New 850 vs old antique T3

[rightsideup]

the T3 track is a great track however it is HEAVY. that's one thing you really notice about this G4 is how quickly this track spools

Hmm I tried to get someone to illustrate the same point about the polaris 2.6 vs the 3 to a polaris ambassador but his ego got in the way and he just said he was a better rider.....lol

 

[fredw]

Found the g4 revs quick, but does not give the get up and go that the t3 did.. Like the G4 was fighting itself to get on top while the 174 was quicker for making speed.. This was in chest deep snow where track footprint stood out

did numerous lines and the G4 was not able to go where t3 was, but then the skid is so dam tippy that it's a little harder to line up threw four foot trees at thirty mph in the steep..

end of day when your wore out, would be a great time to jump on G4 thou..

the T3 track is a great track however it is HEAVY. that's one thing you really notice about this G4 is how quickly this track spools

 

[RK Tek]

I don't disagree with you on how they handle, but after riding my 850 for 350 miles I jumped back on an xm and that's when I realized how much of an improvement the G4 is over the xm. It's just quicker, faster, lighter and requires less effort. To tell you the truth, I didn't like the G4 when I first rode it. It was to tippy and unstable. I also ride steep thick trees all day so maybe it becomes more obvious when you are aiming for 4' gaps between trees all day. With that being said, I really doubt we will ever see a new chassis from any brand that is a "game changer". Now it's just small improvements and refinements.

So here is a question.. Why is a sled that is more "tippy" a better sled? NEITHER sled requires extensive effort to get it to react... I think we can agree on that?? So why is the one that requires a little less effort considered better?

If you had a sled that you could push a button and it wold get on one ski... would that be a better sled?

Are sleds "worth" going to be measured by how tippy they are, how "easy" they react?

Kinda funny how the 1st ting that most do when they get on a sled at a show for the 1st time is try and tip it on its side. IMO how easy a sled tips on its side is not top criteria for how "good" of a sled it is.. IMO, it is about how the predictable the sled is AFTER you initiate a maneuver. NOT how easy it is to initiate the maneuver..

I think any of the new sleds are easy enough to ride..

 

[Rulonjj]

So here is a question.. Why is a sled that is more "tippy" a better sled? NEITHER sled requires extensive effort to get it to react... I think we can agree on that?? So why is the one that requires a little less effort considered better?

If you had a sled that you could push a button and it wold get on one ski... would that be a better sled?

Are sleds "worth" going to be measured by how tippy they are, how "easy" they react?

Kinda funny how the 1st ting that most do when they get on a sled at a show for the 1st time is try and tip it on its side. IMO how easy a sled tips on its side is not top criteria for how "good" of a sled it is.. IMO, it is about how the predictable the sled is AFTER you initiate a maneuver. NOT how easy it is to initiate the maneuver..

I think any of the new sleds are easy enough to ride..

Like it or not, the industry is going with more tippy chassis'. Why are the manufacturers going toward narrowing sleds up? Because narrow can also contribute to predictability. But wait, narrow makes things tip over easier. In my last post I talked about it being quicker. In my opinion the quickest reacting sled right now is the axys. It's also arguably the most predictable. Why is that? Predictability comes from the ability to react quicker to things under the snow that we can't see. If you're sidehilling and hit a spot of hard snow the xm would try to throw you down the hill. It always wanted to go back to flat. That is unpredictable. You never know how hard it will try to go down hill. With the 850, you hit a hard spot and instead of trying to go flat, it reacts quicker (tippy) and you can keep it in the hill better. IMO the 850 reacts similar to the axys in this situation. The xm reacts like an xp.


Easier is ALWAYS better. If it wasn't then why don't we all ride 2004 summits? Anyone can sidehill a sled with a 42" wide front end and it's predictable. But no one does anymore. If it takes all your energy to get the sled into a sidehill, you wear out a lot sooner and then you don't sidehill at all. The new sleds are all getting easier to tip up and yet they are even more predictable that the old sleds. What's not to love about that??

 

[RK Tek]

Like it or not, the industry is going with more tippy chassis'. Why are the manufacturers going toward narrowing sleds up? Because narrow can also contribute to predictability. But wait, narrow makes things tip over easier. In my last post I talked about it being quicker. In my opinion the quickest reacting sled right now is the axys. It's also arguably the most predictable. Why is that? Predictability comes from the ability to react quicker to things under the snow that we can't see. If you're sidehilling and hit a spot of hard snow the xm would try to throw you down the hill. It always wanted to go back to flat. That is unpredictable. You never know how hard it will try to go down hill. With the 850, you hit a hard spot and instead of trying to go flat, it reacts quicker (tippy) and you can keep it in the hill better. IMO the 850 reacts similar to the axys in this situation. The xm reacts like an xp.


Easier is ALWAYS better. If it wasn't then why don't we all ride 2004 summits? Anyone can sidehill a sled with a 42" wide front end and it's predictable. But no one does anymore. If it takes all your energy to get the sled into a sidehill, you wear out a lot sooner and then you don't sidehill at all. The new sleds are all getting easier to tip up and yet they are even more predictable that the old sleds. What's not to love about that??

I guess I respectfully disagree... I have had BOTH sleds on the SAME day on some very steep sidehills.. I find the XM more controllable .. Especially when you hit an unexpected piece of snow..

