Probate and wills

[Lightningmike]

Just wondering if anyone has come across this before. My Dad was saying tonight that he has been talking with a couple of the banks he deals with and they told him that probate will be guaranteed thing regardless of weather or not our names are on his accounts or not. The land has had our names on it for awhile and seems there is no problem with transition once he passes.


He is pretty scarce with the info he gives me but he is also troubled by what he is hearing. Should he not be able to hand out his estate if it is all laid out prior to his passing without lawyers and banks fighting over it first?

He is pretty concerned about it and I am just trying to help him find out what yo do. Is it certain banks? He has yet to talk to one bank but one for sure said no matter what it would go through probate.

 

[mountianguy]

There is a lot of things coming into play with probate, a couple factors are how much the estate is worth, is there stocks involved? I am no expert but we have been dealing with this also. The bank should be able to tell you what is all included but their opinion is different than the lawyers. It can be a long and drawn out. Even the land with your name on it is a pain, you will most likely need title insurance as land titles is 6-8 months behind. This is all as long as no one contests the will, that's another story. In summary you are dealing with banks ,lawyers, and the government how smooth can you expect it to go?

 

[pfi572]

A good financial adviser / estate planner would be your best bet .
Lawyer as well . Bank is the last place I would be taking advise from unless it’s someone you know and trust .

 

[BILTIT]

A good friend of mine had both her parents pass within 3 months, she is the executer of their estate. She highly recommended to get "Right of Survivorship" on the bank accts etc otherwise the govt gets thier hands in it.

 

[snopro]

Is your mom still alive Mike? If she is there should be no issues as I never had any when my Dad passed in 2019. I was the executor and did everything all myself as the will stated everything transferred to mom. I expect a lot more issues once mom passes so will follow this thread with interest.

 

[Lightningmike]

Thanks for ideas guys. Will look iinto these. Ken, mom is in a home with dementia for about 6 years now so if she out lives dad that could cause even more issues.

 

[LUCKY 7]

My inlaws did something good for theie kids. After my fatherinlaw died my motherinlaw opened up 4 bank accounts. each account had her name on it as well one daughter. After her passing in 2021 my sisterinlaw was the executor and moved the $$$$ around to make all 4 accounts even. After sending each sister a ccopy of the will and the death certificate we then went to the bank and got their mom's name taken off the account. When that was done it was over

 

[catinthehat]

Our experience in BC when mom passed in 2021 was that any accounts in joint names were simple, her name was removed from the account and that was that. Her TFSA was set up with beneficiaries, so that was straight forward as well. We were told that the balance of the estate which was her investment account, luckily there was no property involved, had to go through probate because it was over $60,000 . Different provinces may have different rules?

 

[tripster]

I'm going through this now. I was luck enough to have one account at the bank I'm joint names with my mom and have full use of it for expenses. Her sole account is froze til it clears probate.

 

[pano-dude]

Been dealing with this too, any bank or investment accounts that list a beneficiary are easy money just gets sent after death certificate is verified. Real estate and accounts with no beneficiary have to go through probate.
Lawyers deal with it, same as last year of taxes etc.

 

[cdnredneck_t3]

If everyone with a specific gift and the residual beneficiary get a long it won't be bad. I'm still dealing with an estate because an estranged family member watched too much tv and figured since I was a grand child and he was a child the will was void. It is very easy to contest a will in court, but very hard to win the case. He found a greasy lawyer and signed over his specific gift and that lawyer ran his bill up until that money was gone and then cut him loose as a client. He lost in court and the lawyer has his inheritance. He was fined by the judge for wasting the courts and our time. Then when it was time for him to sign documents he threatened to sue us if we gave his lawyer his money, which we had a signed waiver from him and his lawyer that it went to their law firm. He refused to sign and went into hiding. So we had to file to the court and get a ruling on him not being served. So the Court went over our evidence, signed on his be half and took his specific gift and then sent notice to him and his lawyer the courts had it and it was up to them to apply to get it. All during COVID so it took forever.

The farm land was all done way before any family passing thankfully. My Dad was on Grandma's house title, when he passed she put my Brother and I on it. So it was survivorship and outside the estate. She put us on her bank account. Not just as power of attorney but joint. The bank advised her against this because we were free to use the account as our own. I think it is in their best interest to advise against it for liability and also they have the money until the will is through probate. The account being joint also makes it outside of the estate depending on how a lawyer argues it. The lawyer might argue it is still part of the estate because they want it that way as part of the probate fee to make more money.

