Riding Area 51

[ACman]

Back door is by a lodge. If you know where the lodge is, head straight north and you’ll be at area 51Hi

Hi - I am owner/operator of mentioned lodge. If you go straight north this is a provincial park. I am reaching out to the snowmobile community to minimize snowmobile use in our area. Increased traffic since we starting operations 20 years ago is negatively impacting our family run business and work site, we all need to go to work. The message we are trying to communicate is we are a postage stamp operation and simple cannot go anywhere else. Unfortunately on Friday Mar 1 3 sledders tracked up 3 of our key safe runs - it seemed intentional, tracks side hilling back and forth. I really appreciate your support. Stay safe out there. Cheers

 

[lilduke]

Hi - I am owner/operator of mentioned lodge. If you go straight north this is a provincial park. I am reaching out to the snowmobile community to minimize snowmobile use in our area. Increased traffic since we starting operations 20 years ago is negatively impacting our family run business and work site, we all need to go to work. The message we are trying to communicate is we are a postage stamp operation and simple cannot go anywhere else. Unfortunately on Friday Mar 1 3 sledders tracked up 3 of our key safe runs - it seemed intentional, tracks side hilling back and forth. I really appreciate your support. Stay safe out there. Cheers

I doubt it was intentional. Thats just how guys ride these days. Probably practicing thier hop overs. Lol


Sorry to hear that though.

 

[ACman]

It's a tough one for sure. Snowmobiling has grown dramatically in popularity recently and so has the performance of the machines. More and more riding areas are closing due to caribou, active logging, etc. Staging areas that were once quiet are now packed. People are exploring further and further than ever before in search of the same as you - fresh tracks.
I do feel - as do many others - that clubs should not be advertising areas that they do not manage. Sending people unaware of the complexities of the more remote zones is bound to cause problems. Education and transparency is key, but you also have the few bad apples that exist in any crowd that tend to wreck it for everyone. I think you'll find most on this forum pretty reasonable and honest people.
I've had lunch with the owners of Monashee at their lodge while sledding in the spring. They seem pretty open and approachable with sledders. Also, I thought it was a nice gesture for Mustang to open their terrain to everyone while they were closed to covid.

Thanks for this conversation. Very much agreed - clubs should not be promoting areas they do not manage, especially as snowmobile tourism. I have been going in circles on this conversation with the RSC. I know Mustangs program well, worked for them in the early days. We would be happy to promote a similar program but our tenure is non-motorized, as is Monashee Provincial Park. You have mentioned some key points - backcountry use has changed, the key is to know where to go and not to go. Who knows - maybe we have crossed paths before ?! I grew up in the Shuswap and have been ski touring 35 years. Cheers

 

[ACman]

I doubt it was intentional. Thats just how guys ride these days. Probably practicing thier hop overs. Lol


Sorry to hear that though.

They crossed our skin tracks and ski tracks. They knew. It will take 60 cm of snow before we can use those runs again.

 

[lilduke]

They crossed our skin tracks and ski tracks. They knew. It will take 60 cm of snow before we can use those runs again.

Ass holes i guess.

 

[ACman]

Be happy to have beers at big eddy pub some time.

Cheers

We still need to have that beer! Just don't get to Rev much in the winter. Aim for summer ?

 

[lilduke]

We still need to have that beer! Just don't get to Rev much in the winter. Aim for summer ?

Sounds good

 

[treeboy]

About 10years ago I heard of some guys actually getting into Area51 through the Pinnacles. It would had been a venture taken by expert riders and Area51 would not be the highlight of the trip. There is huge country back there, far bigger then what most would be willing to take on. Big power is needed to crest some of the chutes and an excellent knowledge of backcountry travel and navigation.
So from what I heard, there is.

The route is full of avi chutes, and definitely is no cake walk to get in there. Also there is a big washout from one of the creeks, in which makes it more of a challenge now.

 

[canuck5]

Thanks for this conversation. Very much agreed - clubs should not be promoting areas they do not manage, especially as snowmobile tourism. I have been going in circles on this conversation with the RSC. I know Mustangs program well, worked for them in the early days. We would be happy to promote a similar program but our tenure is non-motorized, as is Monashee Provincial Park. You have mentioned some key points - backcountry use has changed, the key is to know where to go and not to go. Who knows - maybe we have crossed paths before ?! I grew up in the Shuswap and have been ski touring 35 years. Cheers

Looking at the maps your lodge isn’t in the provincial park correct. Looks like it starts just north of you and wraps around the M lake correct. Is your tenure exclusive or does it just allows you to operate commercially on that land?


