Red line turbo kits

[Bnorth]

Umm pretty sure the coyote is a 4 stroke engine.............

Good job listening and learning.

 

[skegpro]

Good job listening and learning.

Well he said we weren't talking 4 stroke turbos, I learnt that engine is a 4 stroke......

I still want to hear how you can put much larger injectors in and still not over fuel on the low end? As I understand injectors only have so much turndown aka pulse width.
Can someone please clarify I am interested.

 

[Tuesday]

We’re not talking about stupid 4 strokes here for one. Using larger injectors down NOT make it run like **** a bad tuner makes it run like **** or a box that doesn’t have full control. The at the automotive stuff stock junkyard LS and coyote engines throw a turbo on it larger injectors and HP tuners 800-1000 wheel ho all the time. My Axys with larger injectors runs stock sled clean isles good and can hit the throttle nothing to wide open as fast as you want and on and off as much as you want. 50 plus days riding the mtntk Axys not once has it ever had a bog. Even all the non turbo guys or haters in our grip say if they do a trunk it be a mtntk and they all wish mtntk made turbos for the 8****ty too

I have some great deals on the RB3 that works with awesome with big injectors. Interested in a bulk buy?

 

[canuck5]

I have some great deals on the RB3 that works with awesome with big injectors. Interested in a bulk buy?

I hear they work great on 1000hp two smokers!

 

[canuck5]

We’re not talking about stupid 4 strokes here for one. Using larger injectors down NOT make it run like **** a bad tuner makes it run like **** or a box that doesn’t have full control. The at the automotive stuff stock junkyard LS and coyote engines throw a turbo on it larger injectors and HP tuners 800-1000 wheel ho all the time. My Axys with larger injectors runs stock sled clean isles good and can hit the throttle nothing to wide open as fast as you want and on and off as much as you want. 50 plus days riding the mtntk Axys not once has it ever had a bog. Even all the non turbo guys or haters in our grip say if they do a trunk it be a mtntk and they all wish mtntk made turbos for the 8****ty too

Last time I checked 4 strokes are still engines that can "bog" if afr are incorrect. We are talking about how these sleds came to run aftermarket injectors in the first place factory injectors would run out of fuel at high boost bigger injectors in stock location were known to run rich and like garbage.

 

[deaner]

Wouldnt an automotive application be much more forgiving as far as the throttle response needed? I cant think of anything more unforgiving than the snowmobile market. Even the slightest bog at the wrong time can cause all kinds of problems.

 

[Bnorth]

Well he said we weren't talking 4 stroke turbos, I learnt that engine is a 4 stroke......

I still want to hear how you can put much larger injectors in and still not over fuel on the low end? As I understand injectors only have so much turndown aka pulse width.
Can someone please clarify I am interested.

To a point yes. Since we're mixing cars and sleds and 2 vs 4 stroke (or skinny chicks vs big chicks apparently) now there are different styles of injectors. High impedance (saturated) injectors like the common bosch style on sleds have less control than low impedance (peak and hold) injectors. Low impedance require more current to open and as such move faster offering more control. Most big horsepower car guys running boost also use boost referenced fuel pressure control so at low boost or vacuum they run less fuel pressure and can get away using big injectors with limited pulse width and then can ramp up fuel pressure to get more flow at high boost.

 

[Tuesday]

Wouldnt an automotive application be much more forgiving as far as the throttle response needed? I cant think of anything more unforgiving than the snowmobile market. Even the slightest bog at the wrong time can cause all kinds of problems.

Yes the 2s are much more finiky to tune with such a small power band. Slightest bog is going to effect them more. Some of the sledding information will be pulled from 4s applications as they hands down have had the most time in mountains. With a broad power band and ability to push through rich conditions it was an easier set up to tackle. 2s turbo set ups are still cutting their teeth a bit but every year they are making leaps. Want the cleaniest super snappy bottom end in a 2s ride stock. Want more power overall and can ride/clutch past the initial resistance then turbo is for you. Original 4s turbos also had this lag and some kits were better than others. The new sidewinder is an absolute marvel. Extremely little lag, super snappy, better handling and now with in 50lbs of a stock 850. Riders can say what they want but the gap is now closer than ever. I was wavering at the beginning of the year but went back to a SW, more power, engine durability is proven, handling and weight is close enough.
Cheers.

