North Dore?

[Canadian Country Cabins]

Cresent Spur apparently got the axe also. At least there will be no more avy deaths if we can't ride. Just rent a room and get pissed watching heli ski videos.

Here is a thread that shows maps of what closesd and whats not. Crescent Spur is far from closed.

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f3/mountain-cariboo-map-morkill-24227.html

Thanks

 

[snochuk]

Here is a thread that shows maps of what closesd and whats not. Crescent Spur is far from closed.

https://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f3/mountain-cariboo-map-morkill-24227.html

Thanks

Unless I missed something on Google, Back Country Road Maps and the closure maps (all of them) Cresent Spur is closed in the alpine. Only log roads open and Forgetmenot. ALL of Wallop is closed as well ALL Rider Mt range . If I am wrong PLEASE correct me as I'd like the ride the area but don't want to ride illegal.

 

[High Velocity]

Cuso, which dumbaZZes are you refering to ? As far as sleds pushing caribou into more avy-prone areas, I'm pretty sure I read an article last winter about a herd of caribou being killed by an avy in a National Park. I'm hoping there would not have been any sled tracks there, so what drove them into the dangerous terrain ?? The truth of the matter is that in the animal kingdom, the caribou isn't very high on the intelligence scale. I lived in the Yukon for four years and friends of mine hunted caribou every fall. They described it like shooting fish in a barrel. Someone would shoot a caribou out of the herd and the rest would run off, only to come walking back within a couple of minutes to see what scared them in the first place. The process would repeat itself until all the guys had filled their tags. Natural selection at work, as far as I see it. If you want to belive all the enviro-wacko/tree hugger/PETA crap, then maybe you should start by selling any and all power toys you have. I think I'm starting to figure out who the "dumbaZZes" are.

 

[snochuk]

I can't believe how many fugtards are on this thread.

It is not just caribou, but the mountain caribou.... dumbaZZes, there is a difference. It is a breed of only a couple thousand on earth, a near extinct species. Small herds, sparse herds.

Unfortunately it is believed that sled tracks make an easy highway for predators to access Mountain caribou habitat...which was once much more difficult. I am not saying that a loud helicopter does not disturb them either... as well as us. These animals get driven away from their areas, to more avy prone areas too.

Here are a couple of links, if some of you guys are intelligent enough to actually absorb this info.
Home | Mountain Caribou

Actually there are only montain caribou in these areas of BC, the others are barrin ground caribou and they just don't hang out where we ride.
Second, the wolves and mostly the cougars stay in close proximity to the heards and don't use the ski-doo tracks as some uninformed individuals like to claim. The cougars at the bar in town are not the ones that make the kills up on the hill, sorry they don't migrate, they just stay close to their food.
Third, I have no real issue with closures for caribou, oops mountain caribou. I have three children and I want them to have all of the outdoors and natures creatures to enjoy the same as me, a fifth generation Canadian farmer who helps feed your sorry green arses.
What I have issues with is discriminatory closures. If an area is closed it is CLOSED. Do not use sledders as an easy target to look good to the pulic cause you are saving the mountain caribou from those bad sledders while leaving access to special interest groups who buy their way into the areas. You got it, that is the heli and cat skiers!!! only 5-7% of these customers are Canadian and watching my country sold to forgieners while my fellow Canadians are banished really frosts the family jewels.While we are at it loggers should not be in the closed areas either as they are thoe ones who distroy habitat faster than anything else including fires. But if the loggers are out the govt collects no stumpage fees. Dam, we're back to the easy target sledders.
MEANIGFUL MANAGEMENT, go ahead and CLOSE access to everyone but foot traffic to the areas where the mountain caribou actually are. Monitor for Actual herd recovery. Reassess and open/ close areas as required.
The present "closure" system is purely based on special intest group politics and mislead politicians who have been swayed by lobiests with extemist agendas.
Canadians should always have the use of Canada before forgien tourists as long as meaningful guidelines are followed to preserve our coutry for OUR children.
Sorry if I am not as dense or stupid as some people would like sledders to be.

