Ok, so you like your guns, but why do we have to put up with them.

[RXN]

The Best Gun Fail Accidents - 2011 - YouTube

 

[arff]

How about a bunch of redneck Louisiana boys and tell them it really was the afghans that killed Dale Earnhardt?

Well dumped my coffee over...................

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

I am not going to read this whole thread. Just checking the site to see what is going on at home. But I am guessing that the people that think Canada is so safe has not had to call the police multiple times throughout the year for someone trying to break down the back door in the idle of the night, or someone trying to burn down the garage or camper. vehicle being broken into etc. Or the one night I was attacked in my front yard some pos drunk indian. Or the drunk indian that I didn't confront trying to get in the garage at 2 in the morning because I was sick. After yelling at him he booted the garage door and slowly left. When the cops finally came about 30 mins later we went out and looked at the door. The foot print was near the top of the 7 foot door. This was a big fawker so chances of me winning a hand to hand fight would have been slim. Police rarely catch these guys. I know I lived in that house for 12 years. Police only show up within ten minutes of calling about 10% of the time. So yes if I need to protect myself I can. I would rather not end up one of those on the news as either dead or in the hospital for the rest of my life. That is great if you live in a house where there is no crime. I do too now. It is a good feeling. But there are many many places where crime happens a lot. Stop saying the Canada is so fricken safe because it really isn't.

Maybe you should have read the whole thread, because we aren't saying Canada is so safe that we should ban all guns. In fact, not a single person has said that.
Is it fair to say you could have protected yourself with a 20-gauge shotgun, or even a .22 rifle? I don't think you would have needed an AK47, AR15, MP5, or Uzi?

 

[byronkentgraham]

You do know that there are already been a 'direct violation of the constitution' passed through congress, right? In 1994, the US congress banned the sale of assault rifles. That ban expired in 2004.

Yes by another group of Democrats. After the ban of assault rifles expired gun deaths went way up right?

 

[Cdnfireman]

The constitution was written 11 years after the U.S. war of independence. The 2nd amendment was written to protect the citizenry from an oppressive government, the brits were long out of the picture. True, weaponry has changed, but for everyone, not just the individual gun owner.
I understand that some people just want the military type weapons gone. They feel that there is no "need" for them. In the wrong hands they can create massive carnage. Unfortunately, this is true. But it's just as unacceptable if some whacko kills only 10 people with a slower firing weapon.
It's no accident that the crazies with guns in the states head for schools when they finally snap. Schools are known "gun free"areas. These deranged individuals know enough not to go where there is the potential they will be confronted by an armed citizen. Newtown, columbine,virginia tech, and the theatre in aurora colorado demonstrate this. One has to wonder if things would be different if somehow there was a means of defending a school in a timely fashion. I can't imagine a teacher having to carry a gun, in fact, guns around children unless in a training situation is not a good idea. I don't know what the answer is either, but something has to be done to protect schools, because unfortunately, this won't be the last time this happens.


As for gun control,History has shown us that the wrong people in power will gradually dictate that no one has the "need " to own any firearm. Under U.S. law, Obama can't "ban" any privately owned property. He can pass executive orders preventing future sales, but neither he nor any other arm of the government can "ban" the ownership of private property. Existing property is grandfathered. Individual states can enact their own gun control ordinances, provided it doesn't infringe on the 2nd amendment. There's literally millions of guns in the states, so while it might feel good to try to "ban" some, there's more than enough to go around for the next 100 years or so.
Canada strikes a reasonable balance for gun control. Background checks, safe handling course requirements and safe storage laws that apply here make it much safer for all. But one has to note that the gangs in toronto, vancouver, calgary, edmonton, winnipeg regularly seem to shoot it out with each other. They don't care about any laws, let alone gun control. Passing more laws won't slow them down, nor anyone else intent on using a gun in a crime.

 

[sumx54]

they can't take my guns away or there would be no more christmas tree Hunting for me

 

[kbrunlees]

they can't take my guns away or there would be no more christmas tree Hunting for me

Is that tree wearing Kevlar?

 

[Summiteer]

I posted the cartoon slowly so you would understand Larry.
The cartoon wasn't all guns, merely the small amount of deaths actually caused by the "assault rifle" style vs a blunt object. Don't like the numbers, call the FBI, they generated them.
Like it or not, you can't compare gun violence without looking at the socio-economic picture as well. The Swiss have one of the higher rates of evil assault rifle ownership but their gun crime rate is comparatively low. If it was only due to machine guns being in every closet, wouldn't the problem show up for the Swiss as well?

