Newer vehicles with r1234 and r747 refrigerant

[Summitric]

R134 might be used in the r1234 systems, just not as efficient... Would have to modify some hoses to make the guages/machine fit.

The r744 systems are being used on the high end european models.... C02 at extreme pressures - over 3000psi up to 9000psi !!! Must have bomb suit and certification to work on them

 

[Cat401]

heard about this from a buddy with a 2017 Ford F150 needing this new refrigerant. Checked under the hood of my '18 Silverado diesel and its still labeled as 134A

I just got the A/C in my '18 GMC 1500 fixed....shows r1234yf on the invoice

 

[busted2x]

I just got the A/C in my '18 GMC 1500 fixed....shows r1234yf on the invoice

Gm and ram have both only changed the 1/2 tons. 3/4+ are 134a. Different carb rating targets, and it’s cheaper.

 

[Caper11]

Why the change in refrigerant????

 

[turbo392]

Holy ****, reading all these comments makes me want to punch a hole in the wall. Let me clear up a few things for everybody:

1. Old school R-12, R-134a, and R-1234yf all run near identical pressures which are practically the lowest of any the refrigerants used today. (I could hold the pressure in with my thumb, that kind of low). The reason for R-12 being replaced with R-134a is because R-12 is a massive ozone depleting chemical. R-134a has now been replaced because it is a massive global warming chemical. (1 lb of 134a = 1300 lbs of carbon dioxide, 1234yf = 4 lb of carbon dioxide)

2. R-744 is just carbon dioxide and is used in most new grocery stores built in the last 5 years, many that I have built. The pressures are higher but I think this is where all refrigeration & air conditioning will end up and it is certainly safe as it is literally a fire extinguisher in case of a vehicle crash. ALL other refrigerants, when burnt, break down into hydrochloric or hydrofluoric acidic gas which is essentially mustard gas from WWI and will permanently damage your lungs. (many in my trade have experienced this at least a little while brazing connections in the field) CO2 used in air-conditioning will run at pressures around 550 psi and 1400 psi max, instead of 35 psi and 250 psi like the others, not a big deal as the components will just be stainless steel instead of copper and aluminum.

3. My 2014 Dodge's a/c has also crapped out, likely leaking from the crappy condenser drier connection like everybody else. I will certainly be evacuating and recharging it with R-134a myself, just waiting on my Amazon adapter this Monday. The efficiency will be slightly greater with R-134a and even more with the heat exchangers built into newer vehicles. The same PAG oil in the compressor will work with both refrigerants.

4. R-134a is a terrible refrigerant and has a terrible efficiency compared to other flavours, but automotive a/c has always wanted the lowest pressures to reduce leakage.

5. In Europe anyway, some car manufacturers are still opting to pay the government penalty of using R-134a and just building it into the price of the vehicle. Good for them, until they figure out what's going to work long-term and actually has a global supply.

 

[tex78]

U mean r12= global warming


R134a= climate change


Total b. S in my mind, old David Suzuki sure made his cash on that sh! T



Now 134 has some hydrocarbons in it ( propane) and I have heard tons of farmers using propane in tractors a. C, as it's by far the best gas-liquid exchange

 

[turbo392]

U mean r12= global warming


R134a= climate change


Total b. S in my mind, old David Suzuki sure made his cash on that sh! T



Now 134 has some hydrocarbons in it ( propane) and I have heard tons of farmers using propane in tractors a. C, as it's by far the best gas-liquid exchange

Most refrigerants are entirely hydrocarbon based. R-134a has zero propane in it, but propane itself is an excellent refrigerant and direct replacement for R-22 used in building A/C and refrigeration. The new R-1234yf is an alcohol.

 

[gunner3006]

Small propane systems are being sold now. In restaurant equipment. Great refrigerant. The only real refrigerant used in the oil and gas industry as well. C02 is really cheap, pressures are to high though for it to become a real popular refrigerant. As well as it’s been around for a long time. 134a is cheap. 717. Also a great refrigerant. Cheap.

 

[retiredpop]

Off topic a bit but where does the Red Tek 12a being sold all over the place come in? Replacement for R12 and R134A.

Their write up also says "Environment: 100% natural organic refrigerant, non-ozone depleting, non-global warming."

True or False?

