Short Term Rentals

[Dawizman]

Anyone have experience in owning a short term rental property?

I'm looking at buying a house or two in a sledding community to both rent out, and use for my own trips, with the potential to move full time in the next few years. Looking at the Revelstoke or Golden area primarily, but also other sled towns.

Just looking for some info on average occupancy rates, costs (cleaning / turn over, other?), gross annual income, summer vs winter occupancy, and any other info you're willing to share to help me put a business plan together and figure out if it's worth it.

 

[maxwell]

Anyone have experience in owning a short term rental property?

I'm looking at buying a house or two in a sledding community to both rent out, and use for my own trips, with the potential to move full time in the next few years. Looking at the Revelstoke or Golden area primarily, but also other sled towns.

Just looking for some info on average occupancy rates, costs (cleaning / turn over, other?), gross annual income, summer vs winter occupancy, and any other info you're willing to share to help me put a business plan together and figure out if it's worth it.

i have a few on the go

i will use the one in sicamous as i think it best represents what your looking for


1. We haven't been able to use the sicamous rental for ourselves since we launched it 3 years ago. So throw that idea of using it yourself out the window lol. It is too busy and very hard to justify using it for "yourself" if it could be rented that week for 2000$, If you can stomach lost revenue and block time off for you to use then it is possible, but i will say that was our initial plan that didnt pan out. The only times we could get in there to use it would be October and April Offseason.

2. Occupancy rates are 95% May to September and the same for December to March. The rest of the months are sporadic, we will sometimes offset slow months by renting the entire month at a lower rate to someone visiting family, working in town ETC during the off season.

3. I wont get into gross annual income as that's really dependent on the product you offer but i will say after all of the Bills are paid, repairs complete, cleaner paid, condo fees paid we are getting 15% ROI Mortgaged. If you are paying cash obviously that would be higher. We might only clear 1000$ a month profit on average but thats including getting the mortgage paid which is also considered income. Its not a bad gig, once its paid off we could potentially be clearing 4k a month on that property. This property was purchased at a good time, The unit has since increased in value by 40% over the last 4 years. We will see if it holds or if it was a pandemic trend. Obviously the price you pay for the property determines your return. Just because you paid double what it was worth 3 years ago doesnt mean its going to bring in double the rental rate.

This property is a Condo style with garage. Some advantages to this style is it is pretty much hands off for us. Someone cuts the grass, removes the snow, maintains the building etc. Of course this comes with condo fees. The only thing we literally have to do is schedule our cleaner, and we actually have a calendar synced to her so she can just see check ins/outs. Air bnb takes care of the payments, we really dont have to do much now that its all setup..

But if your looking for a residential style home, those are all things you will have to consider and factor in, snow, grass, garbage, etc. do you want the hassle? pay the cleaner extra to take care of it? all manageable items depending on the amount of extra work load vs cost you want associate yourself with.

What has really helped us be successful was our investment back into the property. We did a full renovation and are constantly updating things as we can so that return customers and future customers can see and appreciate the updates. People are starting to get very creative and very good at this short term rental thing, to be successful you need to do it RIGHT. High quality product and high standards of expectations from your cleaners. These short term rental systems are based on reviews and ratings, it doesn't take long to get booted to the bottom of the list if your not good at what your doing. You need to also take into consideration
in home amenities and consumables. people expect nice pillows, sheets, towels, coffee, etc.....All things that cost money that you should build into your business plan and plan for full replacement at least once per year.

You need a reliable home, reliable appliances, reliable mechanical systems, and reliable people to help you if you aren't living in the immediate vicinity.

Your "cleaner" is going to be your lifeline, on average we payout the cleaner 120$ per visit and it takes her about 3-4 hours to go through the place. You will transfer that cost directly onto the consumer through the rental platform you choose. Plan for paying the cleaner a bit extra every year for a couple deep cleans etc and perhaps a few times where she stays a few extra hours because the guests brought dogs they didnt tell you about etc etc. If they workout, and are doing a good job a little christmas bonus goes along way to keep them happy and doing a good job. This is the person you are going to 100% rely on, so your going to want to interview them, meet them, make clear your expectations and confirm their availability to you. If you have back to back checkin/outs they have a 6 hour window to get in and clean. You are putting the sucess of the next stay fully in their hands so hopefully they show up! I also recommend a backup plan B. The cleaner will be the one to run over and check things out when customers complain or there is a mechanical issue etc, like i said, your lifeline.