 

[Summitric]

WOW, WELL PUT SNOCHUK.......... COULDN'T HAVE RANTED OR RAVED ANY BETTER MYSELF.
SNOCHUK FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

 

[snochuk]

WOW, WELL PUT SNOCHUK.......... COULDN'T HAVE RANTED OR RAVED ANY BETTER MYSELF.
SNOCHUK FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

You don't want me for Prime Minister cause your taxes would go up as the population drops when I boot all the dumb azzes out of this wounderfull country.:d

 

[CUSO]

Cuso, which dumbaZZes are you refering to ? As far as sleds pushing caribou into more avy-prone areas, I'm pretty sure I read an article last winter about a herd of caribou being killed by an avy in a National Park. I'm hoping there would not have been any sled tracks there, so what drove them into the dangerous terrain ?? The truth of the matter is that in the animal kingdom, the caribou isn't very high on the intelligence scale. I lived in the Yukon for four years and friends of mine hunted caribou every fall. They described it like shooting fish in a barrel. Someone would shoot a caribou out of the herd and the rest would run off, only to come walking back within a couple of minutes to see what scared them in the first place. The process would repeat itself until all the guys had filled their tags. Natural selection at work, as far as I see it. If you want to belive all the enviro-wacko/tree hugger/PETA crap, then maybe you should start by selling any and all power toys you have. I think I'm starting to figure out who the "dumbaZZes" are.

There are more than one species of caribou

 

[High Velocity]

There are more than one species of caribou

Yes, I'm aware there are various sub-species of caribou. However, any of the reading I've done regarding the various caribou types (or sub-species) have not shown any of them to be extremely intelligent. This is actually irrelevant though.
The original concerns stated here are the loss of riding areas due to caribou closures. I, personally, do not believe for a minute that closing these areas will do anything to save the caribou. Their numbers are declining in national parks where there is no influence from man. My friends and I have lost a few great riding areas where we have never seen a caribou track, much less a caribou. How is closing these areas going to save the caribou ? In areas where the caribou do live and we sled, they seem to prefer the packed snow that sleds leave behind vs. chest deep powder in the closure areas - Frisby Ridge is a prime example where I as well as others have witnessed this exact thing. Also remember that if this caribou thing ever loses momentum for the enviro-nazis, they will find other ways to try and shut us down. The agenda of these types of organizations is a lot deeper and darker than trying to save a few critters that we're not hurting in the first place.

 

[CUSO]

Sorry fellas, I retract my post, and removed it. I think I skimmed through too fast and made a rash post That's it, no more drinkin' at the neighbor's before posting.. LOL
For some reason, I over reacted. I was sure I saw more posts than I see tonight.

I guess my point was, so many people think that these species are just like the rest and think that just because you can buy a tag and hunt some, that they are all the same.

I agree with the heli skiers and cat skier issue, that they come over here and just buy access to out backcountry with minimal restriction. Hell, look at my sig.

I see the mountain caribou from time to time and their tracks too, as well as other animal tracks.

As for hurting these creatures, I once saw in Allan Creek, in the spring, a sledder harassing one with his sled, brapping by the animal while it was trying to run away. I never caught up to the guy to tune him in, wish I did though.
Another person I know overheard that someone rode by one and slapped it's ass/and thought it was awesome. Not cool.

Snochuck, Barren ground caribou are only found in arctic places like Yukon, NWT... B.C. has Boreal, northern, and Mountain.

Here is an interesting study, I doubt the greenies were involved, since they used collars and choppers.
Is shows places like wells gray showing an increase, while Frisby, and allan show a decrease.
Population survey


Peace out.

 

[snochuk]

Sorry fellas, I retract my post, and removed it. I think I skimmed through too fast and made a rash post That's it, no more drinkin' at the neighbor's before posting.. LOL
For some reason, I over reacted. I was sure I saw more posts than I see tonight.