 

[skegpro]

To a point yes. Since we're mixing cars and sleds and 2 vs 4 stroke (or skinny chicks vs big chicks apparently) now there are different styles of injectors. High impedance (saturated) injectors like the common bosch style on sleds have less control than low impedance (peak and hold) injectors. Low impedance require more current to open and as such move faster offering more control. Most big horsepower car guys running boost also use boost referenced fuel pressure control so at low boost or vacuum they run less fuel pressure and can get away using big injectors with limited pulse width and then can ramp up fuel pressure to get more flow at high boost.

Ok so which injectors come stock on a sled?

Here is my question.

Your factory injectors have x amount of mass flow rate and a minimum mass flow rate.

If you simply put in bigger injectors wouldn't they have a bigger maximum mass flow rate as well as a higher minimum mass flow rate.
Unless the sled was running lean on the bottom end to begin with how can it handle the extra fuel?

IMO you don't need the fuel on the bottom end till you start building boost, then you need lots more.

So what's the best way to tackle that?

1 set of big injectors?

Or two sets of smaller injectors that can yield the same mass flow rate as the big injectors?
(Why did the doo 850 go this way?)

 

[Bnorth]

Ok so which injectors come stock on a sled?

Not sure, but nearly all vehicle oem's use high impedance as they are simpler and cheaper.

Here is my question.

Your factory injectors have x amount of mass flow rate and a minimum mass flow rate.

If you simply put in bigger injectors wouldn't they have a bigger maximum mass flow rate as well as a higher minimum mass flow rate.
Unless the sled was running lean on the bottom end to begin with how can it handle the extra fuel?

The problem here is that you are assuming the stock injectors are required to operate at their minimum flow rate which is likely not the case. A bigger injector can likely be operated to provide as little fuel as required by the motor in vacuum as long as it is not hugely larger than the stock injector.

IMO you don't need the fuel on the bottom end till you start building boost, then you need lots more.

So what's the best way to tackle that?

1 set of big injectors?

I'm partial to one set of large injectors unless they require too large a spread in flow rates then run staged injectors with small primary injectors and then larger secondary injectors that come on as needed.

Or two sets of smaller injectors that can yield the same mass flow rate as the big injectors?
(Why did the doo 850 go this way?)

So now we are also bringing direct injection into the mix. They do not use conventional fuel injectors and technology has not evolved enough to produce direct injection that flows high rates of fuel. They are limited to being rather small and as such we see boost injectors in high performance applications and added via the aftermarket when certain oem applications cannot meet big power requirements.

My belief is the 850 runs boost injectors because the voice coil direct injectors cannot respond quick enough for the desired throttle response and can not flow enough to support the top end so they take some of the load off the direct injection system.

Responses in red.

I think we will see someone crack the 850 ecm and reduce primary (direct injection) fueling to compensate the low end for the added restriction of the turbo system and then install larger boost injectors to supply the additional fuel required for throttle response and top end performance.

 

[skegpro]

Responses in red.

I think we will see someone crack the 850 ecm and reduce primary (direct injection) fueling to compensate the low end for the added restriction of the turbo system and then install larger boost injectors to supply the additional fuel required for throttle response and top end performance.

Sliber did this........

 

[ktmsx350f]

Ok so which injectors come stock on a sled?

Here is my question.

Your factory injectors have x amount of mass flow rate and a minimum mass flow rate.

If you simply put in bigger injectors wouldn't they have a bigger maximum mass flow rate as well as a higher minimum mass flow rate.
Unless the sled was running lean on the bottom end to begin with how can it handle the extra fuel?

IMO you don't need the fuel on the bottom end till you start building boost, then you need lots more.

So what's the best way to tackle that?

1 set of big injectors?

Or two sets of smaller injectors that can yield the same mass flow rate as the big injectors?
(Why did the doo 850 go this way?)

Duty cycle is deceased in the map for larger injectors low end. I will put 1000 dollars on it now you can’t find a sled with a box that’s runs cleaner then my mtntk Axys. I let 5 guys try it this trip for a tips all were blown away how fast it spoils and how clean throttle response it. Oh and with the bully dog you can pull timing so I’m running almost straight pump gas which gives best throttle response and still running 8 psi and it pulls harder then some other kits that need AV or race mix at like 6 and above.

 

[ktmsx350f]

So we put a good sold day on the bd setup on the same sled today we had my Axys Mtntk up and the now bd XM. Everyone that tried the redline setup jumped on for a rip today for an honest comparison. Everyone agreed that the Boondocker was spent on no stumble no bog almost as good as a flash tune. The Mtntk with the efr turno does pull a little harder on 8 psi but was compairable paper for sure but we did mix in the race to the Boondocker about 40%. And about 5L max in the Mtntk setup

 

[landontofsrud03]

Chiming in a little late here.

