New Sled Questions

[hihi962]

the dealer is just excited because someone is finally looking at that pos renegade no one wants. jk...

haha! well in a way you are right, because there are not many people out there with sprod's requests: "My other half won't be happy if I go to the mountains and she wants to come and I say sorry we have to take turns on the sled..."
to me that sounds like, a laid back day on the hills enjoying the view and playing around a little.

I for one would never buy one either, but seriously, only about 20% of time would there be the sled submarine conditions. the rest of the time, the snow is set well, wind blown, or packed down like a golf course, I bet 50% of the time my 1995 fan cooled skandic could make it up there!... i think some of you guys are forgeting about those conditions. don't forget, szprod is green to the sport, since he's been out of it for so long, he's not going to be doing too much crazy exploring looking for powder the first few years anyway...

 

[szprod]

haha! well in a way you are right, because there are not many people out there with sprod's requests: "My other half won't be happy if I go to the mountains and she wants to come and I say sorry we have to take turns on the sled..."
to me that sounds like, a laid back day on the hills enjoying the view and playing around a little.

I for one would never buy one either, but seriously, only about 20% of time would there be the sled submarine conditions. the rest of the time, the snow is set well, wind blown, or packed down like a golf course, I bet 50% of the time my 1995 fan cooled skandic could make it up there!... i think some of you guys are forgeting about those conditions. don't forget, szprod is green to the sport, since he's been out of it for so long, he's not going to be doing too much crazy exploring looking for powder the first few years anyway...

Yes your right, if I'm with her it would be more laid back but on the same hand we also need to keep up with the pack because I would not go alone so where ever the group goes I need to be able to follow. Or if my other half doesn't come along with me and I go alone I will remove the 2 up seat and ride with other people so I would need to go where everyone else is going and keep up. I also don't want to spend another 16k in a few years because the sled I have doesn't do what I want. Maybe my request is just to complicated and there is no real solution. maybe ya can't have it all hahaha.

If someone just lends me enough room in their garage for a sled I could just buy one for her and me and then problem is solved! bwahaha.

 

[DownhillBill]

What your dealer reccommends would be a fine choice. Just keep in mind if you get super hooked in the mountains like most doo:d before long you will be wishing you had a summit instead. Length wise, 154s are perfect imo. Manageable on the trail and enough to keep you on the snow when it gets deep!
Braap Braap!:d

 

[LINZ]

My first sled ever was an '08 Renegade 800R. I was new to snowmobiling, didn't really know what to get or exactly how it would be used. Well, it didn't take me long to realize it wasn't the best choice. I geared down, put on the wider pilots, taller riser and 1.75" track. Similar to what the backcountry Gade now is. It gets by. I later added a '10 154" Summit. MUCH better and no problems on the trail.

Unless you are going to ride packed trails ALL the time, go with the SUMMIT. It is easier to ride a snow/mountain machine on the trails, then ride a trail machine in the snow/mountains. You will NOT be riding 2up on anything other than packed snow.

Better yet. Get both.

 

[szprod]

"You will NOT be riding 2up on anything other than packed snow"

That's good to know, so really in the mountain powder I couldn't have her on the back of the sled anyhow.. so really doubling in the mountains is out unless im on packed trials and is there really many packed trails in the mountains? and if you are with other people in a group are they really going to want to ride trials? I doubt it based off the pics I see on here ahaha. So in that case it would be rare for her to come with me to the mountains because she would want to ride together with me on the same sled. So I will probably be alone going with other people to the mountains. And myself if I go to the mountains I would not stick to trials I would want to get into the powder, break my own trials and have fun.

 

[maxwell]

My first sled ever was an '08 Renegade 800R. I was new to snowmobiling, didn't really know what to get or exactly how it would be used. Well, it didn't take me long to realize it wasn't the best choice. I geared down, put on the wider pilots, taller riser and 1.75" track. Similar to what the backcountry Gade now is. It gets by. I later added a '10 154" Summit. MUCH better and no problems on the trail.

Unless you are going to ride packed trails ALL the time, go with the SUMMIT. It is easier to ride a snow/mountain machine on the trails, then ride a trail machine in the snow/mountains. You will NOT be riding 2up on anything other than packed snow.