Something to consider for property selection would be year round activities. Sicamous was a no brainer for us as its a popular snowmobile destination and a popular boating destination. As for Revelstoke and Golden im not so sure about that for summer season other than the travelers through? Either way, feel it out. You need to be busy 75% of the year to make this worth while. Your first few months/year may be slow as you start to build up a reputation/review base. So count on covering the costs of the property for a few months at least until its setup and operating properly.

It also needs to be EASY to access/operate for guests, get smart wifi door locks, smart thermostats, as much smart chit as you can think of so that when you have an issue you can figure it out for yourself. Change door codes, open the door remotely, adjust the air conditioning while its empty ETC. ETC.


sorry i just realized i could write a book with what we have learned over the years LOL end rant. Ask away if you have any questions


Edit*** when looking at properties, make sure the municipality and zoning allow short term rentals, if they do currently make sure its not on their radar to ban it. If looking at a condo style unit also check the condo bylaws to ensure it is allowed and not currently in discussions to ban it. Lots of condo developments trying to cutout short term rentals, same with some municipalities or specific zones within municipalities. Attend all the meetings you can to make sure no funny business is happening in the background that could effect your rental

Airbnb: Vacation Rentals, Cabins, Beach Houses, Unique Homes & Experiences

www.airbnb.ca

 

[rightsideup]

i have a few on the go

i will use the one in sicamous as i think it best represents what your looking for


1. We haven't been able to use the sicamous rental for ourselves since we launched it 3 years ago. So throw that idea of using it yourself out the window lol. It is too busy and very hard to justify using it for "yourself" if it could be rented that week for 2000$, If you can stomach lost revenue and block time off for you to use then it is possible, but i will say that was our initial plan that didnt pan out. The only times we could get in there to use it would be October and April Offseason.

2. Occupancy rates are 95% May to September and the same for December to March. The rest of the months are sporadic, we will sometimes offset slow months by renting the entire month at a lower rate to someone visiting family, working in town ETC during the off season.

3. I wont get into gross annual income as that's really dependent on the product you offer but i will say after all of the Bills are paid, repairs complete, cleaner paid, condo fees paid we are getting 15% ROI Mortgaged. If you are paying cash obviously that would be higher. We might only clear 1000$ a month profit on average but thats including getting the mortgage paid which is also considered income. Its not a bad gig, once its paid off we could potentially be clearing 4k a month on that property. This property was purchased at a good time, The unit has since increased in value by 40% over the last 4 years. We will see if it holds or if it was a pandemic trend. Obviously the price you pay for the property determines your return. Just because you paid double what it was worth 3 years ago doesnt mean its going to bring in double the rental rate.

This property is a Condo style with garage. Some advantages to this style is it is pretty much hands off for us. Someone cuts the grass, removes the snow, maintains the building etc. Of course this comes with condo fees. The only thing we literally have to do is schedule our cleaner, and we actually have a calendar synced to her so she can just see check ins/outs. Air bnb takes care of the payments, we really dont have to do much now that its all setup..

But if your looking for a residential style home, those are all things you will have to consider and factor in, snow, grass, garbage, etc. do you want the hassle? pay the cleaner extra to take care of it? all manageable items depending on the amount of extra work load vs cost you want associate yourself with.

What has really helped us be successful was our investment back into the property. We did a full renovation and are constantly updating things as we can so that return customers and future customers can see and appreciate the updates. People are starting to get very creative and very good at this short term rental thing, to be successful you need to do it RIGHT. High quality product and high standards of expectations from your cleaners. These short term rental systems are based on reviews and ratings, it doesn't take long to get booted to the bottom of the list if your not good at what your doing. You need to also take into consideration
in home amenities and consumables. people expect nice pillows, sheets, towels, coffee, etc.....All things that cost money that you should build into your business plan and plan for full replacement at least once per year.

