NO to Enbridge

[badss]

hey Modman...sorry ...but I didn't say that you said those things, I did, However what I should have said is in referense to your statement of "every minute that they have a pipeline shut in there losing money". Thats is what I was referrring to that you said. I said the other statments....sorry if that got misrepresented...I should have wrote that differently. The point that I was trying to make is that they knowingly do not operate that way and would never take that kind of a risk if they knew there was something wrong anywhere on their system.

Bottom line is the calculated risk assement that is needed to make an informed decision as to what is the lesser I suppose of many different evils are when it comes to making decisions as to whether or not ceritan projects should go ahead ...especially in super senstitive area's...but every area is sensitive to someone or something...so really we all need to ensure that every precaution irregardless of what we are doing is the best informed decision to mitigate any potential catastrophic failures.

There are many sensitive issues with all sorts of industry and I do agree with some of the statements made about integrity testing and options when it comes to pipelines etc.

Its all relevant to supply and demand and at the end of the day we are all stewards of the envirnoment irregardless of which province we live or work in.

 

[Sofa king]

what would kevin costner do????

 

[glengine]

what would kevin costner do????

who cares!!!

 

[Stompin Tom]

Much of what you say is true, but I would say to the commercial fishermen "the oilfield workers livelihood is important too, as without the oil producers, there would be no jobs in the oil patch." Are the fishermen going to agree to pick up the tab for the longer route of the pipeline to avoid the salmon areas, because they sure like to use the product to power their boats. One is not more important than the other, and denying a project, which will create more jobs in BC than even in Alberta because commercial fishermen think that even the miniscule possibility of a spill is too great a risk is not reasonable. As for the route of the pipeline, I don't know how you'd get the pipeline to the coast, whether it be the west coast or north to the arctic coast, without crossing sensitive habitat. The people up north would argue the same "environmental" impact issues, so who do you please and who do you p@#$s off?

1st let me say I am in favor of the pipeline being built.

Now to your post. I 100% disagree. My main beef, you come off as though it is the right of Enbridge to build the pipeline. IT IS NOT. They have to get the permission of the people of BC to build the pipeline and lease the property. They dont have the right to build, just the right to ask to build.

How it effects jobs for one group or another has Zero relevance in this situation.

 

[Bogger]

the little red line in my drawing would scale to about 6km wide....



If there were a catastrophic multiple pipeline rupture that somehow went un noticed for a period of time to spread 3km outward in each direction every part of that map thats NOT RED would remain relatively uneffected... there might be other much thinner red lines shooting off to represent offchute streams but to say that the BC environment would be ruined and no longer available to enjoy....

Don't get me wrong I'm all for the protection of the environment I just find it funny how people can make such a fuss over a minor disturbance in one area while all around us ongoing development leaves a much bigger long term footprint than most industry activity... remember the kennedy space centre is bigger than the oilsands activity. There is risk involved in any venture and we can put the onus on the builder/owner to properly construct and maintain the structure.... if maxwell-forbid that fails and there is a rupture the onus is on them to deal with the clean-up but in the grand scheme of things the footprint both best-case and worst-case of such an endeavour will be miniscule.... over time the highways will produce much more irreversable environmental impact than a pipeline..

 

[glengine]

Even a 2km wide spill along that red wouldn't be cool at all in my opinion.. Crap even a .5km wide spill wouldn't be cool. It would have far reaching affects as far as the fisheries and wildlife go.

I understand that you are using a worst case scenario.

And that is the pipeline that is already there and they are planning to put more? I thought that the pipeline was so that they could access more markets?? But there is already a pipeline to vancouver so why do they need another one? Cant they ship oil from there to asia and such?

 

[TROLLCAT]

read the sign

somebody have one for me I don't drink [fawk I miss those dayz]

 

[fat tire]

Pipeline spills occur more often than we think, it's just that it never makes the news and are not always public info. balance is the key here, truth is no company or person wants to have a rupture of any kind, that being said stuff happens and after some time passes we'll all find the next thing to gripe about. so have as much fun and make as much money out of this current news as you can....... but remember be safe and don't go leaking anywhere.....hahhahahhahahah! ( yeah for the news yeah).