Better yet. Get both.

truth right here. and hes not the only one on this site that has realized that. funny how all my 154 and 146 tracks dissapeared to guys with renegades this season.

as far as doubling in the mountains...im an experienced rider and i would never double. and when i have it was extremely difficult. you would not enjoy your experience doubling in my opinion.

get the summit 154 and the 2 up seat. take it off and go for a rip with some friends in the mountains.

 

[4x4racing]

its cheaper to buy more then you need then change it out later. doubling up there you will probbly end up getting rolled or hurt .

 

[DownhillBill]

If your doubling in the mountains off hard pack trail my best advice is to sit your passenger in front of you and they can hold the mountain bar. That way your free to stand and move around. With rider forward positioning on the new sleds the passengers weight stays fairly centered. I've boondocked, sidehilled, and hillclimbed with passenger in front and it isnt too much more difficult than riding without them there.
The Summit wont dissapoint you! :d

 

[jeremy]

I also think the dealer suggestion is right.

A renegade is a cross over sled, which is a mix of trail, and off trial riding. The back-country has wider skis and a bit more aggressive track, very important to you if you will ride the mountains. I would get a 146" track on it if you can though, 137" is a bit too light for the hills. The track is expensive to change later, but it can be done. See if the dealer can offer you a 146" track new - even if its going to cost more, it will be less expensive if you start this way. If it comes down to it though, the 137" will still take you around in the mountains, your just going to have to be a bit more careful with it.

I wouldn't look at a 600 if you are going the mountains. You will need 800 power. There is really no draw back to the 800 Etec other than the extra cost. The new Etec are fantastic. The have exceptional fuel economy, are extreamly well mannered and because of how clean they run I think they will prove to be more reliable. If you are not familiar with the Etec, this is 20+ year old evenrude technology that kept the outboards in 2 stroke all these years. Proven and solid.

Again, don't get a 600, you will regret it in the powderer - it takes a lot of power to move large volumes of snow and everyone else you go with will have an 800 and if you don't it will be more challenging for you to ride with them. More stuck, more frustration, less happy.

DO NOT get a 4 stoke if you want to ride in the powder. Serous mistake. They are way too heavy and unless you mod them they are seriously underpowered for deep snow and the extra weight. Also the heavy sled ends up going where it wants and not where you need it to. This is very bad for a beginner in the hills. Again the Etec is so clean, its not necessary to consider 4 stroke. By the way, 800 2 stroke is almost exactly the same weight as a 600, so if you think a 600 will be lighter, it really wont be.

Just for your own FYI: The renegade back country is actually fairly close to a summit (pure mountain sled). A GSX is a pure trial sled, it would be pretty hard to ride GSX in powder at all, the Renegade tries to be at neither extreme allowing you to function both on the trail and off, the main differences are (between Renegade and summit):

the size of the top gear (renegade will be 23 to 25 teeth, summit 19 teeth, smaller top gear is more torque on the track and easier on the belt, larger top gear is lower RPM on the trail and quieter).
Different ramps in the clutch, for lower RPM on the trail, a little later to down shift in the pow but still acceptable.
Coupled suspension which make it way nicer to ride on the trail!
Shocks a little more suited to trail riding
Slightly wider ski stance
Lower riser on the handle bars

You can essentially convert the renegade to summit by changing the top gear, changing the ramps and springs in the clutch and getting a taller riser. A non couple suspension would climb slightly better in the pow but I know a lot of guys that would rater have a couple suspension in the summit for the trail ride up and down to the pow.
The shocks in a renegade are not going to be up to serous pounding (jumping) like the summit, but unless you are doing that, it's not going to matter much.

If you going to make changes to the renegade for better powderer riding, the first thing would be the taller riser, then the top gear, then the clutch.

The nice thing with the renegade is your bases are covered for what you said you want.

this is bang on, I personally was looking at the same sled but not the 144, and went with the artic cat crossfire 700 for the wife, between a 600 and 800 which ski doo dosent offer. a 600 and she'd complain that i bitched out on her, and a 800 would be a little heavy. I think brand loyalty is cool, but that crossfire is nice and light compared to all of the rev's i've owned, and handles great on the trail and the powder.