You need a reliable home, reliable appliances, reliable mechanical systems, and reliable people to help you if you aren't living in the immediate vicinity.

Your "cleaner" is going to be your lifeline, on average we payout the cleaner 120$ per visit and it takes her about 3-4 hours to go through the place. You will transfer that cost directly onto the consumer through the rental platform you choose. Plan for paying the cleaner a bit extra every year for a couple deep cleans etc and perhaps a few times where she stays a few extra hours because the guests brought dogs they didnt tell you about etc etc. If they workout, and are doing a good job a little christmas bonus goes along way to keep them happy and doing a good job. This is the person you are going to 100% rely on, so your going to want to interview them, meet them, make clear your expectations and confirm their availability to you. If you have back to back checkin/outs they have a 6 hour window to get in and clean. You are putting the sucess of the next stay fully in their hands so hopefully they show up! I also recommend a backup plan B. The cleaner will be the one to run over and check things out when customers complain or there is a mechanical issue etc, like i said, your lifeline.

Something to consider for property selection would be year round activities. Sicamous was a no brainer for us as its a popular snowmobile destination and a popular boating destination. As for Revelstoke and Golden im not so sure about that for summer season other than the travelers through? Either way, feel it out. You need to be busy 75% of the year to make this worth while. Your first few months/year may be slow as you start to build up a reputation/review base. So count on covering the costs of the property for a few months at least until its setup and operating properly.

It also needs to be EASY to access/operate for guests, get smart wifi door locks, smart thermostats, as much smart chit as you can think of so that when you have an issue you can figure it out for yourself. Change door codes, open the door remotely, adjust the air conditioning while its empty ETC. ETC.


sorry i just realized i could write a book with what we have learned over the years LOL end rant. Ask away if you have any questions


Edit*** when looking at properties, make sure the municipality and zoning allow short term rentals, if they do currently make sure its not on their radar to ban it. If looking at a condo style unit also check the condo bylaws to ensure it is allowed and not currently in discussions to ban it. Lots of condo developments trying to cutout short term rentals, same with some municipalities or specific zones within municipalities. Attend all the meetings you can to make sure no funny business is happening in the background that could effect your rental

Airbnb: Vacation Rentals, Cabins, Beach Houses, Unique Homes & Experiences

www.airbnb.ca

very helpfull for the op

 

[lilduke]

Maybe ask @tejay about short term rentals in Revelstoke

 

[Dawizman]

i have a few on the go

i will use the one in sicamous as i think it best represents what your looking for


1. We haven't been able to use the sicamous rental for ourselves since we launched it 3 years ago. So throw that idea of using it yourself out the window lol. It is too busy and very hard to justify using it for "yourself" if it could be rented that week for 2000$, If you can stomach lost revenue and block time off for you to use then it is possible, but i will say that was our initial plan that didnt pan out. The only times we could get in there to use it would be October and April Offseason.

2. Occupancy rates are 95% May to September and the same for December to March. The rest of the months are sporadic, we will sometimes offset slow months by renting the entire month at a lower rate to someone visiting family, working in town ETC during the off season.

3. I wont get into gross annual income as that's really dependent on the product you offer but i will say after all of the Bills are paid, repairs complete, cleaner paid, condo fees paid we are getting 15% ROI Mortgaged. If you are paying cash obviously that would be higher. We might only clear 1000$ a month profit on average but thats including getting the mortgage paid which is also considered income. Its not a bad gig, once its paid off we could potentially be clearing 4k a month on that property. This property was purchased at a good time, The unit has since increased in value by 40% over the last 4 years. We will see if it holds or if it was a pandemic trend. Obviously the price you pay for the property determines your return. Just because you paid double what it was worth 3 years ago doesnt mean its going to bring in double the rental rate.

