Question for all you Hardcore BackCountry Riders...

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Look over your shoulder....I'll be there with you; with the same perspective.

 

[Uturn]

If my wife and kids asked me not to go because of the increased risk, I wouldn't go, plain and simple.

Our rule in our group is that if one person feels we shouldn't ride an area, we don't. We don't want someone riding and being uncomfortable and not paying attention. It is an all or none decision. We've tested this, but always remind ourselves, all or none and ride another day.

 

[ZRrrr]

YOUR BIGGEST RISK IN ANY OUTDOOR ADVENTURE IS THE DRIVE YOU MAKE TO THE START OF THE TRAIL!

“It's a fact....you are more likely to be killed or injured while driving to and from the activity”
“I liken this to bear attacks. More people are killed driving to the trail head than are attacked by bears each year”.
********************************************************
ZRrrr…I think this needs to be clarified right now before someone else gets killed using your statistics to justify their actions. It is not safer to ride in the backcountry than to drive there. You are making a big mistake by using this old wives tale…You simply can not compare the numbers of backcountry sledding deaths and traffic fatalities nor can you compare grizzly attacks to traffic fatalities and doing so may lead people to a false sense of security. First off traffic collisions are not “accidents”. Collisions are predictable and preventable. Calling a crash an accident implies no one is to blame and that the event was an act of fate. The key is to understand why and how they happen and take action to avoid and prevent them. Actions such as avoiding drinking alcohol stop at stop signs, speed, wearing seatbelts. Avalanches are similar; they are predictable and preventable by avoiding behaviours such as high marking, riding steep terrain, riding when conditions are unstable, etc. Statistically about 10 in every 100,000 drivers will be killed in fatal collisions yet we have had at least 10 sledders killed in the last month and there certainly were not 100,000 sledders riding in the backcountry in that period of time. Of course more people are killed on the roads than are killed by grizzlies! I have traditionally spent the entire fall guiding in grizzly country and see a handful of people. On the drive home I am surrounded by drivers that definitely have a greater chance of being killed by fatal collisions than being killed by a grizzly. They also have a higher risk of being murdered! Everybody needs to stop using this old wives tale. These avalanches much like fatal motor vehicle collisions are predictable and preventable in most cases, if we avoided the terrain that will allow and avalanche you would not be killed by one period. Don’t get me wrong I love to ride the most difficult and challenging terrain and I have a group of very experienced riders I associate with and ride with. We all know the inherit risks even when the snow pack is more stable. We very carefully select where we go and after what has happened this year tread very carefully.

""since those that want to be out there will have (or should have) educated themselves.""

I agree with you to a certain extent, but disagree with your statistics. I have many books here on my shelf that discuss the risks associated with outdoor activities (part of a volunteer organization I was a a part of once). As a matter of fact, you have a pretty high risk of being killed crossing a marked cross walk! But I'm no here to argue that point. Not everything in life is predictable and preventable, but we all know education is key to prevention. My intent was not to convince people to take risks based on facts, but rather not getting caught up in the hype that the media can propogate. Educate yourself and know your limits! As evidenced by the information here and available publicily, many of these avalanche deaths were preventable, much as you say traffic accidents are. However Mother Nature or some other unatural act can throw a wrench into any situation. So why is one considered more risky than the other!? Point is that in driving, backcountry riding, skiing, camping and so on, it is indeed about knowing limits and knowing as much as you can before you go. Some people should not be riding in high risk areas as much as some people should not be driving, but we all continue to drive and hopefully try to be better defensive drivers all the time.

At no time have I stated anyone should purposely go into an avalanche area! My point is that activities do not have to stop if you are smart about it, and that there are far more risky activities closer to home.

Common sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jeremy]

if i was aked not to go as she feared for my saftey, i wouldn't go!!

especially for those that have kids.......

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

I'm on board with that as well...If my family was that worried...no riding for me.

 

[barefooter]

Well - I have spent the season on the sidelines with a bad back. Sold all of the new gear (trailer, sleds, deck, etc.). After seeing me moping and surfing Snow and Mud and Snowest over Xmas, my wife said that if the doc gave me a green light, I could sled a couple of times this year. I got the tentative green light. I have also been working out like a maniac and she likes the abs!!!:

Sledding for me has more importantly been time with my oldest daughter, rather than time with the boys. So the green light was going to be for two daddy/daughter trips. With the present conditions, we won't be going anywhere until things improve - likely end of Feb or March.

Two things have really stuck me this year. First - the avy at Owl's Head. Although we have never climbed the hill that let loose as St. Onge has always warned me about it, we have played at the bottom watching people climb. I chalked this one up to not knowing the terrain, and not having gear. The Hassler avalance is a different story. That brotha had all the gear, including an ABS pack. I have two sitting n the garage that I bought last spring.... And he didn't make it. That really hit home.

So I know for sure that I would not take my daughter to the mtns until things stabilize - she depends on me for that decision. So would I go? If I wouldn't take my kids - why would I put myself in unnecessary risk? They depend on me to come home - so I won't be going either.

I know life is short - but there are other things to do on the weekends. Go skating. Build snowforts. Play with the Wii. My wife said that this year - even being hurt - I have been twice the father than the last couple of years because I am not always thinking of being on the sled. And you know what - it has been a lot of fun.

