teeroy
Active VIP Member
Robin Quivers said it best this morning; "I encourage every Osama follower to visit him at his gravesite..." at the bottom of the ocean
Osama is dead
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RMK Junky
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And so it begins...
WASHINGTON - Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique that surrounded the terrorist chieftain in life is persisting in death.
Was it really him? How do we know? Where are the pictures?
Already, those questions are spreading in Pakistan and surely beyond. In the absence of photos and with his body given up to the sea, many people do not want to believe that bin Laden — the Great Emir to some, the fabled escape artist of the Tora Bora mountains to foe and friend alike — is really dead.
U.S. officials are balancing that skepticism with the sensitivities that might be inflamed by showing images they say they have of the dead al-Qaida leader and video of his burial at sea. Still, it appeared likely that photographic evidence would be produced.
"We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden," John Brennan, President Barack Obama's counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. He said the U.S. will "share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened."
In July 2003, the U.S. took heat but also quieted most conspiracy theorists by releasing graphic photos of the corpses of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's two powerful sons to prove American forces had killed them.
So far, the U.S. has cited evidence that satisfied the Navy SEAL force, and at least most of the world, that they had the right man in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden's name in the melee.
Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden's identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 per cent certainty. U.S. officials also said bin Laden was identified through photo comparisons and other methods.
Tellingly, an al-Qaida spokesman, in vowing vengeance against America, called him a martyr, offering no challenge to the U.S. account of his death.
Even so, it is almost inevitable that the bin Laden mythology will not end with the bullet in his head. If it suits extremist ends to spin a fantastical tale of survival or trickery to gullible ears, expect to hear it.
In the immediate aftermath, people in Abbottabad expressed widespread disbelief that bin Laden had died — or ever lived — among them.
"I'm not ready to buy bin Laden was here," said Haris Rasheed, 22, who works in a fast food restaurant. "How come no one knew he was here and why did they bury him so quickly? This is all fake — a drama, and a crude one."
Kamal Khan, 25, who is unemployed, said the official story "looks fishy to me."
The burial from an aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea was videotaped aboard the ship, according to a senior defence official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a decision on whether to release the video was not final. The official said it was highly likely that the video, along with photographs of bin Laden's body, would be made public in coming days.
The swiftness of the burial may have raised suspicions but was in accord with Islamic traditions. Islamic scholars, however, challenged U.S. assertions that a burial at sea was an appropriate fate for a Muslim who had died on land.
The act denied al-Qaida any sort of burial shrine for their slain leader. Once again, bin Laden had vanished, but this time at the hands of the United States and in a way that ensures he is gone forever.
If that satisfies U.S. goals and its sense of justice, Brad Sagarin, a psychologist at Northern Illinois University who studies persuasion, said the rapid disposition of the body "would certainly be a rich sort of kernel for somebody to grasp onto if they were motivated to disbelieve this."
Also expected to come out is a tape made by bin Laden, before U.S. forces bore down on him, that may provide fodder to those who insist he is alive.
Pakistan, for one, is a land of conspiracy theorists, and far-fetched rumours abound on the streets and in blogs throughout the Arab world. But that's not just a characteristic of the Islamic pipeline. Many ordinary Americans — and one billionaire — persistently questioned whether Obama was born in the U.S. despite lacking any evidence that he wasn't.
Sagarin said most people will probably be convinced bin Laden is dead because they cannot imagine the government maintaining such an extraordinary lie to the contrary in this day and age.
Yet, he said, "as with the birther conspiracy, there's going to be a set of people who are never going to be convinced. People filter the information they receive through their current attitudes, their current perspectives."
To be sure, even photos and video, subject to digital manipulation, may not provide the final word to everyone. But Seth Jones, a RAND Corp. political scientist who advised the commander of U.S. special operations forces in Afghanistan, said the administration should do all it can to minimize doubts.
"There are always conspiracy theories," he said. "There are individuals who believe that bin Laden wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks."
Another little read...
WASHINGTON - Knowing there would be disbelievers, the U.S. says it used convincing means to confirm Osama bin Laden's identity during and after the firefight that killed him. But the mystique that surrounded the terrorist chieftain in life is persisting in death.