This property is a Condo style with garage. Some advantages to this style is it is pretty much hands off for us. Someone cuts the grass, removes the snow, maintains the building etc. Of course this comes with condo fees. The only thing we literally have to do is schedule our cleaner, and we actually have a calendar synced to her so she can just see check ins/outs. Air bnb takes care of the payments, we really dont have to do much now that its all setup..

But if your looking for a residential style home, those are all things you will have to consider and factor in, snow, grass, garbage, etc. do you want the hassle? pay the cleaner extra to take care of it? all manageable items depending on the amount of extra work load vs cost you want associate yourself with.

What has really helped us be successful was our investment back into the property. We did a full renovation and are constantly updating things as we can so that return customers and future customers can see and appreciate the updates. People are starting to get very creative and very good at this short term rental thing, to be successful you need to do it RIGHT. High quality product and high standards of expectations from your cleaners. These short term rental systems are based on reviews and ratings, it doesn't take long to get booted to the bottom of the list if your not good at what your doing. You need to also take into consideration
in home amenities and consumables. people expect nice pillows, sheets, towels, coffee, etc.....All things that cost money that you should build into your business plan and plan for full replacement at least once per year.

You need a reliable home, reliable appliances, reliable mechanical systems, and reliable people to help you if you aren't living in the immediate vicinity.

Your "cleaner" is going to be your lifeline, on average we payout the cleaner 120$ per visit and it takes her about 3-4 hours to go through the place. You will transfer that cost directly onto the consumer through the rental platform you choose. Plan for paying the cleaner a bit extra every year for a couple deep cleans etc and perhaps a few times where she stays a few extra hours because the guests brought dogs they didnt tell you about etc etc. If they workout, and are doing a good job a little christmas bonus goes along way to keep them happy and doing a good job. This is the person you are going to 100% rely on, so your going to want to interview them, meet them, make clear your expectations and confirm their availability to you. If you have back to back checkin/outs they have a 6 hour window to get in and clean. You are putting the sucess of the next stay fully in their hands so hopefully they show up! I also recommend a backup plan B. The cleaner will be the one to run over and check things out when customers complain or there is a mechanical issue etc, like i said, your lifeline.

Something to consider for property selection would be year round activities. Sicamous was a no brainer for us as its a popular snowmobile destination and a popular boating destination. As for Revelstoke and Golden im not so sure about that for summer season other than the travelers through? Either way, feel it out. You need to be busy 75% of the year to make this worth while. Your first few months/year may be slow as you start to build up a reputation/review base. So count on covering the costs of the property for a few months at least until its setup and operating properly.

It also needs to be EASY to access/operate for guests, get smart wifi door locks, smart thermostats, as much smart chit as you can think of so that when you have an issue you can figure it out for yourself. Change door codes, open the door remotely, adjust the air conditioning while its empty ETC. ETC.


sorry i just realized i could write a book with what we have learned over the years LOL end rant. Ask away if you have any questions


Edit*** when looking at properties, make sure the municipality and zoning allow short term rentals, if they do currently make sure its not on their radar to ban it. If looking at a condo style unit also check the condo bylaws to ensure it is allowed and not currently in discussions to ban it. Lots of condo developments trying to cutout short term rentals, same with some municipalities or specific zones within municipalities. Attend all the meetings you can to make sure no funny business is happening in the background that could effect your rental

Airbnb: Vacation Rentals, Cabins, Beach Houses, Unique Homes & Experiences

www.airbnb.ca

Great information, thanks. Your occupancy rates are a decent amount higher than I had in mind to be honest. I think I've seen your place in Sicamous. Is it one of the condos with the tall / long garages? My biggest concern right now is the real estate bubble in these areas, and more specifically is this a bubble, or if prices are just going to remain this high due to inflation. I am concerned they have been driven up substantially in the last two years due to COVID, and the lack of international travel for many. Will that inflated value burn off though? I wish I had a crystal ball.

When you're talking 15% ROI, is that income minus mortgage and expenses? Gross or net? Assuming I decide to go down this road, I'm looking at mortgaging and leveraging the capital I do have to buy 2-3 properties to make a run at it for the next couple of years. Seems I have the potential to do better here that just sticking it in an index fund or something.

