2006. The government then stepped in and put a law into effect that any rider under 16 needs to take an approved atv course ride an age specific machine and be accompanied by an adult at all times. The parent has to take the course as well. The law didn't effect parents that did not care in the first place and use thier atv as a babysitter it effects the responsible atv riders.

There will always be the people that break the rules, there will still be people "mudbogging" in sensitive areas that will not be caught, and the damage will be done...but I think the more outlets that we give people to do it the right way in the right place, most of the times they will and the problem could be controlled.

You asked for some examples of atv parks here are webstes for a couple...

 

[Polaris_Fanatic]

So let's start litigating the hell out of hunters because of the stupid actions of a few such as poachers, night hunters, out of season, etc? Fine, lets do it!!! If you're talking about a road, quads don't cause the kind of trenches you're talking about, large vehicles do. If you're talking trails, then don't complain. You don't own the bush any more than anyone else just because you're a hunter. I've seen plenty of hunters with "monster trucks" that cause more damage than a quad ever will.

every time i go into the hunting cabin there is always the idiots with outlaws or silverbacks just destroying the trails because they claim it is "fun" it was fine when they just did it to the main trails but then they started looking for the side trails that we took the time to find and clear so that it was easy to haul stuff into camp but now they search for the back trails and rip the hell out of them seriously whats the point all it does is reck the trails for the hunters and reaspective trail riders personally i am glad they are charging the mud boggers who just go searching for the big mud holes and see who can get stuck the worst if you wanna go bogging its fine by me but just stay off the trails

 

[fargineyesore]

every time i go into the hunting cabin there is always the idiots with outlaws or silverbacks just destroying the trails because they claim it is "fun" it was fine when they just did it to the main trails but then they started looking for the side trails that we took the time to find and clear so that it was easy to haul stuff into camp but now they search for the back trails and rip the hell out of them seriously whats the point all it does is reck the trails for the hunters and reaspective trail riders personally i am glad they are charging the mud boggers who just go searching for the big mud holes and see who can get stuck the worst if you wanna go bogging its fine by me but just stay off the trails

Yes, I can see how that would be frustrating. If it's a trail though, I'm not sure that getting the cops out there is the answer. There's enough rules and cops everywhere else. I certainly don't want them in the bush. They can stick to fighting crime. I think it is better to keep the mudders on trails rather than ripping up off-trail areas, that's what usually gets the authorities excited. Unfortunately, if you do clear a trail, because it is crown land and no one has exclusive rights to it, people are going to use them. Rather than having cops, etc. out there, if one could somehow be out there when the quadders are as well, a person could explain the situation to them and you'd be surprised. Most people would understand your situation and I think try to accomodate you and rip up the other trails. I know the problem is being there when they are, so it's easier said than done, and not all are respectful I know. No easy solution, but I don't think cops in the bush is it.

 

[Polaris_Fanatic]

Yes, I can see how that would be frustrating. If it's a trail though, I'm not sure that getting the cops out there is the answer. There's enough rules and cops everywhere else. I certainly don't want them in the bush. They can stick to fighting crime. I think it is better to keep the mudders on trails rather than ripping up off-trail areas, that's what usually gets the authorities excited. Unfortunately, if you do clear a trail, because it is crown land and no one has exclusive rights to it, people are going to use them. Rather than having cops, etc. out there, if one could somehow be out there when the quadders are as well, a person could explain the situation to them and you'd be surprised. Most people would understand your situation and I think try to accomodate you and rip up the other trails. I know the problem is being there when they are, so it's easier said than done, and not all are respectful I know. No easy solution, but I don't think cops in the bush is it.

i agree there is already too much cop traffic in the bush but its just when they search for the side side trails that bugs me because if they were smart about bogging they would stay on the main trail because i have rode them both and the place to go bogging if thats what your there for is the main trail because there is way more mud holes to go in and we were kind enough to make side trails for hunters and just trail riders but they just get found and destroyed just like the main trail all i ask is to stay off the side trails that people have taken the time to find and clear them for recreational use not bogging

 

[Smidgy]

i agree there is already too much cop traffic in the bush but its just when they search for the side side trails that bugs me because if they were smart about bogging they would stay on the main trail because i have rode them both and the place to go bogging if thats what your there for is the main trail because there is way more mud holes to go in and we were kind enough to make side trails for hunters and just trail riders but they just get found and destroyed just like the main trail all i ask is to stay off the side trails that people have taken the time to find and clear them for recreational use not bogging

but it is not your trail, it is everyone's trail! I understand what you are saying but look at it this way, when they are out you are not there telling them no. There is a trail here going this new direction and guess what lets try it out.

Crown land is everyone's right and anyone thinks that they can claim a part of it as there own is no better than the ones causing damage, that is wrong too. Just because you hunt there doesn't mean you own it. Any trail made on crown land is anyone's right, if you want a private trail make it on your own property

 

[-albertaboy-]

I agree ...most responsible people can ride and have fun and you never know they were there , but some have to tear up everything they find , just to be destructive ....Some people just need the enforcement to keep them from further destruction ......Just saying!!