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[snoflake]

Thanks for this conversation. Very much agreed - clubs should not be promoting areas they do not manage, especially as snowmobile tourism. I have been going in circles on this conversation with the RSC. I know Mustangs program well, worked for them in the early days. We would be happy to promote a similar program but our tenure is non-motorized, as is Monashee Provincial Park. You have mentioned some key points - backcountry use has changed, the key is to know where to go and not to go. Who knows - maybe we have crossed paths before ?! I grew up in the Shuswap and have been ski touring 35 years. Cheers

Hi AC, what are you saying when you say "clubs should not be promoting areas they do not manage". Your area and area 51 and not the same area. I have been following this thread, and I think your actually enticing more people to come your way, rather than riding area 51 through its normal access via the paint lake route. I think you need to provide a route from the south, that will have the least amount of impact on your runs, and i think there is a route to the north via the cut block with access to M. lake that has been used a common route as to not impact your runs. Sledders are not out to tear up ski runs, and there is a ton of area that can be used by both skiers and sledders with minimal impact to each other. if there are two routes identified, you may be surprised how most sledders will actively assist with enforcing sledders to stay on the routes identified.

Just some opinions and observations.

 

[ACman]

Hi AC, what are you saying when you say "clubs should not be promoting areas they do not manage". Your area and area 51 and not the same area. I have been following this thread, and I think your actually enticing more people to come your way, rather than riding area 51 through its normal access via the paint lake route. I think you need to provide a route from the south, that will have the least amount of impact on your runs, and i think there is a route to the north via the cut block with access to M. lake that has been used a common route as to not impact your runs. Sledders are not out to tear up ski runs, and there is a ton of area that can be used by both skiers and sledders with minimal impact to each other. if there are two routes identified, you may be surprised how most sledders will actively assist with enforcing sledders to stay on the routes identified.

Just some opinions and observations.

Correct. Area 51 is outside of our tenure. My point is that promoting Area 51 may be driving traffic to an area that has poor access that is not maintained. There is plenty of riding out there - but access seems to be the pinch point. Yes for sure alternate access would be up N. Fosthall and up on to Paint Lakes plateau, but looks to be challenging riding (or used to be...!) and condition dependant. The problem with showing a route near the lodge is while some will be considerate and stick to it, others will not and trash core ski terrain. Thanks for the conversation and suggestion.

 

[ACman]

Looking at the maps your lodge isn’t in the provincial park correct. Looks like it starts just north of you and wraps around the M lake correct. Is your tenure exclusive or does it just allows you to operate commercially on that land?


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Correct. Our lodge is outside the provincial park. Tenures are non-exclusive, similar to forest tenures etc. Yes our tenure allows us to operate a non-motorized commercial operation. Snowmobile tracks on ski runs make areas non-operable and pose a safety issue (we had a guide tweak a knee last year crossing a track in bad light). A good analogy would be a forest tenure, by all means public are permitted access but not permitted to remove the tenured timber resource. Thank you for the conversation.

 

[snoflake]

I know the area very well, and I know how sledders traverse terrain. Without suggested routes with soft boundaries, people are going to explore. and rest assured, more will be coming your way. If they don't know what are your runs, and what may be a "suggested path" you will continue to have issues. It's not your ski area sledders are interested in, your area happens to be on the way to the area sledders are wanting to explore.

 

[greenthumb]

Do you have any signage indicating the borders of your tenure?

 

[ACman]

Do you have any signage indicating the borders of your tenure?

Yes I do, multiple points along main access to lodge - signage seems to have reduced traffic. Recent tracks Mar 1 came from the south where we do not have signage. But ski tracks make it pretty obvious! And there is PLENTY of riding to the south, including big burn area. They did exit that way as well.

 

[canuck5]

I have rode 51 a lot over the past 20 years I have to think a maybe a more defined sign at 16.8 where the rode splits to your lodge and paint lake might help. We have slid out the back side of paint onto your rode and I don’t remember seeing to much signage. MPS has more signage around there defined runs.


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[treeboy]

Acman being you have a non exclusive tenure use, you are going to get motorized traffic. You should show what areas you would like people to try and respect, also work together with the snowmobile clubs around you. Complaining and getting mad about it will get you nowhere.
MPS and other outfits worked with us, and most of us respect their skiing terrain.

 

[oler1234]

Wow dudes trying to educate and everyone has a excuse for some tracks.

This is a common problem in golden. Signage is the only real solution. In the past when the club would get involved, that would bring MoRE people into the area from curiosity.

Who gives a crap what this man’s tenure is. Ultimately it’s his family business and anyone here would do the same to protect there invested interest. spreading awareness on a forum is a good approach. Further that with mor signage in the area and hopefully it will dwindle.

Currently all the excuses will drive a guy to go to the government and lock down more back country. Pick your battles and move on.

 

[bobsledder]

I would respect his tenure for sure, I think most would. Easy to not know where boundaries are but that isn't an excuse.

 

[ACman]

I have rode 51 a lot over the past 20 years I have to think a maybe a more defined sign at 16.8 where the rode splits to your lodge and paint lake might help. We have slid out the back side of paint onto your rode and I don’t remember seeing to much signage. MPS has more signage around there defined runs.


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Thankyou for the input. We have recently added signage on our access road. It is not possible for us to post signage beyond roads as we are non-motorized, whereas MPS has snow cat access. I think geo referenced mapping is the answer over signage, and is the current standard - the challenge is ensuring all users utilize the same map. We have posted an Area 51 direction sign at the 16.8 Lime Kiln junction twice, and has been removed each time. I very much appreciate your support. Cheers