I guess my point was, so many people think that these species are just like the rest and think that just because you can buy a tag and hunt some, that they are all the same.

I agree with the heli skiers and cat skier issue, that they come over here and just buy access to out backcountry with minimal restriction. Hell, look at my sig.

I see the mountain caribou from time to time and their tracks too, as well as other animal tracks.

As for hurting these creatures, I once saw in Allan Creek, in the spring, a sledder harassing one with his sled, brapping by the animal while it was trying to run away. I never caught up to the guy to tune him in, wish I did though.
Another person I know overheard that someone rode by one and slapped it's ass/and thought it was awesome. Not cool.

Snochuck, Barren ground caribou are only found in arctic places like Yukon, NWT... B.C. has Boreal, northern, and Mountain.

Here is an interesting study, I doubt the greenies were involved, since they used collars and choppers.
Is shows places like wells gray showing an increase, while Frisby, and allan show a decrease.
Population survey


Peace out.

There a lot of factors that affect populations. Predetor and prey populations have natual cycles and prey population can be affected by something as simple as parasites that naturally live on animals. Habitat lose is usually the greatest factor in any species demise. You hear nothing of any corrective action for these factors in the reports used. You do get good fear mongering on what is "believed" and not "proven".
High Velocity, you hit the nail on the head. The caribou are an excuse used by special interest groups to block everyone else from accessing the back country and they don't blink an eye on how dishonest their tactics are. If they have a story that suckers believe they will use it.
Cuso, if you read the reports you have posted take a red pen circle every "believe", "possibly" and "thought to". Now read the reports again and have a closer look at what is actually "proven". Pretty sad isn't it but if it souds good people suck it right up. If you read my post a little closer I told you that barren ground caribou don't live in B.C.
Ther caribou need their areas of protection, but how much? If they can't recover protected in a park they most certainly will not recover in areas with active cat skiing, heli skiing and logging. COMPLETLY CLOSE ares for the caribou and open other areas that have none, this would be the meaningful managemnt part .
Call a spade a spade......this is politics not protection!

 

[CUSO]

There a lot of factors that affect populations. Predetor and prey populations have natual cycles and prey population can be affected by something as simple as parasites that naturally live on animals. Habitat lose is usually the greatest factor in any species demise. You hear nothing of any corrective action for these factors in the reports used. You do get good fear mongering on what is "believed" and not "proven".
High Velocity, you hit the nail on the head. The caribou are an excuse used by special interest groups to block everyone else from accessing the back country and they don't blink an eye on how dishonest their tactics are. If they have a story that suckers believe they will use it.
Cuso, if you read the reports you have posted take a red pen circle every "believe", "possibly" and "thought to". Now read the reports again and have a closer look at what is actually "proven". Pretty sad isn't it but if it souds good people suck it right up. If you read my post a little closer I told you that barren ground caribou don't live in B.C.
Ther caribou need their areas of protection, but how much? If they can't recover protected in a park they most certainly will not recover in areas with active cat skiing, heli skiing and logging. COMPLETLY CLOSE ares for the caribou and open other areas that have none, this would be the meaningful managemnt part .
Call a spade a spade......this is politics not protection!

Perhaps you should circle with a red pen where you said that Barren Ground Caribou do not live in B.C.
Wait, I will do it for you...

Actually there are only montain caribou in these areas of BC, the others are barrin ground caribou and they just don't hang out where we ride/QUOTE]

Do you know which herd affects you area? try looking on the map in my previous link. How do you know where these animals are? North cariboo mountain range has the second largest herd....(Dore area)
And like I said before, the populations are growing in Wells gray, the national park.
People say that they never see them, like in Frisby... well they are lower down in the early season, When Frisby is open to sledding, and migrate up into the higher elevations later in the winter. That is why they close these types of areas to sledders at those times.

More info

 

[snochuk]

Perhaps you should circle with a red pen where you said that Barren Ground Caribou do not live in B.C.
Wait, I will do it for you...

