New factory short block?

[teeroy]

ad states he has owned it since new. I guess the cracked case must have come with jb weld on it from the factory. chit like this really pisses a guy off....sorry about your luck Barnes, maybe you have a small claims suit?

and shame on you Teth-Air....

 

[imdoo'n]

looks like it was well worn as in out. you not take a look before buying.


you payed way to much.

 

[Barnes]

So as much as i'll try and keep this from becoming a bitch fest.. i'd like to share with you the story of my introduction to sledding and to continue on with this post, how i came to find out i was scammed by someone on snow and mud.

Well last year, i took a snowmobile course with work, and enjoyed it very much.

Decided over the summer of 2010 that i would buy a sled for the upcoming season, after careful looking and searching the markets for several months, i came down to a couple different sleds i found all over alberta. One that i really liked because it had a new factory short block last season, and i was told the carb boots were updated. (i assumed when the engine was put in)

I drove down to Calgary with my roommate on the 31st of October, showed up kinda late on a sunday, but figured buying off a vendor on snow and mud, that i shouldn't be getting screwed over. I was wrong!

After riding it for 250kms, with one trip to the mountains (my roommates fiance rode it, as i was out of the province for Christmas)

The sled never seemed to run quite right, and being my first year of sledding, and wanting to ride as much as possible, i decided that ripping apart this "new factory shortblock" which was supposely installed last year, seemed like a waste of my time. Soo as any other sledder would do, i just kept riding it till she blew.

Went out on January the 18th, after having a bigger dump of snow here in Edmonton, and went out to my roommate's Fiance's farm to ride for a couple hours after work. Rode for about an hour and all of a sudden, the engine goes.. "CLACK, CLACK.. BOOM" and stops. We try and fix it in the feild that night (around 8pm) but without any luck, towed it back to the truck then drove back to the house.

Got it home and the next day pulled the top end apart, had a look and figured it only needed a Cylinder and a piston. Well yesterday afternoon finally decided to pull the motor out and found what you see in the 3rd picture (of the bottom end). AWESOME!

The thing is when i went down to buy the Sled, Chris (Teth-Air) told me he would not take anything less than $3500 for the sled as it had a new factory short block last season in it. So i took his word for it and picked up my first sled.

Wow what an experience this has been, I've been riding mountain bikes and dirt bikes for about 10 years now, and brought and sold ALOT of things over the internet, yes everything you buy used is just that.. USED..

But to buy a sled with a blown motor after being promised it was a new factory short block last year, it down right just wrong..Seriously.. is this what sledding has come down to.. everyone your suppose to be able to trust when your out on the mountains, helping people out on the trail... and i just got screwed over in someone's backyard.. Like i'd ever trust him to help me out on the trail.

I'm sure i can find more stuff to write about later, but i'll let you guys have this for lunch.. hope your lunch is better than my food for thought.

 

[Puba]

I will now post up (after calling the selling asking to talk to him, and being told by his family that he is out of town) the Kijiji ad i printed off when i was thinking about buying the sled, along with all the things he said he did to it. The second picture is all the things i've done to it since i picked it up in October.. somethings are just to set the sled up to me, but a few things on there.. make you wonder.

Ouch

 

[teeroy]

looks like it was well worn as in out. you not take a look before buying.


you payed way to much.

I remember seeing the ad for the sled, pretty sure it was listed here but I can't find the ad. sled looked very clean, and 3-3500 is ballpark for that sled. the OP was just getting into sledding as stated, so it's his fault he didn't know to pull the motor and look for repaired crankcase damage? he was lied to, plain and simple. would be nice to hear Teth Air's explaination as I'm sure he will want to respond....

 

[Turbo-North]

Well pretty simple he scammed him .Easy decision for me i will never do business with him or let anyone i know either!! There is no explanation for this he had to know the case was bad!!