Was it really him? How do we know? Where are the pictures?
Already, those questions are spreading in Pakistan and surely beyond. In the absence of photos and with his body given up to the sea, many people do not want to believe that bin Laden — the Great Emir to some, the fabled escape artist of the Tora Bora mountains to foe and friend alike — is really dead.
U.S. officials are balancing that skepticism with the sensitivities that might be inflamed by showing images they say they have of the dead al-Qaida leader and video of his burial at sea. Still, it appeared likely that photographic evidence would be produced.
"We are going to do everything we can to make sure that nobody has any basis to try to deny that we got Osama bin Laden," John Brennan, President Barack Obama's counterterrorism adviser, said Monday. He said the U.S. will "share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened."
In July 2003, the U.S. took heat but also quieted most conspiracy theorists by releasing graphic photos of the corpses of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's two powerful sons to prove American forces had killed them.
So far, the U.S. has cited evidence that satisfied the Navy SEAL force, and at least most of the world, that they had the right man in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden's name in the melee.
Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden's identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 per cent certainty. U.S. officials also said bin Laden was identified through photo comparisons and other methods.
Tellingly, an al-Qaida spokesman, in vowing vengeance against America, called him a martyr, offering no challenge to the U.S. account of his death.
Even so, it is almost inevitable that the bin Laden mythology will not end with the bullet in his head. If it suits extremist ends to spin a fantastical tale of survival or trickery to gullible ears, expect to hear it.
In the immediate aftermath, people in Abbottabad expressed widespread disbelief that bin Laden had died — or ever lived — among them.
"I'm not ready to buy bin Laden was here," said Haris Rasheed, 22, who works in a fast food restaurant. "How come no one knew he was here and why did they bury him so quickly? This is all fake — a drama, and a crude one."
Kamal Khan, 25, who is unemployed, said the official story "looks fishy to me."
The burial from an aircraft carrier in the North Arabian Sea was videotaped aboard the ship, according to a senior defence official who spoke on condition of anonymity because a decision on whether to release the video was not final. The official said it was highly likely that the video, along with photographs of bin Laden's body, would be made public in coming days.
The swiftness of the burial may have raised suspicions but was in accord with Islamic traditions. Islamic scholars, however, challenged U.S. assertions that a burial at sea was an appropriate fate for a Muslim who had died on land.
The act denied al-Qaida any sort of burial shrine for their slain leader. Once again, bin Laden had vanished, but this time at the hands of the United States and in a way that ensures he is gone forever.
If that satisfies U.S. goals and its sense of justice, Brad Sagarin, a psychologist at Northern Illinois University who studies persuasion, said the rapid disposition of the body "would certainly be a rich sort of kernel for somebody to grasp onto if they were motivated to disbelieve this."
Also expected to come out is a tape made by bin Laden, before U.S. forces bore down on him, that may provide fodder to those who insist he is alive.
Pakistan, for one, is a land of conspiracy theorists, and far-fetched rumours abound on the streets and in blogs throughout the Arab world. But that's not just a characteristic of the Islamic pipeline. Many ordinary Americans — and one billionaire — persistently questioned whether Obama was born in the U.S. despite lacking any evidence that he wasn't.
Sagarin said most people will probably be convinced bin Laden is dead because they cannot imagine the government maintaining such an extraordinary lie to the contrary in this day and age.
Yet, he said, "as with the birther conspiracy, there's going to be a set of people who are never going to be convinced. People filter the information they receive through their current attitudes, their current perspectives."
To be sure, even photos and video, subject to digital manipulation, may not provide the final word to everyone. But Seth Jones, a RAND Corp. political scientist who advised the commander of U.S. special operations forces in Afghanistan, said the administration should do all it can to minimize doubts.
"There are always conspiracy theories," he said. "There are individuals who believe that bin Laden wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks."
Another little read...
Last edited:
snopro
Active VIP Member
On the news I see many US Americans rejoicing over this death. It makes me think that they are no better for their actions. We should be saddened that it had to come to this and worried about the retaliation. As soon as you celibrate you only make the terrorists more angry and hateful. If you don't believe me, think back to when you've seen a video clip of a middle East gang yelling and chanting against the US while shooting their guns overhead. Kinda how these US Americans look now while doing their victory dance.