 

[modmanmike]

Even a 2km wide spill along that red wouldn't be cool at all in my opinion.. Crap even a .5km wide spill wouldn't be cool. It would have far reaching affects as far as the fisheries and wildlife go.

I understand that you are using a worst case scenario.

And that is the pipeline that is already there and they are planning to put more? I thought that the pipeline was so that they could access more markets?? But there is already a pipeline to vancouver so why do they need another one? Cant they ship oil from there to asia and such?

yes there is a pipeline to vancouver but its not an oil pipeline its natural gas.

and to badss I think we both misread how i meant about the" every minute the pipeline is down they lose money" thing. What I was getting at is how vigorously they monitor there lines. Having a line down for an hour while a controller or sensor or valve of some sort is repaired is one thing. But the reason is cuz when they have a rupture they are not making money for days or weeks and they dont like cleanup costs and downtime costs. shareholders dont like that. so they monitor as good as they can within set guidelines to minimize and manage risk. I think your on the same page as me on this anyway! You know all to well about waste oil cleanup!!!

 

[pistonbroke800]

Just found out the real story tonight from a friend of mine. He was running the panel for that line in the Olds control room that night and is now unemployed. Chitty deal for him now that i know the real facts on what went down.

 

[modmanmike]

Just found out the real story tonight from a friend of mine. He was running the panel for that line in the Olds control room that night and is now unemployed. Chitty deal for him now that i know the real facts on what went down.

acknlowledge reset, acknowledge reset, acknnowledge reset, acknowledge reset????

 

[pistonbroke800]

acknlowledge reset, acknowledge reset, acknnowledge reset, acknowledge reset????

Ya field guy telling control room all is good, control room resetting and alarm not clearing. Tried that a few times before the field guy figured out what was going on. Control room guy loses his job...one of those things where heads gotta roll i guess. Very unfortunate for a single income family with two little girls.

 

[fargineyesore]

1st let me say I am in favor of the pipeline being built.

Now to your post. I 100% disagree. My main beef, you come off as though it is the right of Enbridge to build the pipeline. IT IS NOT. They have to get the permission of the people of BC to build the pipeline and lease the property. They dont have the right to build, just the right to ask to build.

How it effects jobs for one group or another has Zero relevance in this situation.

Please show me where I said it is the right of Enbridge to build the pipeline. I said Enbridge would not be able to build until they get a Certificate from the NEB. Obviously they have to attempt to get landowner permission to go across their land, but it's so obvious I didn't bother to mention it. If they can't get individual landowner permission to cross, the NEB decides whether to make them find another route or grants them permission and holds an arbitration hearing for the compensation And, since this would cross provincial borders, it would be regulated by the National Energy Board, the Province of BC would not have the final say as to whether the pipeline gets built or not, the NEB would, which is Federal jurisdiction. The Province can object and intervene in any hearings, but the ultimate decision lies with the NEB. Like it or not, that's the way the system works for all provinces when a pipeline crosses provincial borders.

 

[maierch]

Even a 2km wide spill along that red wouldn't be cool at all in my opinion.. Crap even a .5km wide spill wouldn't be cool. It would have far reaching affects as far as the fisheries and wildlife go.

I understand that you are using a worst case scenario.

And that is the pipeline that is already there and they are planning to put more? I thought that the pipeline was so that they could access more markets?? But there is already a pipeline to vancouver so why do they need another one? Cant they ship oil from there to asia and such?

Bogger's representation doesn't represent the proposed route for the Endbridge pipeline however that's pretty close to the route of the Transmountain pipeline currently owned by Kinder Morgan Canada. This line is a 24"-36" pipeline that runs from Edmonton to Vancouver. This line has been transporting crude to the coast since 1953.

The pipeline is to be built from Bruderheim in Alberta to Kitimat. For part of the way it will parallel PNG's gas line that runs from the Prince George Area out to Prince Rupert. More info about the propsed Endbridge pipeline can be found at . I've also attached the route map of the proposed line.