 

[Barnes]

Yes, thank you Teeroy.. Was i really suppose to pull the engine when looking at the sled? I figured i could take a man's word for his work... He did tell me he blew out the bottom end on the sled, but had a new factory short block installed last season. Who would have thought by looking at the pictures that the bottom end did actually blow on the orginal motor? and that's what was in the sled when i bought it.

I will comment and say, i was the one who broke the starter recoil and choke cable (pulled on the starter recoil too hard and kicked off the choke lever when jumping back and forth over the sled), when i was riding 2 weeks prior to the engine going. But both were in rough shape to start with. Not sure if you guys can also see, but there was also a crack in the tunnel, but told it was not a stress crack and that it has been backed by 1/8th Aluminum plate. Like I said before.. USED is USED... and that's the chance i took buying something used. But to have been straight out lied to.. COME ON!

As for the engine after blowing it up a few weeks ago, i had emailed Chris and told him about it.

This is what he said.

"I got it from Ken at Mr. R’s in Milo but he has now sold out to a outfit in Lethbridge and it would be beyond 1 year now. I am surprised that you had a ring problem as these motors are not known for that other than some problems with early models. Did you run good oil? We always used synthetic. Did it get hot or run too high of RPM?

I have 1000 km’s on this season so far. Sorry you are having issues,


The best way to fix would be replace both pistons and hone the cylinders. If there is cylinder damage, you should get a re-manufactured exchange cylinder. Recreation Supply in Saskatchewan stock them and if you want parts, I know a guy with an account with them. His prices will be good. His Name Ken Baker @ Baker Performance, 403-272-9221 He also can rebuild if you are not comfortable but he is in Calgary.

Also it makes the job much easier if you order aftermarket cage style needle bearings for the top end of the connecting rods. This just holds all the needles together while re-installing rather than have them all loose.


Chris "

I replied back
"Well it seems we found the problem. How long ago were these carb boots "updated"?

and included a picture of the ripped carb boot i found, i'm sure everyone can picture it.

I guess it didn't over rev."

His response was "I can’t remember if I updated them on this machine, I know I checked them when the motor went in."

I asked him "Well Chris, you told me when i was buying the sled that they had been updated. What else didn't you do that you said you did? Do i have to check over EVERY nut and bolt on that sled now? Nonetheless I'm very disappointed with my introduction to sledding."

And the last i had heard from him was I told Ken Baker about this and he said you should call him as he has some carb boots for you. (cheap)"

Soo i guess i should be thankful for him offering to get me a cheaper $115 carb boot, to replace the $2600 i must now spend on this engine to get me riding again. After picking up the sled, for $3500 and dumping into it about $500 in parts to get it "Ready to ride" unlike he stated in his ad.. Buying all the riding gear.. I must now cough up another $2600 for a new engine. That puts me at $6600 for a 2003 Ski-doo Summit 800HO.. in which i could have picked up a Rev or almost an Xp sled..

Thanks again TETH-AIR.. to my wonderful introduction to sledding.

 

[oldskool]

not cool

 

[maxwell]

shortblock for that sled is 2000. not 2600

 

[imdoo'n]

i can understand your frustration, looks like most of the parts you bought were usual parts replacement. there is no way to tell when a crankshaft will let go, but you should get 3000+miles. that is no factory short block and if it was it was repaired by someone else.
if it was me i'd find a used motor and put it in. fix any damage you find and either ride it or sell it. sounds real worn out.

 

[maxwell]

is there a serial # stamped on the plate or "800HO"?

got a closeup of the repair?

the crank case damage is on the same side as the piston damage. how are the crank bearings?

are you sure its not a rod/crank bearing that let go causing this damage?

if the rod bearing and crank bearing are not loose on tha side that automatically says that damage was their previous.