Easier, IMO, is not always better when you lose predictability as a result... The DOO chassis did not become so good until the T3.

Comparing it to the REV chassis is not relevant.

Again... this is NOT for 4' wide tree riding comparison.. But more like 6-7' tree riding and VERY steep ridge riding. Also, I might add, Chute pulling.. I know everybody thinks that LONG chute pulling is a thing of the past.. But it is still what gets my adrenaline going.. and the Gen 4 is not as controllable in the chute..

Once again.. stock for stock the Gen 4 wins everytime.. the slight trade-offs are worth it.. but the T3 with some added HP and better skis... get my vote.. for the time being anyway..

We also own an AXYS.. IMO.. (and others) LESS predictable over the Doo.. Just our findings.. But please keep in mind.. how many people have all 3 of these sleds on the hill at the same time and ride all 3 extensively not just a quick "try it out run"?

 

[Rulonjj]

I guess I respectfully disagree... I have had BOTH sleds on the SAME day on some very steep sidehills.. I find the XM more controllable .. Especially when you hit an unexpected piece of snow..

Easier, IMO, is not always better when you lose predictability as a result... The DOO chassis did not become so good until the T3.

Comparing it to the REV chassis is not relevant.

Again... this is NOT for 4' wide tree riding comparison.. But more like 6-7' tree riding and VERY steep ridge riding. Also, I might add, Chute pulling.. I know everybody thinks that LONG chute pulling is a thing of the past.. But it is still what gets my adrenaline going.. and the Gen 4 is not as controllable in the chute..

Once again.. stock for stock the Gen 4 wins everytime.. the slight trade-offs are worth it.. but the T3 with some added HP and better skis... get my vote.. for the time being anyway..

We also own an AXYS.. IMO.. (and others) LESS predictable over the Doo.. Just our findings.. But please keep in mind.. how many people have all 3 of these sleds on the hill at the same time and ride all 3 extensively not just a quick "try it out run"?

So I ride super tight and steep trees and you ride more open hills and chutes. That pretty much explains why we disagree. We aren't even comparing apples to apples in riding areas. I own an axys and an xm as well and I have ridden them all the same day and all that so it's not like I'm just guessing here. The axys was definitely the sled to beat in the trees. The xm can't really compare when it gets super deep and steep in the trees. It washes out to much. The G4 can give the axys a run for its money and is better in some ways but not all. I have more confidence on my 850 than I ever had or will have in my xm and so it's for sale. I'm glad you like the t3. I don't. I love my axys but it needs more power and it needs to be more durable. I've been fighting electrical issues a bunch lately so it will probably be up for sale soon too. If it sells I'm ordering another 850. Why? Because FOR ME it's the best sled hands down. It's the best combination of being the most predictable, the easiest to ride, the most effortless, and a ton of power on tap with unreal amount of traction. And here in a few years you won't be able to buy a t3 so why would I want to go back to that?

 

[kanedog]

[QUOTE.......VERY steep ridge riding. Also, I might add, Chute pulling.. I know everybody thinks that LONG chute pulling is a thing of the past.. [/QUOTE]

LONG steep(uh oh, I'm on the fine line between comingover backwards but I can't turnout cuz I'm on the razor thin line of "I hope I make this" near the crest)climbs is what keeps me in this sport. Nothing better.

 

[fredw]

Supper tight trees and and stepp is where the t3 stands out even more.. Riding the G4 in that is risky, predictable is what your after

now at end of day when your wore out, G4 all the way:d

So I ride super tight and steep trees and you ride more open hills and chutes. That pretty much explains why we disagree. We aren't even comparing apples to apples in riding areas. I own an axys and an xm as well and I have ridden them all the same day and all that so it's not like I'm just guessing here. The axys was definitely the sled to beat in the trees. The xm can't really compare when it gets super deep and steep in the trees. It washes out to much. The G4 can give the axys a run for its money and is better in some ways but not all. I have more confidence on my 850 than I ever had or will have in my xm and so it's for sale. I'm glad you like the t3. I don't. I love my axys but it needs more power and it needs to be more durable. I've been fighting electrical issues a bunch lately so it will probably be up for sale soon too. If it sells I'm ordering another 850. Why? Because FOR ME it's the best sled hands down. It's the best combination of being the most predictable, the easiest to ride, the most effortless, and a ton of power on tap with unreal amount of traction. And here in a few years you won't be able to buy a t3 so why would I want to go back to that?

 

[Rulonjj]

Supper tight trees and and stepp is where the t3 stands out even more.. Riding the G4 in that is risky, predictable is what your after

now at end of day when your wore out, G4 all the way:d

Not true. The t3 don't "stand out" from the 850 in any way, except it's easier on belts for some people. Most of us are having very good belt life from our 850's. I haven't blown a belt on my 850 yet. I wish I could say the same for my xm. 3 belts in one day, more than once. Anytime the snow got deep it would blow at least one belt. Not the case with my 850. But I digress. When I see a 163 t3 keep up to a 165 850 I'll admit it. So far all I've seen is talk about it but no proof. But I have seen a 850 walk a t3 so that's my experience with it.

 

[fredw]

I seen also the 174 work the 850, as well the other guys we were with.. Different snow maybe