The reason another pipeline is needed is currently Kinder Morgan has a Monopoly on the transportation of all crude to Asia. Because of this they can decide how much to charge the producers to transport their products. Also with Asia getting more energy hungry Kinder Morgan is having to run their pipeline harder and harder to meet the demands. Over the course of 50+ years this hard cycling causes cracking which leads to huge integrity issues. Long story short this proposed pipeline will give Canada more options on where to export our oil instead of always taking a NAFTA bath on it sending it to the US. (The Cushing "Discount" someone was talking about before)

At the end of the day I can understand why you wouldn't want this pipeline in your backyard but its my opinion that the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

[frock]

Some really good info Maierch, but there is a small mistake in there.

"this proposed pipeline will give Canada more options on where to export our oil instead of always taking a NAFTA bath on it sending it to the US."

This is not our oil! If it was, the taxman wouldn't be raping us on a regular basis :d.

 

[maierch]

Some really good info Maierch, but there is a small mistake in there.

"this proposed pipeline will give Canada more options on where to export our oil instead of always taking a NAFTA bath on it sending it to the US."

This is not our oil! If it was, the taxman wouldn't be raping us on a regular basis :d.

True story! The sad part is it IS our oil! The Raping is more of Government problem than an Oil problem!

 

[glengine]

It's to bad that there wasn't more refineries here to make more fuel right here in canada. I was told yesterday that the dudes over in alot of the arab countries that have oil and make there gas sell there gas dirt heap at the pumps in tehre own countries. I'm not sure what all the factors are involved in that but sure wish we actually produced more of what we need and use fuel wise.. But because i'm not in the oil industry i dont know it might be that easy as just building plants to produce more here.

 

[eclipse1966]

It's to bad that there wasn't more refineries here to make more fuel right here in canada. I was told yesterday that the dudes over in alot of the arab countries that have oil and make there gas sell there gas dirt heap at the pumps in tehre own countries. I'm not sure what all the factors are involved in that but sure wish we actually produced more of what we need and use fuel wise.. But because i'm not in the oil industry i dont know it might be that easy as just building plants to produce more here.

I watched a show about a year ago and they took a Toyota Camry and calculated how many km $80 cdn in gas will get you in other oil producing countries. I cant remember the exact figures but Venezuela you can drive approx 3200 KM, Nigeria over 2000, S.Arabia 3000. Canada was the worst at around 1000 km if I recall. Even US was better just cant remember the distance.

 

[glengine]

Bogger's representation doesn't represent the proposed route for the Endbridge pipeline however that's pretty close to the route of the Transmountain pipeline currently owned by Kinder Morgan Canada. This line is a 24"-36" pipeline that runs from Edmonton to Vancouver. This line has been transporting crude to the coast since 1953.

The pipeline is to be built from Bruderheim in Alberta to Kitimat. For part of the way it will parallel PNG's gas line that runs from the Prince George Area out to Prince Rupert. More info about the propsed Endbridge pipeline can be found at . I've also attached the route map of the proposed line.

The reason another pipeline is needed is currently Kinder Morgan has a Monopoly on the transportation of all crude to Asia. Because of this they can decide how much to charge the producers to transport their products. Also with Asia getting more energy hungry Kinder Morgan is having to run their pipeline harder and harder to meet the demands. Over the course of 50+ years this hard cycling causes cracking which leads to huge integrity issues. Long story short this proposed pipeline will give Canada more options on where to export our oil instead of always taking a NAFTA bath on it sending it to the US. (The Cushing "Discount" someone was talking about before)

At the end of the day I can understand why you wouldn't want this pipeline in your backyard but its my opinion that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Thats good info. So the existing pipeline is pumpin oil? Modmanmike said it was pumpin naturalgas. So what is the pipeline that they ran thru jasper for?

 

[maierch]

Thats good info. So the existing pipeline is pumpin oil? Modmanmike said it was pumpin naturalgas. So what is the pipeline that they ran thru jasper for?

The Transmountain is a Liquids Line. The can transport everything from crude to diesel, gasoline, jet fuel, etc. I believe their main business is crude headed for the far east.

Terasen (Now FortisBC) has 24" Crude Oil pipeline that runs from Hinton and crosses the border near Jasper. I'm not sure where this pipeline runs from there as I only have access to the license data for Alberta Pipelines. I think this is the one that would have been constructed in the last few years.

Here's a couple more maps of BC's pipeline Systems. These maps show the major transmission lines for liquid and gas pipelienes. These are taken from www.cepa.com. Theres lots of good pipeline related reading on there as well.