 

[Barnes]

To add some detail to my "list of things i had to do to get it Ready to Ride"

- rear brake light switch broken ($50) (Yes i understand this is a Mountain Sled, and who really cares about the rear brake light actually working when you squeeze the brake lever, but when the wires are just "gooped" into the brake lever so they don't fall out, it just shows what kind of workmanship some people really have. I have since picked up a new switch and will wire it in, over the summer.
- replace cracked steering clamp ($40) (The steering clamp was cracked, and i was able to crack in half one of the hold downs.. because i overtightened it when installing my new bars.. but the base plate of the steering clamp being crack.. yes i know no one would have seen it unless pulling it apart. But once again, used is used.
- replace broken choke cable ($75) (Yes, i kicked off the lever, but the cable was in rough shape to start with)
- replace sliders ($50) (Sliders almost worn down completely in some spots)
- install new front shock ($50) (Just a set up item, picked up my roommate's front shock off his 09 XP and installed it, the sled rode awesome after this upgrade)
- weld up exhaust (Chris had given me this cheapo can, to install.. it was beat to phuk, but its good to know a welder.. made the sled REALLY loud. haha)
- fill up gas and oil (The sled came with barely any oil in the tank, and the gas tank was empty too, i guess just enough to ride it on to the sled deck and out of his backyard)
- replace bent handlebar ($70) (The bars always felt kinda funny, decided to replace them after measuring up with a tape that they were bent)
- stopper straps ripped to phuk ($50) (Yes, putting a 16" track in a sled that use to have a 15" track, is gonna have some clearance issues, but these things were ready to fall apart)
- extra tether ($60) (Just one of those things you gotta have in the back country)
- replace heavy springs (free) (Springs were set really really heavy.. sled would barely move when stepped on, once again, sled rode alot better after this upgrade too)
- replace starter recoil ($200) (My fault, but still have the old one around, will take some pictures so you guys can see the RTV that was put in place of whatever was worn.. once again, how did this sled make it the 250kms.. that i rode it)
- replace spark plugs and remove wrong spare plugs ($20) (Just a nice thing to have in a new machine.. a tune-up if you will.. but when i went to go put the old spark plugs in the "spare holder" i found a pair of complete different "spare plugs" in there.. i believe NGK's website said they were out of arctic cat.)
- replace carbides (free) (Carbides were soo worn down and bent, that when taking the sled off the truck for the first time.. it caught on the ramp on the way down and bent it even more. Should post up pictures of this too)
- install heated grips ($50) (Replace the bar.. replace the heated grips..)
- riser ($35) (Just getting the sled set up for me)
- change dirty chaincase fluid (free) (Probably should have been done, when the sled was sold.. but seriously what was i expecting...)
- replace broken spark plug wires ($100) (When replacing the plugs, i was able to pull off one of the wires off the boot.. once again USED is USED!)
- buy manual ($60) (guess i'm gonna need this to work on the sled.. and swap the engine)
- install mountain strap ($30) (Set up thing..)

Well hopefully that will give you a little better idea into what condition this sled was really in.. No i don't have the ad on here anymore.. i never printed it off and it was deleted by the time i was able to drive back home from Calgary to Edmonton with the sled.

Once again, Shame on you Teth-Air... I will likely be removing my Teth-Air system off my sled and trying to sell it to offset some of my costs..

 

[Barnes]

shortblock for that sled is 2000. not 2600

Yes, Martin Equipment quoted me $1900 for a new factory short block, plus a $700 Core.. and said depending on the conditon of the old engine, will depend on if i get back the $700. With the case being cracked, how it is.. I'm curious.

I will post up another close up of the crack/weld job on the case..

If anyone would love to see anymore pictures of this beauty.. i can take them.

 

[Doo800ho]

thats pretty sad when you can't trust people these days. I guess a man's word and hand shake don't mean sh!t any more. Buyer Beware.

 

[Barnes]

is there a serial # stamped on the plate or "800HO"?

got a closeup of the repair?

the crank case damage is on the same side as the piston damage. how are the crank bearings?

are you sure its not a rod/crank bearing that let go causing this damage?

if the rod bearing and crank bearing are not loose on tha side that automatically says that damage was their previous.