 

[tejay]

Maybe ask @tejay about short term rentals in Revelstoke

Here’s the short term rental competition starting at 64,500 a week. Assessed and taxed as “residential”

Bighorn Revelstoke, British Columbia, Holiday Letting, Vacation Rentals Canada

Bighorn in Revelstoke, British Columbia Canada with 8 bedrooms 8 Bathrooms sleeps 16.

www.dreamexoticrentals.com

 

[lilduke]

Here’s the short term rental competition starting at 64,500 a week. Assessed and taxed as “residential”

Bighorn Revelstoke, British Columbia, Holiday Letting, Vacation Rentals Canada

Bighorn in Revelstoke, British Columbia Canada with 8 bedrooms 8 Bathrooms sleeps 16.

www.dreamexoticrentals.com

You could use a few more on your street i thought? Haha

 

[tejay]

You could use a few more on your street i thought? Haha

Unknown how many there are here but reports are 500+ with most of them illegal . Many are respectful but some are brain dead absentee owners .( and tenants )

 

[ferniesnow]

My biggest concern right now is the real estate bubble in these areas, and more specifically is this a bubble, or if prices are just going to remain this high due to inflation. I am concerned they have been driven up substantially in the last two years due to COVID, and the lack of international travel for many.

A big driving factor in the North Okanagan/Shuswap has been the relocation of people from the lower mainland. Not so much anything to due with COVID. People are cashing in on the prices in the lower mainland and buying throughout the Interior at much cheaper than what they sold for. A lot of retired people and many people who can work from home with technology being what it is. They are into a similar housing situation, quieter area, and have a fair amount of cash left over for a great life style.
I have said it before, contractors in Salmon Arm don't even have the framing completed and the house sells. Many in our subdivision have explained that whole scenario to me. There is a large shortage of available housing for buying and/or renting. I do not know about the sort term rental business like Maxwell is into but with the way the development plans are flying around Sicamous, I would think someone is counting on summer and winter recreation to be a continued trend.
If interest rates take a jump, there may be properties available as there would be some people who are a little over extended.

 

[pano-dude]

friends were looking a place in Golden, a double wide fixxer upper trailer on a foundation was listed for 409k last week they offered asking price and were told there were other offers higher. Sold for over 600k....

 

[tejay]

You could use a few more on your street i thought? Haha

Lil Duke ,here’s your opportunity

Check out this listing

604 Ninth Street, E, Revelstoke, British Columbia V0E2S0

www.realtor.ca

 

[Bnorth]

When we planned for ours I was using ~70% occupancy rate and it has been much higher in the 90+% range. You are really as busy as you want to be with it. We shut it down periodically on the shoulder seasons for a break as we manage ours ourselves. We tend to have shorter term stays in the summer and longer term in the winter but I think in Sicamous you may find the opposite. Everything Maxwell said about reviews is true, they are everything. You want fantastic reviews so you get and maintain superhost status and stay near the top of the algorithm.
As far as the market I feel we are at or near peak house in the Shuswap/ North Okanagan and in a rising interest rate environment prices will stabilize and flat line for a year or two. IMO you may want to delay your entry to the market so that you have some time to consider places instead of getting yourself into a bidding war or bully offer scenario.

 

[maxwell]

Great information, thanks. Your occupancy rates are a decent amount higher than I had in mind to be honest. I think I've seen your place in Sicamous. Is it one of the condos with the tall / long garages? My biggest concern right now is the real estate bubble in these areas, and more specifically is this a bubble, or if prices are just going to remain this high due to inflation. I am concerned they have been driven up substantially in the last two years due to COVID, and the lack of international travel for many. Will that inflated value burn off though? I wish I had a crystal ball.

When you're talking 15% ROI, is that income minus mortgage and expenses? Gross or net? Assuming I decide to go down this road, I'm looking at mortgaging and leveraging the capital I do have to buy 2-3 properties to make a run at it for the next couple of years. Seems I have the potential to do better here that just sticking it in an index fund or something.

