SnowJunkie82
Active VIP Member
Has anybody had anytime on the snow with with it geared up? How does it affect the bottom end and response of the sled?
Over reving on the 850T
- Thread starter Summitizer
- Start date
Dynamo^Joe
Active VIP Member
Aaen tuning handbook 1979
Page 14
A heavier weight will bring the shift speed down, while a lighter weight will bring the shift speed up.
Logic statement: IF there is no adjustable flyweight available to give you the exact shift speed you want THEN some weight will have to be removed from a heavier flyweight.
What Aaen's saying is "weight determines engine speed" [doesnt say gearing determines engine speed, not my words, his words, im just being a parakeet]
IF need less engine speed, THEN add more weight
A rule of thumb is 1 gram = 200 rpms.
IF the weight you add does not respond, THEN add more weight till the engine speed responds.
Stop relying on the dealers and the internets and get off your arse and search out some flyweight grams in the aftermarket to add to your own pivot bolt to control engine speed. Action action action, take some action and then clam up and dont tell anyone what you did because they'll just sh|t on you for doing it.
Oh and when "they" say 'gear up' go buy a 22(one above) and a 20(one below) gear so you can gear down and try it and then know 2x as much as "they" know. And when all the voices in your head, renting space and not paying you for it and all the internets saying "dont gear down", that's exactly when you go find the lowest gear you can, including if you have to make the damn thing yourself with a file and go try it out. Cuz guaranteed' "they" dint try what they said dont try.
Page 14
A heavier weight will bring the shift speed down, while a lighter weight will bring the shift speed up.
Logic statement: IF there is no adjustable flyweight available to give you the exact shift speed you want THEN some weight will have to be removed from a heavier flyweight.
What Aaen's saying is "weight determines engine speed" [doesnt say gearing determines engine speed, not my words, his words, im just being a parakeet]
IF need less engine speed, THEN add more weight
A rule of thumb is 1 gram = 200 rpms.
IF the weight you add does not respond, THEN add more weight till the engine speed responds.
Stop relying on the dealers and the internets and get off your arse and search out some flyweight grams in the aftermarket to add to your own pivot bolt to control engine speed. Action action action, take some action and then clam up and dont tell anyone what you did because they'll just sh|t on you for doing it.
Oh and when "they" say 'gear up' go buy a 22(one above) and a 20(one below) gear so you can gear down and try it and then know 2x as much as "they" know. And when all the voices in your head, renting space and not paying you for it and all the internets saying "dont gear down", that's exactly when you go find the lowest gear you can, including if you have to make the damn thing yourself with a file and go try it out. Cuz guaranteed' "they" dint try what they said dont try.
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snopro
Active VIP Member
Did you install Joeys kit yet Aaron?
Pedaling pete
Active VIP Member
Yeah gear it it down and add a bunch of weight if you want a real dog...
Dynamo^Joe
Active VIP Member
Please finish your tuning statement. Dont give 1/2 of the information and expect tuners to know what you know.
Would it be fair to say then...
Brownstar tuning statement
gear it down and add a bunch of weight if you want a real dog...
gear it up and remove a bunch of weight if you dont want a real dog...
oler1234
Active VIP Member
^^^^ this guy might know what he’s talking about.
yes gear it up and add a bunch of clutch heat.... belts are cheap you know...
yes gear it up and add a bunch of clutch heat.... belts are cheap you know...
cattechsummitrider
Active VIP Member
Gota give credit to Joey Installed kit engagement was lower great backshifts, had to add a bit more weight, but works great
Pedaling pete
Active VIP Member
Worked on my last 10 turbo sleds. Have you ever tried? Drink another bush
snopro
Active VIP Member
You're giving Joey advice on clutching? Your gonna need to trade in that knife for a big gun if you want to make it more fair. Lmao!
turboetech
Active VIP Member
Totally depends on your style of riding..... drag racing or hill climbing or highmarking or tree and creek riding or trails or drive to the cabin and talk about how great a rider you are or many variables in between...I geared mine up one tooth on the driver the key is letting the chain break in and stretch a bit to fit the larger gear in without replacing with a new longer chain and the second is finding a gear with this bs Covid shortage on everything This works great for my style of mountain riding as the 6 km hour extra track speed sends me to the top faster and higher than my buddies on the same stock sleds we did the before and after and yes it’s quit noticeable and it works great in the trees as well we ride prob 60/40 trees/alpine....I like it and that’s all I can speek for...and I’m not trying to sell anyone anything it’s actually a cheap fix anyone can do with little effort.... Happy Trails
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Pedaling pete
Active VIP Member
No Joey's cool. Talking to older. ride hard, drink harder 4 life bro
I'm not trying to sell you a kit though...