I am the the guy that bought this kit that there was so much questions about. Today was my first ride on it. I didn’t notice an issue. The kit was seamless install. Every thing works as advertised. And install is clean. @ KTMSX350f I don’t see any issues with it. Perhaps comparing your kit on the axys to this kit is apples and oranges.

I’m very happy with it and does exactly as it was advertised. I’ve never met Dave but know many who have I feel your experience could possible be a personal issue. Kits fine; runs great. Sure some small issues when hot on bottom as gargle with the high elevation kit but none the less that will be splitting hairs to be chewing ass about that.

If you want a perfect running boosted engine. My suggestion is build the engine to suit. Perhaps something was not right with the engine. But I don’t see any problems; it’s exactly as you told me when I bought it from you. Fast spoiling. Great AFR and pulls hard.

Im happy you told me that and that’s what I’ve experienced. Just shocked that the sale did not entail the feelings expressed in the last 100 posts.

You sold me on the kit as it was great. My experience is just. Seeing the posts here are shocking. I did wait to test it to be sure and im not sold on what’s being communicated here.


Thaks for the great kit though. Im happy with it.

 

[skegpro]

Chiming in a little late here.

I am the the guy that bought this kit that there was so much questions about. Today was my first ride on it. I didn’t notice an issue. The kit was seamless install. Every thing works as advertised. And install is clean. @ KTMSX350f I don’t see any issues with it. Perhaps comparing your kit on the axys to this kit is applies and oranges.

I’m very happy with it and does exactly as it was advertised. I’ve never met Dave but know many who have I feel your experience could possible be a personal issue. Kits fine runs great. Sure some small issues when hot on bottom as gargle with the high elevation kit but none the less that will be splitting hairs to be chewing ass about that.

If you want a perfect running boosted engine. My suggestion is build the engine to suit. Perhaps something was with the engine. But I don’t see any problems other than it’s exactly as you told me when I bought it from you. Fast spoiling. Great AFR and pulls hard.

Im happy you told me that and that’s what I’ve experienced. Just shocked that the sale did not entail the feelings expressed in the last 100 posts.

You sold me on the kit as it was great. My experience is just. Seeing the posts here are shocking. I did wait to test it to be sure and im not sold on what’s being communicated here.


Thaks for the great kit though. Im happy with it.

Haha, hopefully he gave you a sweet deal for it being such a POS.

 

[andrew3399]

Sure some small issues when hot on bottom as gargle with the high elevation kit but none the less that will be splitting hairs to be chewing ass about that.

Can you explain more what these small issues are? Meaning low end bog?

 

[landontofsrud03]

I didn’t notice anything more than small garble. I was understanding it it because the high elevation kit. There was no bog. Ran very well. Not too sure what other issues were had before but I must say I’m very pleased.

 

[fredw]

Happy you told it like it was, I wanted to tell it but it was not the same comming from me.. dave is a stellar guy and will stand behind his products..

Chiming in a little late here.

I am the the guy that bought this kit that there was so much questions about. Today was my first ride on it. I didn’t notice an issue. The kit was seamless install. Every thing works as advertised. And install is clean. @ KTMSX350f I don’t see any issues with it. Perhaps comparing your kit on the axys to this kit is applies and oranges.

I’m very happy with it and does exactly as it was advertised. I’ve never met Dave but know many who have I feel your experience could possible be a personal issue. Kits fine runs great. Sure some small issues when hot on bottom as gargle with the high elevation kit but none the less that will be splitting hairs to be chewing ass about that.

If you want a perfect running boosted engine. My suggestion is build the engine to suit. Perhaps something was with the engine. But I don’t see any problems other than it’s exactly as you told me when I bought it from you. Fast spoiling. Great AFR and pulls hard.

Im happy you told me that and that’s what I’ve experienced. Just shocked that the sale did not entail the feelings expressed in the last 100 posts.

You sold me on the kit as it was great. My experience is just. Seeing the posts here are shocking. I did wait to test it to be sure and im not sold on what’s being communicated here.


Thaks for the great kit though. Im happy with it.

 

[skegpro]

I didn’t notice anything more than small garble. I was understanding it it because the high elevation kit. There was no bog. Ran very well. Not too sure what other issues were had before but I must say I’m very pleased.

The 800 etec had a low end garble even with the wrong can.....

 

[LBZ]

The 800 etec had a low end garble even with the wrong can.....

Some. Not all. Not sure why.