Now...can we get some investors?

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pistoncontracting

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DaveB said:
Sounds like there are a few forward-thinkers who agree with the sentiment of many of us on S&M that we should just refine the oil here....
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Refining more raw products here in Canada is a great idea. I think the biggest hurdle, aside from the permits and regulations, is filling the new positions, both skilled and not. The labour shortage we have currently would only be magnified.

IF we could get people motivated, and get them to lose there sense of entitlement, it would be a win for everyone involved.
 
mathrulz

mathrulz

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DaveB said:
According to the people mentioned in that article (Ronald Schlenker, a senior instructor in economics at the University of Calgary... and others) it IS profitable.
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It's hard to say without looking at the numbers. I've seen a few scenarios from different analysts - based on various projected pricing models. Obviously, taking a barrel of bitumen or oil, refining it, and selling a value added product seems to make sense. And strictly in terms of the process, it may be profitable on a semi-large scale. Including up front capital costs, operating costs, and the need for sustaining projects at Canadian and Albertan prices makes the opportunity for a profit rather small. Also consider the red tape with all the regulatory needs - upwards of a decade between applications and starting up - Alberta needs to move oil today.

Several upgraders and refineries have been canceled or delayed within Alberta over the past few years. Some by large national and international companies that have been around for decades and know how to earn a profit. If the risk/reward opportunity was there - they'd be building refineries.
 
deaner

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I agree that we should be processing our own raw materials and keeping the jobs and profits here. I thought I read something a long time ago that said our climate is not good for refining? It takes way more energy because of our cold climate? Maybe Im wrong though. I do like the idea of doing our own processing of all of our raw materials. If we dont have the labor, then the economy is obviously doing pretty darn good. Companies should only be allowed to bring on raw material production if the corresponding ability to process those materials is in place.
 
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lloydguy

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Anyone saying refining oil in Canada isn't profitable sounds stupid to me.When was the last time an oil company
reported a net loss?(pumping oil,cleaning it,shipping it,refining it,ect,ect)
Co-op has been expanding hand over fist year after year and they don't even pump it to the
surface themselves (where there is even more profit involved.)They buy a raw product,refine it,truck it and sell it.
The last I checked Co-op wasn't a charity and hasn't had any red tape showing on their books.
If a raw product needs to handled by 10 sub sections of the same company before you get a finished product
and 9 of those divisions are making record profits year after year then whats the big deal about that one section
of the company not making as much as the rest?
I'm just a simple minded dummy,but when diesel is supposedly so high in price because we are just barely producing
as much as we are using ,then why is the Lloyd upgrader loading rail cars with it going to the states?
 
ferniesnow

ferniesnow

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oneyewilly said:
just because u like to take it up the azz from Harper ! doesn't mean we all have to .
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I'd rather take it from him than anyone you would vote for!

Presumably you don't like getting it from Harper or Trudeau.........you are in serious trouble azz-hat. It is like everyone keeps saying, "you are in phucking dream world"
 
mathrulz

mathrulz

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I think it's a complicated decision. Many oil companies actually do not turn a profit for years. In the oil sands, the explosion of SAGD development has lead to many smaller companies starting up - most can't find enough investor dollars and fail. There's only profit on a large enough scale. And the large guys have to be continually spending money to build and develop new infrastructure and wells to maintain and grow their production, as existing wells die off. If they had to also set aside billions to construct a refinery, it would be very tough to be profitable at all. Only the large, already fully-integrated companies like Suncor and Shell would afford it. And even Suncor, cancelled one of their upgraders recently as it was going to take nearly 2 centuries to pay for itself (given current pricing model forecasts).

The Co-op refinery was originally built in the 1930's I believe - it's a totally different ball game to build these projects now-a-days. Also, Saskatchewan regulations are much different than Alberta.
 
RZR101

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imdoo'n said:
okay dave ya can put me down for a twenty should have the rest at the end of the summer. will round up all the empties from suds buds functions and turn them into black gold. should have a 1/2 billion by end of sept. and if you , jeff and andy also contribute we may have the other half.
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Leave me out of this Larry, my empty fund goes to restocking the cooler.
 
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