Of course 100% of those assault rifle owners have been trained and have had background checks done on them.

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

It's no accident that the crazies with guns in the states head for schools when they finally snap. Schools are known "gun free"areas. These deranged individuals know enough not to go where there is the potential they will be confronted by an armed citizen. Newtown, columbine,virginia tech, and the theatre in aurora colorado demonstrate this. One has to wonder if things would be different if somehow there was a means of defending a school in a timely fashion. I can't imagine a teacher having to carry a gun, in fact, guns around children unless in a training situation is not a good idea. I don't know what the answer is either, but something has to be done to protect schools, because unfortunately, this won't be the last time this happens.

I wonder more if it's because they head for 'gun free' zones, or they head to do damage to a place that they have had some very bad memories? These people are mentally ill, there is no doubt about that, and perhaps it's more about health care than anything. The problem with mental health, is that something needs to be acted on, and it's hard to do. The family doesn't know what to do, because generally they don't know what the person is going through. the person dealing with it may not realize they have a problem, or are embarrassed to come forward about it. 2011 wasn't the best year for me, and I'm pretty sure I went through a bought of depression. I didn't seek any help about it, as it was new to me. I didn't know what was wrong, I just dealt with it myself, embarrassed to go to anyone about it. I found new hobbies (sledding) and focused on that, and it completely changed around.

As far as the US goes, maybe I'm naive enough to believe that the system they have in place will prevent them from following those countries of history into oppression. There is a reason so many people come from oppressed countries to live in Canada and US.

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

Of course 100% of those assault rifle owners have been trained and have had background checks done on them.

Actually I bet they are, because the Swiss has mandatory military service for all able body males who are conscripted. The army then issues them a weapon, which is expected to be kept at home.

 

[fj40]

As a society, we should be growing up, not acting like children. I am getting a little tired of the "the government is just like Hitler argument". It is alarmist and not needed. What I can't figure out is why Canadians care about what Obama is trying to do down south. We have gun control here such as no automatic weapons, no clips larger than 10 rounds and no carrying handguns. The argument that the bad guys have them is mute. Gun crime in Canada is very rare, same as the UK but in the US is beyond belief. I am sorry that you can't feel safe without a side arm strapped to your ass. I have 4 grandsons that I want to see have a long and safe life. An armed society is not the way to go as more guns are just asking for more accidents. There is a time and place for guns and cities are not it. I am not a free love hippee that feels all gun should be banned, but why do we need armour piercing rounds? when is the last time you saw a deer wearing kevlar? The NRAs arguments are trite and full of outright lies and misdirections. If you can't kill your moose with less than 10 shots, perhaps you really shouldn't have a gun in the first place. We as Canadians are not prone to violence, but we will protect others who would have their freedom taken away by others.
I love the argument that cars cause more grief than guns do, that maybe true but now we are comparing apples to oranges. I am not suggesting that you not have guns, but if by controlling when and where you are to use them and minimizing the effects of said ammo, we can strive to make our country safer. Yes I am standing on a soap box, but letting the gun advocates have all the spotlight is saying that you fully agree with their stand. Please let the discussion begin. If all you want to do is slag my position then don't bother, I want intelligent thought, not alarmist rants.

So lets take a few of your arguments about guns.

1 Guns are only for hunting or target shooting.
No. People have them because they enjoy them. Yes, some people get a rush by squeezing off 30-50 rounds in a few seconds (which I have never done).
Is this wrong? Yes, to some people.
But, to some people blasting up a mountain with a co2 spurring, polluting, environment wrecking, greenhouse and global warming causing sled is wrong.

2 Not in the city.
Are guns to be used in the city? No. Are sleds to used in the city? No,
but I see tracks inside the city.

3 Gun controls will stop massacres.
That worked in Norway. Norway already has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, but they were apparently easily circumvented by the killer.

4 More guns = more accidents.
Should I use the sled comparison again?
More sleds, more accidents – let’s get rid of the sleds.

5 No clip larger than 10 rounds.
No cars over 150 hp. No motor bikes in Canada - “can’t ride year round”.
No sleds or quads unless used for hunting.

Society has deemed guns unacceptable. When some nut case goes
on a rampage then lets ban the guns. Yes, with a 10 clip semi-auto less children may
have died, but drive through a schoolyard at recess with a jacked up 4X4 and see
what kind of carnage would happen.

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

So lets take a few of your arguments about guns.

