REBUILD OR SHORT BLOCK TIME, Crank CHECK.....09 XP 4000KM

[TPOWER]

So this is the situation, im gonna start Tearing top end down tomorrow and any help will be greatly appreciated.
Starters, it is an 09 162x2.5 with 4000km''s on it runs good but we only have 101psi PTO and 120 Mag side, ID DID MULTIPLE COMPRESSION TEST, WITH THROTTLE HELD OPEN, CLOSED, ANOTHER SLED ETC. SO IM SURE MY NUMBERS and gaugeqwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaTIS SLED AT THE END OF LAST SEASON MY BUDDY FLY FROM NS 5-6 TRIPS A YEAR, SO WE WERE HOPING TO GET THIS YEAR OUT OF IT BEFORE SPENDING BIG BUCKS.

I have done lots of top ends, short blocks but i havent done a crank yet , due to usually a top end costing about a grand so i always opted to put the short block in for 2g but now that short blocks for xps are 3g if u can even find one, im gonna have to way out all options. sorry for long post before even getting into it just want to be clear on my rationality on which route to go

1) pistons/rings set and gasgets $300ish from Kore
2) does cylinder need renicled?????was taught if compression is 100 then yes, im border line cyl $650

Before i tear top end done, other than checing crank run out, is ther any other crank checks i can do at this stage, i just dont want to get cylinders off and some one say y didnt u do this check first......is there any crank check too do before removing cylinders, or after cylinders what am i looking for other than obvious play in connecting rod, if i dont have to remove engine id rather not just my preverence, i relize it has to be removed if crank need to be replaced.
So what i really need to know at the moment is there any other crank checks other than run out and or removing the crank completely.
Thanks for any and all help. Maxwell if ur reading this, it is the holtz u build last year for Brandon. (fyi this is in no way negative to Maxwell or Brandon)

 

[maxwell]

crank runout, regrease pto and mag bearings, throw a set of pistons in it providing the cylinders have no damage. it is a 2009 it doesnt have the notorious failing crank from 2008. however these things still happen. im going on 6600km now on my origional crank and pistons. i cant see why you wont get at least another 2000-3000 out of that whole engine once you freshen up the top end. a friend of mine just put a set of MCBS in his in the middle of last season. he had about 6500km. put another 1000 on and its still working for him. sorry about the sled. we took very good care of that thing and hate to see that happen. never did a compression test on it, never had a reason too it was always kicking my butt. possibly because i have 60lbs on brandon.

i think 4000km is far to early to consider a shortblock unless you have a total engine failure.

curious as to what others would do in this situation.

strange how some go the distance on one set of pistons and the next will fall below the threshold.

ps. throw up a photo of the pistons when you get them out.

 

[TPOWER]

Thks maxwell , I like the positive thinking so does my buddy bck east lol, only got try sled here on flat land and it ripped , I did a compression just to see due to the 4000 kms which we fully expected atleast a freshen up, we are happy with sled it was a great deal knowing how much the mods where and build time , thats y we grabbed it .can't wait to get it to mountains , yeh im scared my buddy gonna kick my ass with it too and i have an 860 so i ordered the narrow stance and sliding a 162 x treextree under mine lol . So I will do run out for starters and keep info posted , plus piston pics etc I think I'm gonna go at it this morning. Any other opinions out there ,

 

[teeroy]

shortblock is 3K up front, and 900 back to you for the core if the crank and bottom end aren't hooched. it was a little over 900 bucks for a complete top end, and 2100 (after core return) for a shortblock and a year warranty so I went the shortblock route on my '08.

edit; when I pulled my engine pto side of the crank was full of grease and runout was acceptable, but a shitload of isoflex was in behind the recoil in the adapter plate

 

[oler1234]

i'm with maxwell on this one, i got 5500km on my bottom end and 4800 of those are with a big bore. Not sure why everyone says ticking time bomb but i could be wrong this season. Myself i am just gonna a seal and isoflex on PTO side only. Crank run out is well within spec for me. Give it good warm ups before you start rippin, run sythetic oil, you will be fine.

Hell one of the BB in our group with 3500km last season ate a piston ring, we freshened up the top end and it is still running with 4700km on it. If it aint broke, why fix it and spend the money.

Are short blocks that hard to come by already?? i mean they are still making the ptek for this season no?

 

[maxwell]

i just ordered 2 shortblocks today...they are readily available here in edmonton....

 

[TPOWER]

Well this is where im at did crank run out, and it is 000 at 1/8 in, I know everyone jump on that and say ive never seen a brand new crank with no runout, i clamped gauge bracket to engine side of foot rest will post pic and reached over and used pull cord and pulled slowly, i did 2 revolutions each time then made sure gauge was touching crank and re zeroed, i repeated test like 20 times, 1 inch in i got .010, there is no signs of isoflex splatter on back of clutch or engine face at crank, so this is good news, i pulled cylinders, i havent pulled pistons off yet but here are pics cylinders look great , i took to shop today and under close observation and light there is one little spot that looks like nickasil is almost worn through. In his opinion he said He said if it was him he would renickasil.he also said 4000km is nothing to be concerned about Maxwell just for info purposes how much are short blocks this year. Whenever i have done just cylinder replacement the price has been 6-650 exchange but they all had gouges etc on walls, is it cheaper to just renick, i thought it was the same price no matter what . heres some pics, x is the 105 side

 

[fiasco123]

i dont have to remove engine id rather not just my preverence, i relize it has to be removed if crank need to be replaced.
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[takethebounce]

TPOWER, did you preload the dial indicator? If there was no resistance on the end of the indicator, when you rotated the crank it might have already been resting.
Also ensure the dial indicator is placed 1/8" from end of stub. Maximum deflection PTO side is 0.06mm (.0024)

Your Starrett is good, but its better to have a guage that reads .0005", its also good to bolt the dial indicator to the motor so you are not seeing any engine movement.