Google Al Jazeera and see what goes on when a coalition soldier is killed. I think a little bit of celebrating is in order....
snopro
Active VIP Member
I know you said this was your last post so I will answer and call it truceyes we will not agree on this issue and yes he was a mad man no doubt about it. But there are so many of them on this planet like in N.Koren, Libya, African countries to name a few. Why go just after him? I think oil and strategic location are a key words. As for being in the military, hats off to you my friend and no I dont understand what it is like. But that doesn't change the fact that your ex-leader lied to send the troops in regardless of what a soldier thinks.
Why go after him? Maybe because he admitted to masterminding the deaths of 3000 civilians on American soil. Why are we over there? Because war is a game that should be played at the visitors venue, not the home teams.
eclipse1966
Active VIP Member
sorry but we were talking about Saddam Hussein not bin laden. Pls read the previous threads :d
rzrgade
Active VIP Member
There`s a difference , they both murdered thousands of inocent people.....
Mike270412
Golden Boy
Maxwell was there,he killed bin Laden.
eclipse1966
Active VIP Member
guys read the previous posts. I said that they should also charge Bush for his atrocities for sending troops into Iraq killing thousands of innocent lives and soldiers based on lies. Of course Sadam and Bin Laden are better off dead but also Bush is no innocent boy here.
snopro
Active VIP Member
snopro
Active VIP Member
guys read the previous posts. I said that they should also charge Bush for his atrocities for sending troops into Iraq killing thousands of innocent lives and soldiers based on lies. Of course Sadam and Bin Laden are better off dead but also Bush is no innocent boy here.
Saddam was a weapon of mass destruction. :d
Flatlander_01
Active VIP Member
I heard he was on a snow covered mountain top and the seal team rode xp's to reach him due to bad weather.
Teth-Air
Active VIP Member
Yes, you should be just like them. not
ZRrrr
Active VIP Member
Members of the US Fed Reserve recently held a meeting to discuss management of the debt. In a leaked report they are considering doing something considered illegal in the invetment world, ie. manipulaing markets and making money by purchasing insurance on the debt created (simplification). This could very well be the beginning of the distraction needed to yet again undergo a massive transfer of wealth.
Keep em' dumb, distracted and living in fear!
Keep em' dumb, distracted and living in fear!
sledderdoc
Super Senior Member
Nasty guy true ..... but the country was stable. Just cause he didn't run to american standards he is a weapon of mass destruction lol. They ever consider that with this many muslim factions you almost need a ruthless dictator to keep order. Let them kill each other who cares!! Would have been easier to keep him out of Kuwait and call it a day. ....... hindsight is great.
eclipse1966
Active VIP Member
Nasty guy true ..... but the country was stable. Just cause he didn't run to american standards he is a weapon of mass destruction lol. They ever consider that with this many muslim factions you almost need a ruthless dictator to keep order. Let them kill each other who cares!! Would have been easier to keep him out of Kuwait and call it a day. ....... hindsight is great.
cant forget this weapon of mass destruction was a "friend" to the American's before the war. Bottom line the whole region has been fighting amongst themselves way before the West was even on the map so going in there with some bigger guns is not going to change anything imo.
whitegold
Active VIP Member
... and these people are a breed all on their own. They don't seem to value life.... how can you possible win a battle with people that don't care if they die????
Gotta mention... friends before the original gulf war in 91
sledderdoc
Super Senior Member
glengine
Active VIP Member
My question is simple. They dumped th body in the ocean but say they have dna tests to prove it was him, where did they get the original dna info to compare it to? Also with abama saying that they are going to to stop subsidizing the american economy at the end of june and a US election coming up i sure seems a timely time to finally get bin laden. I quess i am just a little sceptical is all and think it might be alot more political reteric than anything and if they actually got him. The war that they started is one that'll never be won. Also they dont think that they should be concerned about a possible retaliation for the bin ladens death if he is dead?
polarice
Active VIP Member
and that is the reason why they are discussing whether they are going to release the pics or not
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