1 Guns are only for hunting or target shooting.
No. People have them because they enjoy them. Yes, some people get a rush by squeezing off 30-50 rounds in a few seconds (which I have never done).
Is this wrong? Yes, to some people.
But, to some people blasting up a mountain with a co2 spurring, polluting, environment wrecking, greenhouse and global warming causing sled is wrong.

2 Not in the city.
Are guns to be used in the city? No. Are sleds to used in the city? No,
but I see tracks inside the city.

3 Gun controls will stop massacres.
That worked in Norway. Norway already has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, but they were apparently easily circumvented by the killer.

4 More guns = more accidents.
Should I use the sled comparison again?
More sleds, more accidents – let’s get rid of the sleds.

5 No clip larger than 10 rounds.
No cars over 150 hp. No motor bikes in Canada - “can’t ride year round”.
No sleds or quads unless used for hunting.

Society has deemed guns unacceptable. When some nut case goes
on a rampage then lets ban the guns. Yes, with a 10 clip semi-auto less children may
have died, but drive through a schoolyard at recess with a jacked up 4X4 and see
what kind of carnage would happen.

Rebuttal
1) I don't think high powered weapons have a place in the general public's hands, however, gun ranges can have access to them, and people can go and pay to get that rush at the range.
2) Most cities don't allow sleds in town, but some cities/towns do. Yellowknife for example.
3) I don't think anyone is expecting these massacres to completely stop happening with some form of gun control, but it will minimize them from happening.
4) I already wrote a lengthy response to this. However; here it goes again. Sledding is a dangerous activity, as is something like skiing. Participants are knowingly putting themselves at risk, and the majority of us sledders know these risks and know what to do to minimize these risks. Accidents will always happen, but I'm not putting innocent lives in danger when I go out sledding. I'm putting myself in danger and I'm aware of that.
5) I honestly have no idea how cars over 150hp and motor bikes relate to clips larger than 10 rounds. Again, motorcyclists are knowingly putting themselves at risk.

Drive through a school yard at recess with a jacked up 4x4 and you will end up getting 20 years for vehicular manslaughter.

 

[kbrunlees]

I see apple to oranges in your arguments FJ40, A VW beetle with a 1200 cc engine could kill someone. I have met a few gun Enthusiasts,who are absolutely obsessed with their guns, and to be honest, I really don't trust them. Then there are others who are very mindful of the people around them. Kind of like Sledding, quadding sportcars driving etc. There are the responsible ones and then there the parking lot cowboys, who could give a rats ass what you think until they go through the side of your trailer, sled, truck people then they are contrite. Somehow we are going off topic. You are using redirection and subterfuge to win your argument and it is wrong. We are talking about what is suitable for gun control to reduce the potential of accidents and tragedy. Again we could bubblewrap society and make everyone safe-----------for about 20 minutes til people go stark raving bonkers. We all have issues that are near and dear to us that when threatened we say and do things to protect what we think is our divine right. However as a society (majority rules) we have the right to try and make things safer for our future. The wild west is in the past, Time to move forward.

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

I see apple to oranges in your arguments FJ40, A VW beetle with a 1200 cc engine could kill someone. I have met a few gun Enthusiasts,who are absolutely obsessed with their guns, and to be honest, I really don't trust them. Then there are others who are very mindful of the people around them. Kind of like Sledding, quadding sportcars driving etc. There are the responsible ones and then there the parking lot cowboys, who could give a rats ass what you think until they go through the side of your trailer, sled, truck people then they are contrite. Somehow we are going off topic. You are using redirection and subterfuge to win your argument and it is wrong. We are talking about what is suitable for gun control to reduce the potential of accidents and tragedy. Again we could bubblewrap society and make everyone safe-----------for about 20 minutes til people go stark raving bonkers. We all have issues that are near and dear to us that when threatened we say and do things to protect what we think is our divine right. However as a society (majority rules) we have the right to try and make things safer for our future. The wild west is in the past, Time to move forward.

I will volunteer to be wrapped in bubble wrap. Man, that and 12 pack and I would have the best afternoon ever.
Just an effort to lighten up the mood.

 

[fj40]

Cars don't need more than 150hp but some have over 500 hp and street racing only kill the racers.
If the nut case can't get a gun he could of use the the jackup 4X4 " 11-year-old girl died of her injuries when a mini van slammed into a St. Paul school last week."
My point we don't need any of these things but like them for recreation.
I did not even talk about drinking. Drunk drivers kill more than guns do so lets ban drinking.
Do you think high powered car, bikes, sleds "have a place in the general public's hands"
Innocent people die from these.

 

[medler]

Heres my two cents....