You can also use your clutch bolt to turn the crank over from the PTO side, rather than trying to pull the starter rope.

If there is no excessive wear on the cyclinders, have them honed by a shop who can hone nickasil coatings and drop a set of new piston/rings in.

Is your nicasil wear down near the bottom of the cylinder, or near the exhaust ports? If so, it can be common to wear there as the piston/rings wear and rock back and forth. After seeing several of these motors torn down after 1000-1500 kms they will wear.

If your crank is still within spec, freshen up the top end and enjoy the winter.

 

[maxwell]

they still arent cheap....about 2900$ - 700 core = 2200-2300 depending on dealer......id get the cylinders re nicd. not sure what the turnaround is on having them done on the ones you have from a place like mellenium or something?

so i suppose your looking at 600 for cylinder exchange? and 400 for pistons and gaskets.....1000$..........cant remember what just having them re nicd costs its been a long time.

 

[bstienwand]

Nice sled! 

 

[Johnny]

I just got turned on to CVTech-AAB from back east, I hear they are a reputable business and a friend is becoming a distributor here in BC for them, check them out

 

[TPOWER]

Thanks bstienwand, i dont know how u could of parted with such a beauty ,
Thanks for all the input, TTB yes i rezeroed gauge each time i did the test and it had tension on it before rezeroing , thats why i did it apprx 20 times at 1/8 in. i couldnt see any movement in gauge . Well im going to take soap/water and green scouring pad and clean them up and deglaze as per pic and assess from there. I called a couple places today cv-tech and states they both said its same price scared or not. so apprx 6-650 exchange or renic.
So these r the choices, usually we just go short block cause up untill early last year u could get it for under 2g then they jacked the prices 400 each,
1) $350 pistons/rings if deglaze looks alright ....that be awesome
2) $1000 P/R Cylinder......at this point consider short block
3) consider big bore but i got something else planed for next year.
we usuually dont cheap out but in the back of my mind id like to pick up an etec at end of next season and swap everthing out then sell the etec model with 800r engine, i figure pick up stock etec for 9g then switch over everthing and resell it for 6500 so it only cost 2500 to switch over then possible turbo if reliability is out by then, but i guess all and all 1000 right now isnt that bad. We are already throwing another 2 g at this sled plus head and boss noss which we have.So im trying to keep his budget low. lol He does live in Nova Scotia and flies out 5 or 6 trips a year just to go sledding. He hasnt even ridden this beast yet.

 

[BRP QSC]

Ya your about 12-1600 to do a refresh with all the extras and I found that if im going to spend over $1200 on engine refresh.. then replace it or leave it. like someone said before..... if it isnt broke dont touch it. Mine has 3000 miles on engine with no leaks and good compression and I dont bag it. So this year is a clutch rebuild and the regular maintenance stuff. the question is what led you to pull it apart?

 

[maxwell]

low compression in one cylinder. or both. cant remember

 

[TPOWER]

sorry guys busy at work ni time to snow mud lol, yes i had 105 on pto and 125 on mag, decision made wieghing all out regrease and throw a new set of dbl ring coated mcb's from kore.

Thanks guys for all opions and experiences.

Now its time to spend some money on this beast for the little things that Brandon wouldn't pony up the money so Maxwell could finish it. lol. Maxwell dont u hate building when your buddy puts u on a budget. lol Brandon im just jokin its a beautiful chasis with top quality suspension front to back. Ill be starting a new thread with 3 builds i'm putting the final touches on from last year, even the Copper X is going under stretch surgery.

 

[bstienwand]

Haha it's a good thing I am working this weekend cause I have already started to pour money into a sled I don't even have yet

 

[maxwell]

haha i didnt think he cut any corners on that one. what are you adding? it didnt have any power adders. but thats about all i can think thats missing lol.

brandon doesnt cheap out on sleds LOL. on the other hand check out my other thread with the other sled i put together ...LOL..that guy knows how to cheap out on a sled

 

[TPOWER]

No i know that wasnt a cheap build, im just pokin at Brandon, which other build u talkin, i seen the painted tunnel thread last night, i will be starting another thread this week with the finishing touches which is....
DJ kit
Terra Head 13.5
Boysen Reeds
Full Dynoport
Boss Noss
Boss seat
Powder keg fuel storage (just bottom half)
AND AN AIR FRESHNER TO FINISH HER OFF LOL
Man did i ever score a deal yesterday for the our back up which the holz has replaced , its 07 Rev 154 xp track full powder coat one i did last year, the ad was like 20 min old and i scored stock 159 rails/hifaxes, tunnel ext new, 162 x2.5 camo new, 8 tooth drivers on the hex shaft new, $800 delivered to my garage that night. the track has the sticker on it so buddy couldnt of ran it. He said he had it on his renegade but there r 2 lugs across from each other cut with a knife down about 1/4 inch, i think he installed it some how got the track jammed in there started the machine and tried to move it across the shop floor and she bound up and he had to cut the two lugs so he could get the driver back out. I know i can never find these deals with my personal sled, i always end up paying full price. ill be able to sell the rails, track and shaft with drivers coming out for 700-800. i scored the dyno stuff too for 500 shipped.

 

[TPOWER]

Haha it's a good thing I am working this weekend cause I have already started to pour money into a sled I don't even have yet

Right on keep the faith man, when we do go etec i really believe we will just buy 2 used and swap etec parts in the holz and the copper x, then sell the etec chasis with 800r in them .