 

[jeremy]

if you do go after she asked you not to, you in trouble.

if you go and something happens, then your in even more trouble. or dead.

not worth it for a ride. although I REALLY WANT TO GO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sumx54]

If my family asked me to stay home due to the risk I would most likely stay home. Having said that though I've been married for 14 years and my wife knows the passion and RESPECT I have for the outdoors and extreme sports. She trusts me to make the right decisions while I'm out there to ensure I get home safely.
I'm concerned for my own saftey and my fellow riders a little more so now than any other season. I will be riding very conservative this season and have no plans or goals of getting a little further or a little higher on anything. Just glad to be in the outdoors and enjoying winter in the meadows for now. Ride Smart and Ride Safe everyone.

 

[fnDan]

I sat down with my wife and explained what I learned in the AST1 course.
I pulled up a couple of pics from previous rides and showed her where a potential avy could happen and where I was riding. She was concerned aboout the guys that I ride with triggering an avy and burying me. I explained to her that I can find a safe place to watch from and be out of harms way. I'm not into highmarking like they are.
There have been some brutal avy's this year. I'm going to start practicing everything I was taught in the AST1 class, especially the 1 rider at a time across an avy zone. I send my wife 4 or more OK messages a day with the Spot which makes her very happy.
There's an avy zone on the way in to Quartz that I would normally ride through with the group. Those signs are there for a reason and I think it's time to take them seriously. It's a good drop on the one side if an avy swept you off the trail.
I went through the online course on the avalanche.ca site just to refresh my memory. I like the section that shows a picture and asks you to draw a line with your mouse from point A to B using the safest route. It makes me think about where I ride. I seriously use the Avaluator as well.
I'd better get out and practice with my beacon tonight.
If she's really worried, I will not go.

 

[fnDan]

I am also reading a lot more on rescues and first aid.
This a good article on "conveyor belt shoveling".
http://www.ikar-cisa.org/ikar-cisa/documents/2008/ikar20080406000196.pdf

 

[SLEDBUNNYRACING]

Great article mac900rmk.
Thanks for posting it.

I am also reading a lot more on rescues and first aid.
This a good article on "conveyor belt shoveling".
http://www.ikar-cisa.org/ikar-cisa/documents/2008/ikar20080406000196.pdf

 

[Uturn]

That was very interesting, different than I learned. I think it would be very effective. It needs to be seen by more people, same as the 12 More turns video. Maybe we need an avalanche awareness section.

 

[raceu4it]

have my bowl of common sense every morning before i go riding :d. wouldn't stop me from riding.

 

[Scotford]

I am also reading a lot more on rescues and first aid.
This a good article on "conveyor belt shoveling".
http://www.ikar-cisa.org/ikar-cisa/documents/2008/ikar20080406000196.pdf

Great Article mac....thanks for posting....

I'm seeing a common answer to the question, with a few that a hard to believe, but that was the reason for the thread...

Again Thanks Peeps for you thoughts and keep them coming...

 

[snowzombie]

from Dictonary.com

common sense 
–noun sound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like

Dont fool yourself educate yourself. Your common sense wont allow to read the terain or know what to do if there is a slide.


Like Zrrr said.
"Not everything in life is predictable and preventable, but we all know education is key to prevention. My intent was not to convince people to take risks based on facts, but rather not getting caught up in the hype that the media can propogate. Educate yourself and know your limits! "

You may not be aware of the risks, and think you are being safe when there are risks present, as it was brought up earlier about the trail into riding areas. I triggered a slide in what I thought to be a low risk area. I am hoping that the AST1 course that I am heading to will give me the knowledge to avoid being in that situation again.

 

[glengine]

My theory is the fact that you can go up the mtn's and play even when the avvy hazard is high.. You just have to use your common sense and pay attention to what is around you all the time.. I dont go doin climbin and stuff like that when the hazard is high.. But i'll go up and play in the meadows and stuff like that all day long and have a great time.. I also stay away from the area's that you have to run avvy chutes to get into the area.. From what i've been told to get into horsey creek to have to cross a bad avvy area to get in so i just wouldn't go there.. So for me it's not so much about if you go to the mtn's as where you go and what you do when you are there..

 

[Taz]

My theory is the fact that you can go up the mtn's and play even when the avvy hazard is high.. You just have to use your common sense and pay attention to what is around you all the time.. I dont go doin climbin and stuff like that when the hazard is high.. But i'll go up and play in the meadows and stuff like that all day long and have a great time.. I also stay away from the area's that you have to run avvy chutes to get into the area.. From what i've been told to get into horsey creek to have to cross a bad avvy area to get in so i just wouldn't go there.. So for me it's not so much about if you go to the mtn's as where you go and what you do when you are there..

I totally agree. I think the most important thing I got out of avy training is how to avoid getting in one in the first place.
I forgot to mention my wife has asked me not to go since last year!!!

 

[raustincat]

For as much as I love riding and would go every weekend if I could.... If I were in your shoes with a loving wife and a young son at home that were really really urging me not to go... I wouldn't go. For a number of reasons....

1. Family first, I am not married but I still have parents and a sister... if something happened to me in the mountains .... well you know the rest of that song

2. I would want to be able to be around to see my son grow up and become a man himself.

3. Lets be honest, there is probably something you can do around the house that should have been done months ago but sledding season came along and its been pushed off since November... lol

Yea if I were you I'd kick it at home for a weekend and like stated above... the mountains aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Play safe and keep the shinny side up,
Ryan

 

[ZRrrr]

Again, I am in no way condoning anyone take unaceptable risks in any of lifes activities.

This article was printed in the current issue of Snowtech. Should be in your mailbox today. Some interesting things to think about. Just for interest sake......

Enjoy.

 

[barefooter]

3. Lets be honest, there is probably something you can do around the house that should have been done months ago but sledding season came along and its been pushed off since November... lol /QUOTE]

Ryan:

That is the absolute God's truth!! Too funny