Yep those are the ones!

keep in mind those occupancy rates are only during peak season, You can get almost zero bookings Oct-Nov, and April. Which lowers your average occupancy alot. I have never calculated it but i would think closer to 70%

15% ROI is Net after all expenses+mortgage. Thats much better than what you would get if you put that money in the bank

 

[Dawizman]

That's what I sort of figured. With the prices nowadays, I'm looking at a fair bit less that that, however also building equity in the property. I'm also looking at multi unit buildings in some of the cities as a possibility as well, but the ROI seems to be much lower.

 

[Couch]

Good place in a good location at a fair price can do well but as noted earlier there's lots of hidden costs that you have to consider.
Lots of people / sites push high occupancy rates but those are typically high season and not 365.

Our place rents close to 95% mid June to early September buts falls flat after that. We did rent it the first winter but that was a pita as then our schedule had to revolve around the renter's. Now we block out Dec 15-May 15 for our own use do we can come / go as we please and leave everything on its place and the fridge and liquor cabinet stocked.

If you're renting in winter heating cost are crazy - people figure that there's no Xtra fee so doors are left open, heat turned up, dryer runs to dry wet gear, etc. You also need to add in snowclearing which can also be excessive as they're going to complain if decks and all walkway are not cleared or if there car can't get in / out of the driveway.

If you're not there yourself then you need a really good cleaner - likely $150-$180 per clean depending on the size of the place.
We have 3 night minimum - any less and $$$ gets chewed up in cleaning and broken stays.

Won't make you rich but ours pays the mortgage, resort fees, insurance, utilities, etc and a bit of $ of the end - biggest part is that it's an asset that pays for itself plus we get some benefit ....

 

[bobsledder]

Short Term Rentals

www.sicamous.ca

For you guys looking at doing this in Sicamous do your homework and provide feedback at the link above. The council wants to limit the number of short term rentals. I was at the DOS planning committee meeting and they are proposing a 1700 licence fee and have met with Airbnb to find out which properties in Sicamous are on that platform. Some councillors think that 1700 is not enough and that it should be equivalent to the property tax. There is a belief in this town that short term rentals are the cause of a housing shortage putting the cost of home out of reach for locals.

 

[lilduke]

I llike old fashion long term rental properties. Sure youre not making as much per a night, but youre also not dealing with cleaners and people coming and going every fkn day.
Sounds like a PITA to me.



Joe shmuks is for sale in sicamous. 1.7million.

Turn key operation. If youre looking to be a hotel/motel guy/short term guy

 

[maxwell]

I llike old fashion long term rental properties. Sure youre not making as much per a night, but youre also not dealing with cleaners and people coming and going every fkn day.
Sounds like a PITA to me.



Joe shmuks is for sale in sicamous. 1.7million.

Turn key operation. If youre looking to be a hotel/motel guy/short term guy

i have multiple long term rentals in the edmonton area. I would hands down 1000x over prefer AIRBNB over the long terms. Full time tenants are an absolute nightmare, granted some are great but ive had far more worse ones than good ones. if you offer a good product, AIRBNB tenants seem to take care of the property and if you have it setup properly its quite literally hands off. Cant beat credit card payments right to your bank account before the person even shows up

 

[lilduke]

i have multiple long term rentals in the edmonton area. I would hands down 1000x over prefer AIRBNB over the long terms. Full time tenants are an absolute nightmare, granted some are great but ive had far more worse ones than good ones. if you offer a good product, AIRBNB tenants seem to take care of the property and if you have it setup properly its quite literally hands off. Cant beat credit card payments right to your bank account before the person even shows upe

Forsure, some renters can be a night mare. Might find better tenants in sicamous or similar resort town than Edmonton though. But maybe not.

Farm land is the best thing to rent out.

Nothing to wreck and the farmer usually pays lol

 

[Cableguy]

wealthiest guy I know owns parking lots in downtown Vancouver
That is the best Roi I have ever seen
tow companies pay him to patrol it and he gets day/monthly rates and evening rates for the sporting events
zero maintanence lol