Not sure about investments since they were old school and believed cash is king. The vehicles and contents of the house that are not specifically listed in the will are part of the estate.

 

[rknight111]

MacMillian Estate Planners are always on 630 Ched discussing many issues and proper planning, maybe look at there site for some information.

https://www.macmillanestate.com/?utm_source=gmb

 

[X-it]

If your name is on the account and the property will will not be paying probate or have any problems what so ever.

 

[Bnorth]

On a TFSA have your spouse set you up as 'successor holder' instead of beneficiary. If it is parents then have them set you as beneficiary.

 

[Lightningmike]

Thanks guys . I will send this info to mmy dad and see what happens with it

 

[greenthumb]

Just wondering if anyone has come across this before. My Dad was saying tonight that he has been talking with a couple of the banks he deals with and they told him that probate will be guaranteed thing regardless of weather or not our names are on his accounts or not. The land has had our names on it for awhile and seems there is no problem with transition once he passes.


He is pretty scarce with the info he gives me but he is also troubled by what he is hearing. Should he not be able to hand out his estate if it is all laid out prior to his passing without lawyers and banks fighting over it first?

He is pretty concerned about it and I am just trying to help him find out what yo do. Is it certain banks? He has yet to talk to one bank but one for sure said no matter what it would go through probate.

Having dealt with my fathers estate, this is my advice specific to your question:

-Don't go asking bank for advice or direction on an estate. They have no opinion and estate law trumps any policy they have. Remember they are a private company representing their interests.
-Consolidate his finances to as few entities as possible.
-In my instance, the local credit union was fantastic, the RBC was a nightmare - the RCMP had to get involved at one point. The rest of the banks were somewhere in between.
-An estate lawyer is likely his best advice at this point, but they can make significant mistakes as well when handling the probate.

 

[greenthumb]

I missed a few points on my previous post.

Just wondering if anyone has come across this before. My Dad was saying tonight that he has been talking with a couple of the banks he deals with and they told him that probate will be guaranteed thing regardless of weather or not our names are on his accounts or not. The land has had our names on it for awhile and seems there is no problem with transition once he passes.

Probate is basically the court ensuring that the will was executed correctly. Every cent is accounted for - debts, assets, vehicles - every last cent. Whether a probate is required is dependent mainly on the value of the estate. The threshold is pretty low. It was something around $25k when I dealt with it. If there is no will, then then probate definitely will happen as the court then decides who gets what.
There are ways to 'hide his assets' so-to-speak. It isn't as simple a joint account. Unless he is terminally ill and has very high trust in the beneficiaries, this may not be the way to go. He would technically own nothing, so if he has 20 years to go, this could make things very financially difficult in the mean time. Furthermore, things can change within a family. Let's say your brother suddenly dies before your father and his psycho widow acquires his assets. It's a potentially risky move for your father.

He is pretty scarce with the info he gives me but he is also troubled by what he is hearing. Should he not be able to hand out his estate if it is all laid out prior to his passing without lawyers and banks fighting over it first?

First off - lawyers and banks don't get to fight over anything. They have absolutely no say whatsoever.

The short answer is YES, but its not that simple. He must have a Last Will and Testament. All his assets are accounted for, the debts are subtracted and the net is divided according to the will. The will's executor does this. If there is little value to his estate and no one contests it, that's it. Probate is the process to ensure it was done correctly, legally and according to your fathers will. It can be a monumental amount of paperwork that can take years.

He is pretty concerned about it and I am just trying to help him find out what yo do. Is it certain banks? He has yet to talk to one bank but one for sure said no matter what it would go through probate.

See my previous post. Leave the banks opinion out of it entirely.


In a nutshell - the entire process is FUKT!
The taxes, bureaucracy, and overall complexity of dealing with an estate is mind boggling. Not only are you grieving, but having to deal with all that crap too. What is even more staggering is how little people know about the process.

 

[smokinD]

I missed a few points on my previous post.



Probate is basically the court ensuring that the will was executed correctly. Every cent is accounted for - debts, assets, vehicles - every last cent. Whether a probate is required is dependent mainly on the value of the estate. The threshold is pretty low. It was something around $25k when I dealt with it. If there is no will, then then probate definitely will happen as the court then decides who gets what.
There are ways to 'hide his assets' so-to-speak. It isn't as simple a joint account. Unless he is terminally ill and has very high trust in the beneficiaries, this may not be the way to go. He would technically own nothing, so if he has 20 years to go, this could make things very financially difficult in the mean time. Furthermore, things can change within a family. Let's say your brother suddenly dies before your father and his psycho widow acquires his assets. It's a potentially risky move for your father.