 

[Steve D]

Not to mention, the new Summit's are narrower now. A wider ski stance makes riding two-up a lot more stable. I had to double a guy on a tundra one time up to a tower site, what a pain the ass. Something to consider anyway.

 

[steel town]

go for a summit 146 or 154. You live out west, the mountians, once you ride there and get the hang of it, will be the only place you ride. If you buy a renegade you will only be able to scatch the surface of the riding area's, with a summit, only your ability and the size of your cajones will hold you back, I have some 2010 non currents for good deals at the moment.. 146's or 163(1)......
My my buddies who still are stuck in Ontariable ride 146's as they make good backcountry sleds and are easy to carve deep pow on, the Gade's a-arms are too wide and push in the deep stuff, I had the wide freeride at the start of the season and hated the wide stance, I just bolted on a set up 2011 summit x a arms and got my shocks shortened by Enzo, the difference on how much easier the sled is to side hill and carve is UNREAL, wide stances are for people who trail ride in the east or race snowcross....
oh yeah, as somebody else said, unless your old lady is willing to tandem ride and allow you to ride WIDEOPEN to climb, you will not be double riding on anything less than groomed trails, double riding on a performance sled is like trying to double ride on a downhill mountian bike or a MX race bike, dangerous and just plain a waste of time......your better off just buying her a sled too....

 

[szprod]

Thanks for all the good information everyone! I will have to take all the info and figure out which to go with but we atleast have a couple of things nailed down. no less than a 800 and a 2 stroke. I also still think 154 track would be ideal which I doubt you can by right from the dealer floor with a Renegade. Sounds like you would have to spend another 2k just to extend it if you choose :/ so that leaves the summit at this point. One of the other questions is do you think the extended warrenty is worth getting?

 

[mxz sledhead]

I bought a 800 renegade backcountry seam to be a great machine great in the powder stay with the 1.75 track the 800 has a lot grunt power easily move around in the deep smooth on the st udder bumps iam going to the mountains
later this month and see what happens

 

[szprod]

Maybe someone could answer a couple other questions I have:

What's the best month during the year to buy a sled? Do they go on sale in the summer?

When you buy a new sled is it like buying a car where you can heckle the price down or do you just pay sticker price and that's it?

 

[maxwell]

pay the sticker price and you will get the same treatment back at you. not much to heckle. usually they will throw in a spare belt or a tarp.

usually there is some wicked deals on current season after febuary. or pick up a non curent for a great price any time

 

[Warhawk]

WHY only BRP???????????? lots of other good brands out there. and with better motors. Cat has a 800 2stroke awsome engine, Yamaha has nice 4 strokes. not sure on polaris as i don't follow them much.

I own a BRP and a CAT so keep your comments about brp being the best.

shop around its your money.

 

[maxwell]

youve had bad experiences with skidoo and ive had bad experiences with cat. so just becuase you think there junk doesnt mean everyone elses are.

 

[summ-it-up]

i kinda skimmed over this thread and i have a suggestion. are you set on the brand new sled? cause you could just buy 2 used ones for the 15k you will end up spending after all the paperwork is done.

just a suggestion, you could get a pretty nice summit 154 for your self and a nice 600 summit or the like for the mrs.

i've learned that doubling is never a fun thing, especially if the passenger isn't a experienced rider and knows the ins and out of leaning ect.

just my experience, ask my wife how fun it was to double on a boss seat
(i know this is why you wanted the 2 up.. just sayin lol)

 

[maxwell]

hes right theres lots of package deals that even come with trailers and whatnot for around 15g. some may even have warranty left

 

[szprod]

Yeah I really have to think about the options and what's best bang for the buck. It might be best to buy a year or two old sled for much cheaper than new and get the 2 up seat and then if that does not work out just simply buy another used sled for the other half. I have pretty much decided on 800 summit 154" and now just have to decide new or used. I'm cautious and don't like used because I don't know the history of the sled and the previous owner might have been hard on it. Guess I could make it a condition of the sale to take it in for a inspection before I buy it. I think if I buy used I will get a better deal and I could always buy used from a dealer too which they should have inspected it and made sure its in good condition already.

I really appreciate everyone's comments, I have learnt so much more about the newer sleds now