Do i think Joe Blow needs selectible fire weapons? NO..would i buy one if i could? YES i sure would...Why? because i can ,AND FOR FUN!!

Do i think people neeed a 40 round mag? No...i dont...If they were legal for my rifles i would have them..they arent legal for my rifles so i dont have any..

All this talk about trying to convince someone to understand why i like to shoot my weapons is tuff to explain..i find it very relaxing and calms me down..i like the challenge and for the sport of it..I dont hunt .Have never shot a deer or moose in my life..I have guns and rifles that havent seen fired in years..

This discussion is really out of our control..Canada is strict enough and i dont think the USA is gonna like what theyre gonna get..ammo is scarce there and so are mags of high capacity..everyone is buying everything ..its crazy...Ammo is said to be going for $1.00 per round( so i have heard...556 cal)..
I enjoy my rifles and i allways will...but i dont jam my beliefs down others throats..My brother in law hates guns ,,but he doesnt rag on me for having them either,,,,Be safe and responsible is my motto

 

[Wilk INStheWEST]

Heres my two cents....

Do i think Joe Blow needs selectible fire weapons? NO..would i buy one if i could? YES i sure would...Why? because i can ,AND FOR FUN!!

Do i think people neeed a 40 round mag? No...i dont...If they were legal for my rifles i would have them..they arent legal for my rifles so i dont have any..

All this talk about trying to convince someone to understand why i like to shoot my weapons is tuff to explain..i find it very relaxing and calms me down..i like the challenge and for the sport of it..I dont hunt .Have never shot a deer or moose in my life..I have guns and rifles that havent seen fired in years..

This discussion is really out of our control..Canada is strict enough and i dont think the USA is gonna like what theyre gonna get..ammo is scarce there and so are mags of high capacity..everyone is buying everything ..its crazy...Ammo is said to be going for $1.00 per round( so i have heard...556 cal)..
I enjoy my rifles and i allways will...but i dont jam my beliefs down others throats..My brother in law hates guns ,,but he doesnt rag on me for having them either,,,,Be safe and responsible is my motto

I don't own any guns, but I too enjoy firing them. A friend and I usually spend our Sundays in the fall, shooting skeet on his ranch for a few hours. In that time we may both go through 150-200 rounds. I enjoy it, as it's a good release and great practice for hunting (which I don't do regularly, but he does). Before anyone calls me a hypocrite, we are firing 20 and 12 guage over/under or side by side shotguns. I understand the recreation side of it, it is a good release, just not when it's being fired into a school. That is why I suggested that these type of weapons be available to fire at a range. For the amount of times that some of those guns are fired for recreation purposes, it would be way cheaper to walk into a range and 'rent' it for an hour.
I think that Canada has good gun control laws. They aren't too strict, but they limit the most dangerous weapons. With what is happening in the US right now, it is crazy. Because the government can't ban weapons that have already been purchased everyone is scrambling to get them now.

 

[Riverjet]

Who has access to an MP5?

Yes, we've all heard that so many times before, and I agree with it. However; Someone with a knife, or even a hunting rifle, isn't going to do nearly as much damage as someone with a MP5. I haven't seen a single person on any of these gun law threads say anything along the lines of, take all guns off the market. Though that seems to be what those who are on the side of gun freedom seem to be reading.

 

[Riverjet]

I use mine for hunting and target shooting. What do you use them for?

again what is the purpose of a gun? seems to me it is to kill, unless you can think of something else

 

[Riverjet]

#1 Please define "high powered weapons".
#3 How will it minimize massacres?

Rebuttal
1) I don't think high powered weapons have a place in the general public's hands, however, gun ranges can have access to them, and people can go and pay to get that rush at the range.
2) Most cities don't allow sleds in town, but some cities/towns do. Yellowknife for example.
3) I don't think anyone is expecting these massacres to completely stop happening with some form of gun control, but it will minimize them from happening.
4) I already wrote a lengthy response to this. However; here it goes again. Sledding is a dangerous activity, as is something like skiing. Participants are knowingly putting themselves at risk, and the majority of us sledders know these risks and know what to do to minimize these risks. Accidents will always happen, but I'm not putting innocent lives in danger when I go out sledding. I'm putting myself in danger and I'm aware of that.
5) I honestly have no idea how cars over 150hp and motor bikes relate to clips larger than 10 rounds. Again, motorcyclists are knowingly putting themselves at risk.

Drive through a school yard at recess with a jacked up 4x4 and you will end up getting 20 years for vehicular manslaughter.