 

[gunner3006]

False. Do not put that chit in your vehicle.

 

[turbo392]

Off topic a bit but where does the Red Tek 12a being sold all over the place come in? Replacement for R12 and R134A.

Their write up also says "Environment: 100% natural organic refrigerant, non-ozone depleting, non-global warming."

True or False?

R12a is a blend of propane and isobutane. They called it ‘organic’ because it is not synthetically formed, just pulled out at a gas plant. It works good, but also burns real good. The red-tek crap comes with oil, dye and sealants that just contaminates the system.

 

[YamaDad]

I totally agree with the Red Tek assessment; leave it in the store.

With any refrigerant they must not be mixed, so even if you used Red Tek you would have to remove any remaining refrigerant (what ever it was) and fill completely with the new stuff. To do that you must use a recovery unit and put it (the remaining old refrigerant) in a bottle. Then the empty system must be pumped down to a deep vacuum to remove any moisture or non condensables. Both steps require specialized equipment so a professional is probably a better choice.

 

[busted2x]

I totally agree with the Red Tek assessment; leave it in the store.

With any refrigerant they must not be mixed, so even if you used Red Tek you would have to remove any remaining refrigerant (what ever it was) and fill completely with the new stuff. To do that you must use a recovery unit and put it (the remaining old refrigerant) in a bottle. Then the empty system must be pumped down to a deep vacuum to remove any moisture or non condensables. Both steps require specialized equipment so a professional is probably a better choice.

This is the best advice ^^^ because when it still doesn’t work, and we try to evacuate the system, and the refrig identifier locks the machine out, and we have to purge the machine, and waste an hour of the day, it makes everyone cranky.

 

[busted2x]

Holy ****, reading all these comments makes me want to punch a hole in the wall. Let me clear up a few things for everybody:

1. Old school R-12, R-134a, and R-1234yf all run near identical pressures which are practically the lowest of any the refrigerants used today. (I could hold the pressure in with my thumb, that kind of low). The reason for R-12 being replaced with R-134a is because R-12 is a massive ozone depleting chemical. R-134a has now been replaced because it is a massive global warming chemical. (1 lb of 134a = 1300 lbs of carbon dioxide, 1234yf = 4 lb of carbon dioxide)

2. R-744 is just carbon dioxide and is used in most new grocery stores built in the last 5 years, many that I have built. The pressures are higher but I think this is where all refrigeration & air conditioning will end up and it is certainly safe as it is literally a fire extinguisher in case of a vehicle crash. ALL other refrigerants, when burnt, break down into hydrochloric or hydrofluoric acidic gas which is essentially mustard gas from WWI and will permanently damage your lungs. (many in my trade have experienced this at least a little while brazing connections in the field) CO2 used in air-conditioning will run at pressures around 550 psi and 1400 psi max, instead of 35 psi and 250 psi like the others, not a big deal as the components will just be stainless steel instead of copper and aluminum.

3. My 2014 Dodge's a/c has also crapped out, likely leaking from the crappy condenser drier connection like everybody else. I will certainly be evacuating and recharging it with R-134a myself, just waiting on my Amazon adapter this Monday. The efficiency will be slightly greater with R-134a and even more with the heat exchangers built into newer vehicles. The same PAG oil in the compressor will work with both refrigerants.

4. R-134a is a terrible refrigerant and has a terrible efficiency compared to other flavours, but automotive a/c has always wanted the lowest pressures to reduce leakage.

5. In Europe anyway, some car manufacturers are still opting to pay the government penalty of using R-134a and just building it into the price of the vehicle. Good for them, until they figure out what's going to work long-term and actually has a global supply.

I have never heard of retrofitting backwards lol. Changed lots over from r12 to 134, but never back like that... what’s the calculation to figure out weight change between 134 and 1234? Or is there a change? And where are you buying the conversion valves? Pictures would be great.

 

[tex78]

This is the best advice ^^^ because when it still doesn’t work, and we try to evacuate the system, and the refrig identifier locks the machine out, and we have to purge the machine, and waste an hour of the day, it makes everyone cranky.

Yup, contamination in the machine from it

 

[turbo392]

I've now topped mine up with R-134a and its working perfect. If I need to add gas again this summer I will look for the leak, otherwise 30 seconds of work every Spring is more than acceptable to me.