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turboetech
Active VIP Member
I just changed my original belt with 1200kms on it
SnowJunkie82
Active VIP Member
I have. It works awesome and as advertised. Joey’s customer service is top notch and would definitely recommend his kits to anyone riding a turbo or NA 850. You gain smoother engagement, stronger back shifting and give up nothing in terms of throttle response or track speed. I was asking about gearing up because the T850 may have enough motor to support more track speed without compromising to much else. Simply raised it for discussion.
maxwell
Active VIP Member
Should get 2000k out of a properly
Clutched T850. That’s what they get stock
Beating the pizz out of them
turboetech
Active VIP Member
I said I changed it.... I didn’t blow it up...lol... 240$$ and got a good spare
oler1234
Active VIP Member
still on my original at 1500km.
so you went from a 20 top gear to a 21 top gear? Looks like a pain to change the gear vs mess with clutching.
turboetech
Active VIP Member
22 tooth gear remove can and pop cover off... clutches well you will need clutch tools to install springs and helix.... remove jackshaft and primary clutch.... way simpler to add bolt weight if it’s just over reving you are trying to fix...if want to pass your buddy or high mark his every climb up the top gear a tooth... load that turbo up...cheers just my two cents I’m sure Joeys clutching is spot on but prob not for everyone’s style of riding... top 1 % ers
Dynamo^Joe
Active VIP Member
Gents, please don't get upset with me. Im not trying to create a pissin contest.
From my testing and the feedback i get from test guys, there's 2 distinct track speeds.
Think in slow motion...
From a start, you pin throttle and the track accelerates and I see...
1] spike track speed.
then a few moments go on and I see...
2] equilibrium track speed.
The spike track speed is; you pin throttle and there is a momentary high track speed number.
Time goes on (thinking in slow motion) vehicle speed is increasing and eventually the vehicle-speed-itself stops increasing(accelerating) and
...you see equilibrium track speed.
There is a gap between spike track speed and equilibrium track speed.
Equilibrium, meaning the condition of where competing influences are balanced.
A guy will say out loud to his buddies; "holds 45mph track speed". Ok that means in his pull he's getting 45mph track speed and it holds there. The condition of full throttle is matching the load the sled is seeing and result is 45mph track speed. That's his equilibrium track speed.
But, go back in time, he might have seen 48mph track speed for a moment as the sled is still accelrating before the sled hit equilibrium track speed.
That 48mph is the spike track speed.
That 45mph is the equilibrium track speed.
My experiences gearing faster [on my kits] will show a bigger gap between the spike(s) and equilibrium(e).
Like say a 21 will give 48(s) and 45(e)
A 22 will give 50(s) and 44(e)
A 19 will give 48(s) and 47(e)
Ok throw a wrench into the works. When you hit equilibrium track speed (47mph) "LET OFF" the throttle and pin it again.
Question; did the track speed recover to 47mph, yes or no?
What we found is with a taller gear, when you let off (severely changing load) and try to recover, the track speed recovery is slower. A faster gear lifts the front end slower when in motion, off/on throttle. A lower gear, the front end lift is more abrupt, skis lift quicker. Can come into something hot/fast like a deadfall tree and time full throttle closer to it to get over. With a taller gear the front end lifts slower after you let off throttle.
I want my kits to have equilibrium track speed as close to the spike track speed. When the driver lets off throttle and back on, bang, track speed gets right back there now. And the rider can feather throttle and listen to the whirl of the track follow his thumb. Objective is smallest lag. Let off throttle, track whirl lowers, press throttle, track whirl follows your thumb. I find a taller gear in tree riding there is a lag "spongy feel" from thumb to track.