I will head outside shortly when i go to get my haircut and check for a serial number.

Yes, the crank case damage is on the same side as the damaged piston. The crank bearings seem good, that was our first guess that something let go.

Vanislerev on here, is my roommate and said the crank bearings felt good. I will let him post up when he has chance, his comments.

The rod bearing doesn't feel too good now on the blown side, but after blowing out that side.. what do you expect?

I think with all the cracks and the weld job, that there was some serious damage done before hand.

 

[imdoo'n]

you bought a used sled it will not be perfect, those items are a high ware item. you have to replace most of that stuff on a regular basis. the motor is the only area i can see you have any bitch about. you could have walked away from the sled, most would have, you can see how a sled was looked after by just the general appearance.
did you blow the crankshaft or just damage to the pistons and cylinders. can't tell from pics.

 

[teeroy]

you bought a used sled it will not be perfect, those items are a high ware item. you have to replace most of that stuff on a regular basis. the motor is the only area i can see you have any bitch about. you could have walked away from the sled, most would have, you can see how a sled was looked after by just the general appearance. you got snookered. part of the learning experience.

no way, in any scenario, does one deserve to be lied to. the wear items he probably had no idea about, as he is new to sledding and this is his first sled. isn't the motor enough to bitch about? he probably wouldn't have even posted about the sled if it wasn't for the motor being totally fawked and being lied to that it was new last year.

are you a friend of Chris?

 

[snowhound63]

shortblock for that sled is 2000. not 2600

I just put a new shortblock in my 2005 and like Maxwell says it was 1948.00 out the door, how ever it would have been 700 more if I didnt have a good core to return. Looking at this one core is pretty much shot. Also a new factory short block looks like a brand spanky new engine. That one looks like it was brand new in 2003 when the folks at Valcourt installed it. After reviewing the pics i noticed that it does not have a factory serial number plate like a factory one would, it is most likly a shortblock but it sure dont look like it was installed last year.

 

[Barnes]

you bought a used sled it will not be perfect, those items are a high ware item. you have to replace most of that stuff on a regular basis. the motor is the only area i can see you have any bitch about. you could have walked away from the sled, most would have, you can see how a sled was looked after by just the general appearance. you got snookered. part of the learning experience.

I totally agree with you. Like i said, i've been snookered before. (Remember the mountain bike and dirtbike comment?) Yes i totally could have walked away from it, but how far does a man's word really go now and days? Especially a vendor on this site. Does that mean if someone order's a Teth-Air system off his website that he will ship it out with all parts included? Will you trust him? Will you be able to get a warrenty if your part breaks?

I just wanted to share my experience with everyone, I don't feel i am bitching about anything, just asking questions, and making it public knowledge to my story. Yes i also agree alot of the other items, i posted up are wear items, things break.. i understand that. But seriously the engine? WELDED?

Say what you'd like, and make your opinion based on what you see.. Yes there is also always 2 sides to the story, i'm being honest with you on what i broke while riding it during the 3 months i've owned it.

Minus the small crack on the tunnel, the sled looked in good shape, Being a first time buyer, i was hoping the seller would have come up front with any problems he had, or repairs he that needed done as any honest man would have done!

Either way.. Teth-Air is a scammer... Anyone else who picked up one of the 3 sleds he sold during the fall... I'd be checking that thing over, EVERY NUT AND BOLT!

 

[imdoo'n]

no way, in any scenario, does one deserve to be lied to. the wear items he probably had no idea about, as he is new to sledding and this is his first sled. isn't the motor enough to bitch about? he probably wouldn't have even posted about the sled if it wasn't for the motor being totally fawked and being lied to that it was new last year.

are you a friend of Chris?

not at all. as i said he has a bitch about the motor, need i say more. the parts he replaced are his problem. now i'm asking if the crank is destroyed, can't see from the pics. he says it seems fine, wtf.