First off - lawyers and banks don't get to fight over anything. They have absolutely no say whatsoever.

The short answer is YES, but its not that simple. He must have a Last Will and Testament. All his assets are accounted for, the debts are subtracted and the net is divided according to the will. The will's executor does this. If there is little value to his estate and no one contests it, that's it. Probate is the process to ensure it was done correctly, legally and according to your fathers will. It can be a monumental amount of paperwork that can take years.



See my previous post. Leave the banks opinion out of it entirely.


In a nutshell - the entire process is FUKT!
The taxes, bureaucracy, and overall complexity of dealing with an estate is mind boggling. Not only are you grieving, but having to deal with all that crap too. What is even more staggering is how little people know about the process.

So in a nutshell what are you suggesting? My dad has me/sister as the executers and if neither of us wants the land it gets sold and divided evenly, as for all the rest pretty sure it will be sold off or me/sis will decide who wants what or nothing at all.

 

[greenthumb]

So in a nutshell what are you suggesting? My dad has me/sister as the executers and if neither of us wants the land it gets sold and divided evenly, as for all the rest pretty sure it will be sold off or me/sis will decide who wants what or nothing at all.

Every situation is different, so you need to find what works best for you. Ultimately, it is your fathers estate, and it should be done according to his wishes, even if you don't agree to them. Just make sure he has a legal Will.

I would strongly recommend only having one executor however. My father did this as well, and it was a total pain in the ass. One sibling was living Tokyo at the time, the other works offshore for weeks at a time. Everything had to be signed by all three of us. Bank forms, vehicle sales; pretty much every single document. Understand the executor doesn't really make any decisions, and can't change what the Will states. They are basically like a treasurer - someone who has signing authority and oversees the process. Depending on the situation, it can be quite a lot of work.
You father could appoint a lawyer to do all of this, of course at a cost. We had one involved for some and they sucked too. Numerous oversights and mistakes, slow to respond, and she ripped us off at the end. I didn't have the energy to pursue legal action.

I realize most of my comments are generally negative. The process sucked, the taxes sucked, the banks sucked, the lawyer sucked and above all, losing my father sucked. Maybe my experience isn't typical, but it was an eye opener to say the least, and I'm only touching on a fraction of it.
My mother, who is now in her late 70's and having witnessed the frustration of all this and not wanting her children to repeat it again has gone the route of what the op discussed. She sold her house and now rents. The money is in three separate accounts in the kids names - at the local Credit Union that was very helpful in my fathers estate. We only have to deal with her personal effects when she passes, hopefully no time soon.

 

[smokinD]

Every situation is different, so you need to find what works best for you. Ultimately, it is your fathers estate, and it should be done according to his wishes, even if you don't agree to them. Just make sure he has a legal Will.

I would strongly recommend only having one executor however. My father did this as well, and it was a total pain in the ass. One sibling was living Tokyo at the time, the other works offshore for weeks at a time. Everything had to be signed by all three of us. Bank forms, vehicle sales; pretty much every single document. Understand the executor doesn't really make any decisions, and can't change what the Will states. They are basically like a treasurer - someone who has signing authority and oversees the process. Depending on the situation, it can be quite a lot of work.
You father could appoint a lawyer to do all of this, of course at a cost. We had one involved for some and they sucked too. Numerous oversights and mistakes, slow to respond, and she ripped us off at the end. I didn't have the energy to pursue legal action.

I realize most of my comments are generally negative. The process sucked, the taxes sucked, the banks sucked, the lawyer sucked and above all, losing my father sucked. Maybe my experience isn't typical, but it was an eye opener to say the least, and I'm only touching on a fraction of it.
My mother, who is now in her late 70's and having witnessed the frustration of all this and not wanting her children to repeat it again has gone the route of what the op discussed. She sold her house and now rents. The money is in three separate accounts in the kids names - at the local Credit Union that was very helpful in my fathers estate. We only have to deal with her personal effects when she passes, hopefully no time soon.

Thanks for the info, my sister and myself live fairly close to 1 another so thats not an issue. Dad has his will done already and funeral paid for long ago, so other than that it should be a somewhat smooth process, signatures won't be an issue either. I basically told Dad long ago do what you wish with what you own before you pass i do not need anything, but he insisted that i be an executor along with my sister. His wishes will be fullfilled as per me and my sister, praying i still have many more years before that happens though, that's all i want.