Tested 22, 21, 19-53 and 25&24-63 and TKI is making one of my test guys a 23 for 23-63 now to be as close to 19-53 as we can.
Note:"gearing taller" guys, are running their own helix and secondary spring.
We're making our own helixes over here. Draw one up, send it off to Dalton and its sittin on my table in a few days ready to go test.
--------------------------------------------
Heh, i have an idea what "top 1%ers" identifier is. I suspect its a label made. so its users, can put everyone else in a box, label "them" 99%'ers" and dispose of them by a political mechanism "im cultured, you're heathen". Basically kicking the box off the cliff.
Hmm, I see an idea to make a "T-shirt" "im a 99%er" to go with my "infidel flatlander" t-shirt i made a few years ago.
From my testing and the feedback i get from test guys, there's 2 distinct track speeds.
Think in slow motion...
From a start, you pin throttle and the track accelerates and I see...
1] spike track speed.
then a few moments go on and I see...
2] equilibrium track speed.
The spike track speed is; you pin throttle and there is a momentary high track speed number.
Time goes on (thinking in slow motion) vehicle speed is increasing and eventually the vehicle-speed-itself stops increasing(accelerating) and
...you see equilibrium track speed.
There is a gap between spike track speed and equilibrium track speed.
Equilibrium, meaning the condition of where competing influences are balanced.
A guy will say out loud to his buddies; "holds 45mph track speed". Ok that means in his pull he's getting 45mph track speed and it holds there. The condition of full throttle is matching the load the sled is seeing and result is 45mph track speed. That's his equilibrium track speed.
But, go back in time, he might have seen 48mph track speed for a moment as the sled is still accelrating before the sled hit equilibrium track speed.
That 48mph is the spike track speed.
That 45mph is the equilibrium track speed.
My experiences gearing faster [on my kits] will show a bigger gap between the spike(s) and equilibrium(e).
Like say a 21 will give 48(s) and 45(e)
A 22 will give 50(s) and 44(e)
A 19 will give 48(s) and 47(e)
Ok throw a wrench into the works. When you hit equilibrium track speed (47mph) "LET OFF" the throttle and pin it again.
Question; did the track speed recover to 47mph, yes or no?
What we found is with a taller gear, when you let off (severely changing load) and try to recover, the track speed recovery is slower. A faster gear lifts the front end slower when in motion, off/on throttle. A lower gear, the front end lift is more abrupt, skis lift quicker. Can come into something hot/fast like a deadfall tree and time full throttle closer to it to get over. With a taller gear the front end lifts slower after you let off throttle.
I want my kits to have equilibrium track speed as close to the spike track speed. When the driver lets off throttle and back on, bang, track speed gets right back there now. And the rider can feather throttle and listen to the whirl of the track follow his thumb. Objective is smallest lag. Let off throttle, track whirl lowers, press throttle, track whirl follows your thumb. I find a taller gear in tree riding there is a lag "spongy feel" from thumb to track.
Tested 22, 21, 19-53 and 25&24-63 and TKI is making one of my test guys a 23 for 23-63 now to be as close to 19-53 as we can.
Note:"gearing taller" guys, are running their own helix and secondary spring.
We're making our own helixes over here. Draw one up, send it off to Dalton and its sittin on my table in a few days ready to go test.
--------------------------------------------
Heh, i have an idea what "top 1%ers" identifier is. I suspect its a label made. so its users, can put everyone else in a box, label "them" 99%'ers" and dispose of them by a political mechanism "im cultured, you're heathen". Basically kicking the box off the cliff.
Hmm, I see an idea to make a "T-shirt" "im a 99%er" to go with my "infidel flatlander" t-shirt i made a few years ago.
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skegpro
Active VIP Member
So the factory overrev is on the spike I am guessing?
turboetech
Active VIP Member
All do respect but if what you are saying is true by gearing up my sled it slowed the e track speed down and there for a stock 850 turbo has a faster track speed.... which is absolutely bs....simple test I did and with the 22 tooth gear my sled has a higher e track speed than stock 850t but that’s the facts not a bunch of written quotes from books or third party testing this is actual 5000-7000 ft mountain riding I did myself and anyone can cheaply accomplish
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