Ban it or not the people are still going to do it!! the government and law enforcement can try but it will never end! all that means is there will be more and more illegal offroading and farmer john is not going to appreciate that. Its like when they were ( i dont know if they still are) trying to close down that trail in bragg creek because people were abusing it, im completely with them on the whole people abusing it and leaving garbage everywhere but closing it down? that is just going to make more effort for them in the long run trying to stop illigal offroaders. I dont care who you are but if you are riding a quad, snowmobile, 4x4 truck Etc. you are still going to have an effect on the environment. you may be cleaner than the others and not destroy swamplands etc but your still not doing the environment any good. ii dont really know what side im on but i kinda wanted to just state a few points i was thinking of i guess.

 

[carter.c]

this website is called snow and mud, but it sounds like alot of people hate mud and mudders. . .

 

[zrtdarryl]

actually the people here do not hate mudders but most of us would like to have the trails stay as trails so srd does not close them , and most of us know of enough mudholes on main trails at the edge of muskeg which gives quadders hours upon hours of stuck and/or unsuccessful attempts at traversing the mud . this would seem to point in the direction of ride the trails and do not make more unnecessary mudholes on the trails , and learn where the current mudpits are and use them for mudding. in nordegg a mere 20 minute ride nw of the hostel there is a mudpit in a small valley on a trail clearly marked for offroad use only by srd at the start of the trail. i would challenge anybody not to enjoy themselves bogging in this area , it changes over the period of the year from sloppy wet to sticky gooey with different ways through almost week to week

 

[ttpowersports]

well responsible use is the key to everyones future enjoyment, I hope that the goverment will use the money spent on license and registration to invest in the trail and off road use for all atver's this will give everyone a place to go...thats the problem theres not enough "public" land available that everyone knows about, so they are going where they can... we have to ban together and get trails like the rest of the public has..

my two cents,

Terry

 

[zrtdarryl]

AOHVA is getting a lot of political pull right now , crowsnest quad squad does a really good job in the crowsnest area , it seems that the best thing we could do is keep up our yearly membership so the members numbers count are up when they go to srd.
a little better arrangemnt between the ASA and quadders would also be a good thing like summer trail passes ?

 

[Smidgy]

AOHVA is getting a lot of political pull right now , crowsnest quad squad does a really good job in the crowsnest area , it seems that the best thing we could do is keep up our yearly membership so the members numbers count are up when they go to srd.
a little better arrangemnt between the ASA and quadders would also be a good thing like summer trail passes ?

I agree 100%, the more money these provincial associations get the better for atvers. Money will give them the resources to maintain trails and and build new ones. Association can run the rules and have a little pull in the disilplinary action ie (suspensions/bans from said trail systems etc. etc. that are run by an atv association that are out there). This in result will save government the money and resources of enforcing rules and regs and they may have some extra cash to through back to these associations. Having the trails policed is not going to make the trails a better place to ride it is just going to change the issues.

Banning together is a great way to make sure government doesn't make the wrong decisions and makes the responsibe decision for the group.

If these associations could be established and take hold then they would begin to get a little but of pull with the government as it begins to bring in revenue for the province via tourism(other atver's from other province or atv rental packages) and this can become big money each atving season. Money that stays in the area via motels or camping or gas etc. etc. This could then mean more and more help form government.

MY 2 cents.

 

[grnboyz]

Alot of this comes from the attitude of the people doing it. If the guys are out having some fun and don't know that they are doing anything wrong then their may not have been any fines, but when a guy blatenly gets in your face when you tell him the rules and laws, then they should throw the book at him.

 

[Rider]

This is another incident similar to people Driving in creeks if you cross in the most direct way it's fine minimal to no damage. While rodding up and down them is fun and cleans the quad it destroys fish habitat so we try to aviod doing it. But in the end it all comes down to common sense and now a days it doesn't seem to common. I guess the ATV comminity is going to do what the oil patch did create board to police it self ie. the ERCB.

Just my 2 bits

 

[Smidgy]

This is another incident similar to people Driving in creeks if you cross in the most direct way it's fine minimal to no damage. While rodding up and down them is fun and cleans the quad it destroys fish habitat so we try to aviod doing it. But in the end it all comes down to common sense and now a days it doesn't seem to common. I guess the ATV comminity is going to do what the oil patch did create board to police it self ie. the ERCB.

Just my 2 bits

Hatfield Mccoy Hatfield and McCoy Trails - Hatfield-McCoy Trails Official Web Site- Home Page trails in Virginia do just that. They have eqauipment to maintain trails ie dozers etc. The have enforcing staff that are not police officers but rather club officials that have the authority to ban or remove people from the trails. This is the best setup in my opinion. This is what a trail sytem should work like.