Actually there are only montain caribou in these areas of BC, the others are barrin ground caribou and they just don't hang out where we ride/QUOTE]

Do you know which herd affects you area? try looking on the map in my previous link. How do you know where these animals are? North cariboo mountain range has the second largest herd....(Dore area)
And like I said before, the populations are growing in Wells gray, the national park.
People say that they never see them, like in Frisby... well they are lower down in the early season, When Frisby is open to sledding, and migrate up into the higher elevations later in the winter. That is why they close these types of areas to sledders at those times.

More info

Thanks for the education on which side of the fence you're on. Either Green Peace, Serria Club or Peta should be knocking on you door any day now cause man are you ever the kinda guy they are looking for.

 

[Caper11]

There have been alot of closures to sleds this year not only the mcbride areas,
For years sledders have been in the crosshairs of certain groups because of there belief's, but certain individuals among the sledders in canada and US bring attention to us by doing something stupid, like for example "sledding on a heliskiing chute" or "riding out of bounds".
There are many factors that lead to the cariboo herd numbers dropping, but the biggest one and this is no secret, it's logging, cariboo survive in old growth forests , and during the winter they eat the lichens that hang off trees, Old mans beard for example.
Take away there habitat and the heard will relocate or perish.
Am I happy about the closures NO!! am I surprised the dore is closed NO!! I'm not, heli skiers have alot more money than we do, BUT keep in mind BC is also considering cat skiiing and heli skiing as part of these closures as well which are called "winter motorized recreation tenures"
The only thing we can do as a group is join the club where you ride the most and hope things will get better in the future.

 

[snochuk]

That is exactly what I'm getting at Caper11. I'm not aginst the closures if they apply to everyone, actually have herds to recover in the area and all aspects of the herd decline are being addressed by the closure. My beef is whith political closures that may look good to the general public but have little or no benifit to the caribou. Now we can only support our clubs and try to have meaningful management brought into the picture. And yes we can be our own worst enemy with debris left on the hills and riding heli runs or closed areas. Never could understand that one, the runs are clearly marked and there is the rest of the area to use for sledders. There will hopefully be areas reopened one day.

 

[Itsworthit]

I find it supprising that the big 4 sled manufacturers are not on the band wagon with funding and expertize to help keep these areas open, ultimatly they, along with us comsumers, are the ones that will suffer. No mountian ares to sled = no production of mountian sleds, does anyone out there have any pull, to let them know about the closeures, maybe they are unaware of the extent of the consequences of all the closeures???????

 

[Itsworthit]

We picked up 2 memberships Fri nite from Denise, (waz over for a visit), Glen didn't have any but was getting them in the morning, Rienshaw was great Sat

 

[glengine]

Barry dropped off a new book for us so we are stocked up and ready to help anyone lookin for a membership to the mcbride big country snowmobile club..

 

[maxwell]

so if this species is so small how many years until they are competely gone and this is no longer an issue. im sick of all this. caribou dying has nothing to do with sledding. its natural. they were designed to fail. no food.cold temps. few numbers. lots of predators.deep snow.

 

[psaruga]

we were at the dore this last weekend and saw absolutley no postings to say it was closed at the start of the trail.
we did not ride it but talked to a group of riders that rode both the south and the north and they state taht they saw no signage that states that either is a closed area.
was also talking to the trapper and contractor that keeps the road cleared and he has not heard of any areas that are closed.
all other areas that are closed are clearly posted.

whats up

is it open or closed

 

[snochuk]

we were at the dore this last weekend and saw absolutley no postings to say it was closed at the start of the trail.
we did not ride it but talked to a group of riders that rode both the south and the north and they state taht they saw no signage that states that either is a closed area.
was also talking to the trapper and contractor that keeps the road cleared and he has not heard of any areas that are closed.
all other areas that are closed are clearly posted.

whats up

is it open or closed

Read all of the links above. As a backcountryt user YOU are required to know what is closed or open, posting is not required. Middle and north Dore are closed and only a small portion of South Dore is open with all of Dore River closed for access.